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Chris Stewart for Paul Martin

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:17 AM
  #76
laufer72
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He still isn't an upgrade over Steen or McDonald. Kennedy wouldn't even make our top 9. Hell, even if we moved Stewart, he'd still have a hard time making our top 9.

Kennedy has still never taken over 100 faceoffs in a season. That leads me to believe he has played very little center.
All I said was that he can play as a center, I didn't count his faceoffs nor his TOI relative to the position.

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06-30-2012, 11:19 AM
  #77
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All I said was that he can play as a center, I didn't count his faceoffs nor his TOI relative to the position.
Fair enough.

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06-30-2012, 11:19 AM
  #78
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Would like to point out the Blues can add salary, but they will not be a cap team, according to Jeremy Rutherford.

Anyways, Stewart won't go anywhere. He had a down season. Remember, Stewart was great his first 20 games or so as a Blue. He just had a down season, that is all.

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06-30-2012, 11:22 AM
  #79
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But the blues fans need to realize Paul Martin is an elite dman probably top 10 in the entire league the only reason the pens need to move him is his salary.

Just ask any pens fan here.

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06-30-2012, 11:23 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Pittsburghs better than St Louis. Fluke season for St Louis and pittsburgh has been a better team forever. Last season was without Sid. With Crosby we would have been the top team in the league hands down. After we get Parise tmrw, we will be unstopable.


Yes, because the Blues playing with out McDonald, Steen, D'Agostini-to name a few- and still finishing 3rd overall in points total is a fluke?

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06-30-2012, 11:23 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by H a w k s View Post
But the blues fans need to realize Paul Martin is an elite dman probably top 10 in the entire league the only reason the pens need to move him is his salary.

Just ask any pens fan here.
Well geez, do you think Stewart will be enough for one of the ten best defensemen in the league?

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06-30-2012, 11:25 AM
  #82
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My gut says that Army wants a bigger, shooting type dman to put on one of the PP units. We haven't had someone who can shoot bombs from the blueline since Pronger and MacInnis, and it is a dimension that we could really use on the powerplay.

First choice will be Garrison, and if we can't get him, Army will try and find someone else that can give us that dimension on the powerplay.

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06-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #83
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Jackman played against simular competition and there is no Blues fan who will tell you Jackman is a top pairing guy. Heck, even Cola went head to head against teams top lines w/ Pie, but that still doesn't make him a top pairing guy.
You can take one element and say that these guys do the same, but save for physicality, there is just no way you can put these guys in the same bracket when it comes to overall package.

Jackman didn't play the same competiton, no. There was a major difference in QOC between Pietrangelo's pairing and Jackman's. As said, Martin played tougher competition than anyone else on the Pens.
Cola played 4 minutes less per game and didn't contribute to St.Louis PK.

Martin had about as many ES points as Cola and Jackman combined. That is of course because Pens scored a lot more, but also because he does join the offense and aids transition with his outlet passes.

While no-one would call Jackman and Cola 1st pairing D-men, Martin was a quasi number 1 on New Jersey ever since Rafalski left for Detroit. Doesn't make him a real number 1 (in my book) - they just didn't have anyone else - but he clearly played the part. Before he came to Pittsburgh, not a person on this forum would have considered Martin anything less than a top pairing D-man. The same after his first season with us. Now? Meaningless overreactions.

And that is ALL I am railing at in this thread. People can have any sort of reason to say that don't want him, and on many other teams, were I a fan of them, I would say the same for reasons of fit, finances, need of a PP contributor... whatever.

But the whole "not a top pairing D-man" is just bizarre. Outside of Suter, there is not a better defenseman in free agency this year.

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06-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by H a w k s View Post
But the blues fans need to realize Paul Martin is an elite dman probably top 10 in the entire league the only reason the pens need to move him is his salary.

Just ask any pens fan here.

Paul Martin is premier PMD in the league, weather you like it or not. The issues with his play (that are overblown anyways) are linked to the system Pens play. He's more suitable with defensive oriented systems, which are polar opposite of Pens system.

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06-30-2012, 11:34 AM
  #85
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We are not talking about New Jersey Martin, we are talking about the Martin that is getting older, and even if he is a top pairing dman in your opinion, I think it is safe to say, he won't be that caliber for much longer.

I'd rather have Jaybo's contract than Martin's.

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06-30-2012, 11:37 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
The guy's awesome. We don't even want to take him away from the Pens, whose defensive unit he improves.
Deflecting with hyperbole. Hard to argue with that!

