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Quick look at next summer

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Old
06-29-2012, 10:08 PM
  #26
dkollidas
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Personally, next summer, I'd like to see the Sabres focus on getting a top notch goalie prospect. IF Enroth or another kid in the pipeline doesn't show something impressive this coming season.
Agreed. That's why I wouldn't mind if they attempted to make some kind of deal for Bernier, possibly including Enroth, to give LA a young, solid back-up, and put Bernier behind a very solid netminder who's established, in order to develop his game more.

Maybe something like Enroth & Brennan and a mid-round pick. I really don't think LA will get a huge return if they deal him for a proven skater, and if they do get a pick, it won't be in the league for a few years. Idk if that's what they'd be looking for, but just a thought.

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06-30-2012, 12:42 AM
  #27
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Players like Getzlaf and Perry will be available, but I'd REALLY like Alexander Edler to join back up with his old partner Ehrhoff. In fact I predict this right here, right now. Edler is a Sabre next summer. Top four will be top notch.
That would make me ridiculously happy

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06-30-2012, 02:30 AM
  #28
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That's probably because he was put in a favorable situation and failed to produce.
I disagree. He was put in a favorable situation and produced, then he was moved out of that favorable situation and it was all downhill from there. Ruff had one good line during the first games last year and he broke them up and more or less threw Adam to the wolfs.

That said, I never had much hope for Adam before last year, so to see him centering Vanek and Pommers was a rabbit out of the hat thing. And now as my expectations are even lower, Adam is of course very welcome to surprise me again.

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06-30-2012, 03:00 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Wisent42 View Post
I disagree. He was put in a favorable situation and produced, then he was moved out of that favorable situation and it was all downhill from there. Ruff had one good line during the first games last year and he broke them up and more or less threw Adam to the wolfs.

That said, I never had much hope for Adam before last year, so to see him centering Vanek and Pommers was a rabbit out of the hat thing. And now as my expectations are even lower, Adam is of course very welcome to surprise me again.
That's not true.
He was taken off the top line, but he was given the easiest defensive matchups and the most offensive zone starts of anyone on the team, which should lead to offense, but he produced almost nothing.

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06-30-2012, 03:11 AM
  #30
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That's not true.
He was taken off the top line, but he was given the easiest defensive matchups and the most offensive zone starts of anyone on the team, which should lead to offense, but he produced almost nothing.
If that's true, then I fold.

But I still don't get why he was taken off the top line. Why break up the one line that was actually working?

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06-30-2012, 03:12 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
That's not true.
He was taken off the top line, but he was given the easiest defensive matchups and the most offensive zone starts of anyone on the team, which should lead to offense, but he produced almost nothing.
Not to mention Ruff left him on the top line even when he stopped performing for a good 4-5 games before pulling him off. I'm sorry but that is patience for a guy who wasn't supposed to even make the roster. I view him the same as I did last season but now Grigs and Girgs, Catenacci and Sundher are on their way up and Adam has a lot of work to do. Last season may have been his shot and if they don't give him another then Byron him out of the way so others can get a shot. There's 2 prospects ahead of him now and 2 kids on the active roster. Move him to wing or move him to Calgary, don't make a difference to me he is out of my center plans.

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06-30-2012, 05:10 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Not to mention Ruff left him on the top line even when he stopped performing for a good 4-5 games before pulling him off. I'm sorry but that is patience for a guy who wasn't supposed to even make the roster. I view him the same as I did last season but now Grigs and Girgs, Catenacci and Sundher are on their way up and Adam has a lot of work to do. Last season may have been his shot and if they don't give him another then Byron him out of the way so others can get a shot. There's 2 prospects ahead of him now and 2 kids on the active roster. Move him to wing or move him to Calgary, don't make a difference to me he is out of my center plans.


Staying with the same line where he produced great for another 4-5 games while not producing is patience with a rookie? Wow. What about Leino? Boyes? How come these guys at over $4mill each get game after game with PP minutes and so on? Boyes underperformed for exactly the entire season. THAT'S patience!

