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Chris Stewart for Paul Martin

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:48 AM
  #101
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The idea that you think he is a top pairing dman and that he can improve just confused me.

I'm glad you are fine with keeping him.
He had a bad season due to the Pens system. In fact half our D (Martin, Orpik & Michalek) had poor seasons due to the system they played this year, vs what they played last year. That doesn't mean he's a bad defenseman, or that he can't improve.

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06-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The idea that you think he is a top pairing dman and that he can improve just confused me.

I'm glad you are fine with keeping him.
Replace the improve with the adjust....

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06-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
He had a bad season due to the Pens system. In fact half our D (Martin, Orpik & Michalek) had poor seasons due to the system they played this year, vs what they played last year. That doesn't mean he's a bad defenseman, or that he can't improve.
Interesting that all 3 of the players that you mentioned are getting older.

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06-30-2012, 11:55 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Interesting that all 3 of the players that you mentioned are getting older.
Didn't know you could get younger

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06-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Where do you disagree ?
With bolded part I guess

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06-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #106
bleedblue1223
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Stewart's struggles really didn't have much to do with the system. When he first came here, he was banging in everything around the net, had a great burst of speed, went straight to the net, and had a few more of his great backhanded goals.

If he can get that burst of speed back and his confidence going, he will do just fine.

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06-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Didn't know you could get younger
I was about to say......is he implying all other d-man are getting younger?

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06-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Peasy View Post
Didn't know you could get younger
Well Benjamin Button could.

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:59 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
I was about to say......is he implying all other d-man are getting younger?
I'm implying that the reason all 3 of the players listed that had bad seasons had something more to do with age and not the system.

Players do tend to decline when they get older...

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Old
06-30-2012, 12:02 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I'm implying that the reason all 3 of the players listed that had bad seasons had something more to do with age and not the system.

Players do tend to decline when they get older...
29, 31, 31 is hardly old

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Old
06-30-2012, 12:04 PM
  #111
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Paul Martin sucks. Chris Stewart is worth way more than that bum. Too bad the Blues decided to drag Stewart through the mud this year lowering his value.

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06-30-2012, 12:06 PM
  #112
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Both players are junk, but Martin's contract is far less favorable than Stewart's.

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Old
06-30-2012, 12:07 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
29, 31, 31 is hardly old
Notice how I said they are getting older, meaning they are starting to decline. I didn't say that they are old now, so they must suck.

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06-30-2012, 12:10 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
So you say he is a top pairing dman right now, but you want to see how he can improve. Those two things do not go together.
I don't want to sound like a dick but how is this logical thinking at all? So I guess Pietrangelo has hit his peak then too since he's top pairing...

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06-30-2012, 12:14 PM
  #115
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Blues dont want martin still.

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06-30-2012, 12:22 PM
  #116
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STL keeps saying no.

No means No.


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Old
06-30-2012, 12:28 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
What are "Questions at the bottom of the list of questions I care about," Alex? I care about the Blues. We don't want him on the Blues. I am in no way interested in debating Paul Martin's merit. We don't want him. If he's so great keep him. Seriously. Why would you want to give up someone good. You're happy having him, we're happy not having him. The end.
I think this trade proposal is stupid, and regurgitated too much. I think the same thing of "LOL martin sux". I'd love Stewart on this team, though. If he gets a shot in your top 6, I bet he bounces back. But this fantasy, where Paul Martin is "bury him in the AHL" bad, is out of control.

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Old
06-30-2012, 12:29 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedFields07 View Post
I don't want to sound like a dick but how is this logical thinking at all? So I guess Pietrangelo has hit his peak then too since he's top pairing...
Really? That's the comparison that you are going to make? What's the next level after top pairing, top 30, then top 15, then Norris contender. Does anyone actually believe that Martin will be able to reach any of those levels at this point in his career.