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06-30-2012, 11:43 AM
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Deflecting with hyperbole. Hard to argue with that!
Don't confuse deflecting with outright rejecting.

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06-30-2012, 11:46 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Don't confuse deflecting with outright rejecting.
Why is Shero getting calls about an awful defenseman with an albatross contract?

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06-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
If you want Despres, give us Schwartz + or stop asking. Stewarts so overrated, its not even funny.
We're not the ones asking. We'll gladly stand pat here. We will not trade Stewart for Martin.

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06-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #90
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Why is Shero getting calls about an awful defenseman with an albatross contract?
What are "Questions at the bottom of the list of questions I care about," Alex? I care about the Blues. We don't want him on the Blues. I am in no way interested in debating Paul Martin's merit. We don't want him. If he's so great keep him. Seriously. Why would you want to give up someone good. You're happy having him, we're happy not having him. The end.

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06-30-2012, 11:52 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jeremyisgood View Post
Why is Shero getting calls about an awful defenseman with an albatross contract?
Same reason Feaster will be getting calls for Jaybo, they won't cost a lot of trade assets.

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06-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #92
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Why is Shero getting calls about an awful defenseman with an albatross contract?
PFFFFFTT............real GM's, what do they know?

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06-30-2012, 12:05 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jeremyisgood View Post
Why is Shero getting calls about an awful defenseman with an albatross contract?
If he is so awesome quit shoving him down our throats and keep him.

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06-30-2012, 12:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
Paul Martin is premier PMD in the league, weather you like it or not. The issues with his play (that are overblown anyways) are linked to the system Pens play. He's more suitable with defensive oriented systems, which are polar opposite of Pens system.
Naw that can't be true. I mean he sucks. It doesn't matter that his CORSI is comparable with other top pairing D in the league. He sucks and paying 5m for 3 years for a top PMD is god awful. Besides he's damn near over the hill. At 31 your career is almost over. I'd be surprised if he plays out his contract. I mean no one plays at a high quality into their early/mid 30's anymore.

If the Pens don't sign Suter I'd be quite content signing another D with some size (Allen?) to pair with Martin and keeping Martin for another year to see how his game improves.

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06-30-2012, 12:13 PM
  #95
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Naw that can't be true. I mean he sucks. It doesn't matter that his CORSI is comparable with other top pairing D in the league. He sucks and paying 5m for 3 years for a top PMD is god awful. Besides he's damn near over the hill. At 31 your career is almost over. I'd be surprised if he plays out his contract. I mean no one plays at a high quality into their early/mid 30's anymore.

If the Pens don't sign Suter I'd be quite content signing another D with some size (Allen?) to pair with Martin and keeping Martin for another year to see how his game improves.
So you say he is a top pairing dman right now, but you want to see how he can improve. Those two things do not go together.

Point is, we don't have interest in Martin, so you guess should be happy that you can keep your top pairing defender.

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06-30-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Pittsburghs better than St Louis. Fluke season for St Louis and pittsburgh has been a better team forever. Last season was without Sid. With Crosby we would have been the top team in the league hands down. After we get Parise tmrw, we will be unstopable.

The Blues were 2 points away from the Presidents trophy while playing without 2 of their top 3 scorers for a large part of the season (Mac and Perron). That's a fluke ? All the Blues young stars are maturing and ready to take the next step. They will be a 100+ point team for many years to come. Plus they have 2 of the top prospects in the world coming. Sorry chief, but the Blues future is much brighter than the Pens. Sidney is one hit away from never playing again.

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06-30-2012, 12:24 PM
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The Blues were 2 points away from the Presidents trophy while playing without 2 of their top 3 scorers for a large part of the season (Mac and Perron). That's a fluke ? All the Blues young stars are maturing and ready to take the next step. They will be a 100+ point team for many years to come. Plus they have 2 of the top prospects in the world coming. Sorry chief, but the Blues future is much brighter than the Pens. Sidney is one hit away from never playing again.
Oh, wow...........

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06-30-2012, 12:26 PM
  #98
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Oh, wow...........

Where do you disagree ?

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06-30-2012, 12:27 PM
  #99
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So you say he is a top pairing dman right now, but you want to see how he can improve. Those two things do not go together.

Point is, we don't have interest in Martin, so you guess should be happy that you can keep your top pairing defender.
Thats just it. The idea of keeping him doesn't phase me at all.

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06-30-2012, 12:31 PM
  #100
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Thats just it. The idea of keeping him doesn't phase me at all.
The idea that you think he is a top pairing dman and that he can improve just confused me.

I'm glad you are fine with keeping him.

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