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06-30-2012, 08:28 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Wisent42 View Post


Staying with the same line where he produced great for another 4-5 games while not producing is patience with a rookie? Wow. What about Leino? Boyes? How come these guys at over $4mill each get game after game with PP minutes and so on? Boyes underperformed for exactly the entire season. THAT'S patience!
The real nail in the coffin was probably the number of blown defensive assignments he had. There was no chances coming off his stick or his setups AND he was late or out of position or too gassed to get back resulting directly to goals against. Watching him coast on the backcheck when his man is scoring on Miller in the home opener? I'm surprised he wasn't sent down that night.

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06-30-2012, 08:36 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I know, a lot can happen in a year, but I just wanted to point out how good Buffalo will be sitting next summer. They have the following contract situations...

RFAs - Hodgson, Adam, Weber, Enroth. Only Hodgson might cost more than 2 mil per, and Adam and Weber aren't even needed.

UFAs - Roy (replaced by Grigorenko), Ellis (anyone), Regehr (McNabb), Leopold (Brennan), Sulzer (Weber). That's over 12 mil off the books, and only Sulzer might be worth re-signing.

So with over 7 mil in cap space this summer (after Ennis and Kaleta re-sign) and another 12 mil off the books next summer, and another likely increase in the cap ceiling of 4-6 mil, that would total about 23-25 mil. Take away the money to re-sign or call up other players and Buffalo should still have in the range of 18-20 mil to work with next summer, and won't lose anyone critical in the process.

Start making your UFA wish list now...lol.
you really hate this team, don't you?

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06-30-2012, 08:56 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Wisent42 View Post


Staying with the same line where he produced great for another 4-5 games while not producing is patience with a rookie? Wow. What about Leino? Boyes? How come these guys at over $4mill each get game after game with PP minutes and so on? Boyes underperformed for exactly the entire season. THAT'S patience!
He could have sent Adam back to Roc the first bad game, but he didn't he kept giving him opportunities and when he couldn't justify the top line minutes any longer he gave him third line minutes and finally fourth line minutes and still Adam was no where to be found. Now there's a half dozen prospects fighting for that spot and given The value of Grigs and Girgs and what they gave up for Hodgson, Adam has an up hill battle. Move him to wing or trade him as a center.

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06-30-2012, 02:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
you really hate this team, don't you?
Huh? Did that come across as hate for those players? I like most of them, but for their cap hit they can either be adequately replaced by call-ups or by UFA signings for better players - even if the new cap hit is higher.

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06-30-2012, 03:50 PM
  #37
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Huh? Did that come across as hate for those players? I like most of them, but for their cap hit they can either be adequately replaced by call-ups or by UFA signings for better players - even if the new cap hit is higher.
You cant seem to wait for like an entirely new team to surface. I admit, I throw up a little bit in my mouth when I see leino out there. But other than that I like the team.

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06-30-2012, 04:46 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
You cant seem to wait for like an entirely new team to surface. I admit, I throw up a little bit in my mouth when I see leino and Hodgson out there. But other than that I like the team.
There ya go

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06-30-2012, 05:51 PM
  #39
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You cant seem to wait for like an entirely new team to surface. I admit, I throw up a little bit in my mouth when I see leino out there. But other than that I like the team.
No I like the team also. I don't think a big overhaul is necessary. I just happen to think that group of UFAs coming up is a group we can manage to be without and do better with their cap space.

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06-30-2012, 06:05 PM
  #40
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The fact that Luke Adam was invisible in Rochester after his demotion says much. If he is indeed NHL caliber, he should have lit up the AHL this year. I'm ready to move on in a Mark Mancari fashion.

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06-30-2012, 06:15 PM
  #41
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You cant seem to wait for like an entirely new team to surface. I admit, I throw up a little bit in my mouth when I see leino out there. But other than that I like the team.
For all the talk you make about this team needing championship caliber players (IE: big players who hit), the current core has none of that. So I thought you wouldn't like the team very much.