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06-30-2012, 12:42 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremyisgood View Post
I think this trade proposal is stupid, and regurgitated too much. I think the same thing of "LOL martin sux". I'd love Stewart on this team, though. If he gets a shot in your top 6, I bet he bounces back. But this fantasy, where Paul Martin is "bury him in the AHL" bad, is out of control.
Then tell the people saying that?

The Blues aren't interested in a 5M/yr "bet he bounces back" project. You realize that would be the biggest contract on the team? We don't want him for free. We just don't want the guy. He doesn't have value to us. We would need to trade Stewart for something that has value to us. Do whatever you want with the guy, debate him amongst yourselves all you like, we just don't want him.

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06-30-2012, 12:44 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Really? That's the comparison that you are going to make? What's the next level after top pairing, top 30, then top 15, then Norris contender. Does anyone actually believe that Martin will be able to reach any of those levels at this point in his career.
Where are you even taking this? I wasn't comparing Martin and Pietro at all. I was only trying to point out your flawed logic that once you're a top pairing defenseman, you can't improve anymore.

The only reason I brought Pietro is because he's your team's top pairing guy. I could have just as easily used Letang, Weber, etc... to point out how wrong that way of thinking is

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06-30-2012, 12:45 PM
  #121
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The idea of Martin+ for Stewart really does have great potential for both teams. Hitchcock's system is exactly the kind of system Martin could return to form in, and the same can be said for Stewart in Pittsburgh's system. A trade might be the only way either of these two achieve what they're capable of.

At the end of the day, with each player excelling in their respective system, the upside of Stewart in Pittsburgh IMO will be greater than the upside of Martin in St. Louis. I think this is likely the reason I could see the Blues not doing the trade; also the reason why a more realistic trade is Martin+ for Stewart.

That being said, not making the trade and having both players under-perform in their current systems doesn't seem like the best option. I would find a way to make this trade happen if I'm either GM. If I'm Pittsburgh and I have defense stock-piled, I sacrifice a good player and a good prospect like Harrington. If I'm St. Louis and I have forwards stock-piled I realize my slight leverage in the situation and I try to get Martin and a REALLY good prospect like Morrow. Pittsburgh isn't interested in moving Morrow but it wouldn't hurt to start high.

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Old
06-30-2012, 12:49 PM
  #122
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedFields07 View Post
Where are you even taking this? I wasn't comparing Martin and Pietro at all. I was only trying to point out your flawed logic that once you're a top pairing defenseman, you can't improve anymore.

The only reason I brought Pietro is because he's your team's top pairing guy. I could have just as easily used Letang, Weber, etc... to point out how wrong that way of thinking is
Letang, Weber, and Pietrangelo all still have the potential to get significantly better. They are still on the up swing of their careers. Martin was also never on their level either.

Martin has already peaked. He is 31, so to say he is a top pairing defenseman and that you want to see how he can improve, it just doesn't go together. Martin won't be anything higher than what he is right now. If anything, he is going to decline. It's what happens when you start getting older.

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06-30-2012, 12:51 PM
  #123
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It absolutely has to be Paul Martin plus, but if the plus is a good asset, this is a trade that makes a ton of sense.

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06-30-2012, 12:53 PM
  #124
bleedblue1223
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Honestly, has there ever been a Blues fan in any of these threads that has displayed the slightest of interest in Martin? And that answer to that would be no.

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06-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Letang, Weber, and Pietrangelo all still have the potential to get significantly better. They are still on the up swing of their careers. Martin was also never on their level either.

Martin has already peaked. He is 31, so to say he is a top pairing defenseman and that you want to see how he can improve, it just doesn't go together. Martin won't be anything higher than what he is right now. If anything, he is going to decline. It's what happens when you start getting older.
I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. I guess I didn't read your comment the right way the first time; the context it was in made it seem like a "well if Martin is a top pairing defenseman, why does he need to improve?" retort.

Still though, I'm in agreement with a previous poster. I totally understand why the Blues wouldn't want Martin and that's fine. It's just when they use the excuse that he's not a top pairing defenseman that irks me.

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