This team has achieved nothing in the 5 years since the Briere, Drury days. Literally nothing, how much longer do you want to wait for this core to bring it? I'm all for moving all the pieces of the core as long as the returns are adequate. I like our players, but that doesn't mean anything after years and years of failure, get these guys out and let the kids take this team over.

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06-30-2012, 08:04 PM
  #42
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That's not true.
He was taken off the top line, but he was given the easiest defensive matchups and the most offensive zone starts of anyone on the team, which should lead to offense, but he produced almost nothing.
Wow , talk about spinning things


Couple of points.

1) Adam DID NOT have more offensive zone starts than anyone on the team. It would be mathematically impossible for Adam in 52gms to have had more. There is a difference between total number of offensive starts and percentage of starts. Adam started 57.7% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Its not the same thing and I know you know that.

For comparison sake , using Sabre forwards playing 20gms or more

1. Hecht ---> 57.8%
2. Adam ----> 57.7%
3. Ennis -----> 57.5%
4. Stafford --> 55.1%
5. Leino -----> 54.5%
6. Vanek ----> 54.2%
7. Pommer --> 54%


Adam's 57.7% offensive zone starts is hardly the out of whack anomaly you're trying to portray it as.

2. Nobody on this team, other than Vanek/Pommer, was producing offense in the 52gms Adam played in.

1. Pommer --> 54gms 19g 31a 50pts
2. Vanek ----> 50gms 19g 22a 41pts
3. Roy ------> 52gms 10g 16a 26pts
4. Stafford --> 53gms 9g 16a 25pts
5. Gerbe ----> 42gms 5g 14a 19pts
6. Adam -----> 52gms 10g 10a 20pts
7. Ennis -----> 19gms 4gm 3a 7pts
8. Hecht ----> 22gms 4g 4a 8pts
9. Leino ----> 42gms 4g 11a 15pts
10. Boyes --> 40gms 3g 10a 13pts
11. Goose --> 47gms 6g 9a 15pts
12. Kaleta --> 37gms 5g 2a 7pts

3. Adam hardly played after his demotion from the top line. He was essentially a 4th liner for well over half of his 52gms (possible 2/3rds).

- He averaged just under 15mins (14:48) a night in his first 16 games (in those 16gms 5g 8a 13pts).
-He averaged roughly 11:30 the rest of the way.
- averaged 10-11min his last 14gms.



Bottom line is, after Adam was removed from the top line. He was hardly in a great position or setup to be producing offense since no one was. Its a bit ridicuous to try and single out a rookie for not scoring when almost no one around him was either and he still outscored most of them.

Even with zero points in his last 20gms and only 1 pt in his last 25gms, Adam was still 6th in ppg and 3rd in goals among forwards up to the point of the season.


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06-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #43
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He's got to improve in whatever way he can. If he's not scoring, his footspeed, d-zone coverage and backchecking are pretty much rubbish. He's large but not physical. The wheels came off about as badly as we've seen for a Sabre prospect in many a year, the fall from penthouse to outhouse was dramatic. That said, adversity is often a fine motivator. I'm interested to see if he's worked on his skating to the point that he's not laboring to keep up -- the easier he can get around, the less energy he's going to have to use getting into scoring position or getting back on the backcheck, the more he will be able to do it.

And it would be nice to see him do something a bit more like his training buddy Clowe and finish his checks. Stop being a *****, use the stocky build and rub a man out more than once a month. Again, something that would benefit from quicker feet and a more efficient stride -- getting there and being able to finish it without worrying about being slow to get back. So much of his game could improve if he can get a little bit (or a lot a'bit) more out of his skating.

He's thickly built, has a long reach and knows how to get into areas to score. We've seen that he knows what to do in tight. Can he pick himself up, dust himself off, and bounce back? It remains to be seen. At this point, he has to re-prove himself.
I think the bolded statement is the most important thing to watch regarding Adam. If he comes to camp improved in some way, it's a sign that this situation motivated him. If he then plays well enough to make the roster again, there's another sign. And then we'll see how he does. And so on.

I think Adam can be a valuable scoring winger for the Sabres if motivated to improve. We'll all see soon enough.

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06-30-2012, 08:11 PM
  #44
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I have completely written off Adam with the Sabres. Higher odds than Zaprapan and Kriukov, but still LOW.

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06-30-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Wow , talk about spinning things


Couple of points.

1) Adam DID NOT have more offensive zone starts than anyone on the team. It would be mathematically impossible for Adam in 52gms to have had more. There is a difference between total number of offensive starts and percentage of starts. Adam started 57.7% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Its not the same thing and I know you know that.
While I don't know if it's accurate or not, he was talking about a very specific time period wherein Adam was given the most offensive zone starts: between leaving the 1st line and his fall down to the 4th.

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06-30-2012, 08:29 PM
  #46
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While I don't know if it's accurate or not, he was talking about a very specific time period wherein Adam was given the most offensive zone starts: between leaving the 1st line and his fall down to the 4th.
No he wasn't. He was refering to his entire time with the Sabres.

He can correct me if I'm wrong.


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06-30-2012, 08:33 PM
  #47
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Well since this has become the Luke Adam thread, maybe he battles in camp for the spot that we see as the biggest current need (wing on the Hodgson-Vanek line). I realize they wouldn't be a fast line, but who knows, maybe it can get some chemistry going???

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06-30-2012, 08:35 PM
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No he wasn't.
Are you me or something?
Unless you are, you have no way of knowing whether I meant that or not.

Rob Paxon is correct in his thinking though.

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06-30-2012, 08:43 PM
  #49
joshjull
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Are you me or something?
Unless you are, you have no way of knowing whether I meant that or not.

Rob Paxon is correct in his thinking though.
Common sense would tell me your assertion holds no merit. Feel free to actually back it up with some numbers. He was essentially relegated to the 3b or 4th line very soon after leaving the top line. So do tell when this supposed stretchs of games took place AND where you got the numbers to make this assertion.

I made some points debunking your arguement in a previous post so I wont repeat them here.


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06-30-2012, 08:55 PM
  #50
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Common sesne would tell me your assertion holds no merit. Feel free to actually back it up with some numbers. He was essentially relegated to the 3b or 4th line very soon after leaving the top line. So do tell when this supposed stretchs of games took place AND where you got the numbers to make this assertion.

I made some points debunking your arguement in a previous post so I wont repeat them here.
I got it from the player usage charts posted here a couple weeks back.
This particular assertion was made by Derek Jedamski (Buffalo_87 on here, part of this blog).
I trust his evaluation is correct as he is very knowledgeable in this field and the charts weren't published by a bunch of nobodies (it was spearheaded by Robert Vollman of Hockey Prospectus and Hockey Abstract and had many notable people contribute to it), so one would think that content published within it would be accurate.

Here's the excerpt:
Quote:
Many people are of the belief that Luke Adam was not put in a position to succeed and thus, was unfairly demoted by the organization. On the first point, Adam began the season between the team’s two best forwards in Thomas Vanek and Jason Pominville. Over his 52 games in Buffalo only Jochen Hecht started in the offensive zone more often than Adam (by 0.1% despite just a 22 game sample size for Hecht) and only McCormick and Ellis faced easier competition among forwards. Despite the advantages he received, Adam only managed to produce 9 points in his final 41 games and 0 points in his final 20 games in Buffalo. Breaking his season down into 13 games sections, you can see the obvious decline:
Games 0-13: 4 G - 7 A - 11 P – 29 SOG
Games 14-26: 5 G - 2 A - 7 P – 21 SOG
Games 27-39: 1 G - 1 A - 2 P – 20 SOG
Games 40-52: 0 G - 0 A - 0 P – 19 SOG
Not only did his production go down after the first 13 games but also his shot rate decreased steadily. Despite being provided with these advantages (favorable ice-time), he simply failed to produce outside the first 20 games. He may of experienced a bit of bad luck with the Sabres as the team’s shooting percentage with Adam on the ice was only 7.49%, despite his personal shooting percentage of 11.2%.

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