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Old
06-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
If between 15-20 of their games this season isn't enough to form an opinion, I guess you're right.
It clearly isn't, because 60 says you're wrong.

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06-30-2012, 03:09 PM
  #27
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8 million cap hit? Pass.

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06-30-2012, 03:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Semin has good numbers because his line spends a lot of time in the offensive zone. When you're playing with AO, Backstrom and Johansson, that's not exactly difficult to imagine. Who's he going to play with in Buffalo that would have that kind of constant offensive pressure?

You're kidding yourself if you think he's any kind of good two way player. If he were, he'd average more than 0:00 shorthanded TOI/G.
So what you're saying is that Semin drives possession when he's on the ice. Gosh, what a terrible thing. Semin's Relative Corsi was better than Backstrom's and OV's, so maybe you should say they got to play with Semin and not vice versa.

He's a good two-way player. If you don't want to give home a huge contract, fine, but you're not giving accurate reasons.

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06-30-2012, 03:39 PM
  #29
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Semin has better playoff per game numbers then our captain.

I think he would be a clear upgrade to Stafford as our #2 RW. And an offense line of Vanek - Grigs - Semin is intriguing. While everyone is kicking the tires on Nash, Parise, Ryan the Sabres should be wherever Semin is with a contract ready.

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06-30-2012, 03:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Back on topic -

What Regier should do is explain to Parise's agent about how much cap space Buffalo will have next summer. Explain that if Parise signs a two year deal in Buffalo for the cap space they have right now (about 7.5-8.0 mil, same as Pitt's offer), next summer Buffalo will sign him to an extension that provides a raise into the range of 8.5 mil, for another 8 years.

Parise alone might not be worth 8.5 mil, but what Parise can do to provide a legit top scoring line that also causes mis-matches down the depth chart IS worth it. After another couple years of the salary cap increasing, 8.5 mil won't seem too bad either.
Parise is worth NOWHERE near 8 million. At most I would pay 6.5 for the guy and that's pushing it. He's a glorified grinder.

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06-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Parise is worth NOWHERE near 8 million. At most I would pay 6.5 for the guy and that's pushing it. He's a glorified grinder.
Ya Glorified grinders score 4 straight 30 + goal seasons including a 45 goal season and in 5 of his 6 full NHL seasons he has put up 60 plus points the only year he didn't was his rookie season. Ya glorified grinder he is

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06-30-2012, 04:06 PM
  #32
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I'm pretty torn on whether or not I'd support a Semin signing. The guy is one of the most talented players in the world and has an absolutely unbelievable shot, plus I think it'd be really good to have another Russian guy on the team for Grig. On the other hand, he never really seemed all that motivated playing on a contender with one of the best Russians in the NHL on his team, so it's hard to imagine him motivated after getting a fat contract. Semin seems like a player Lindy would absolutely hate after a while, too. Just don't think the reward outweighs the risk.

edit: I guess to contribute something the thread was actually about, I'd say go for it, Pegula's sales pitch has worked out pretty well and they could bring Drew Stafford along for the ride, but the whole 'completely focus on one player who seems like an unrealistic target' thing just doesn't sound like Darcy.


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Old
06-30-2012, 04:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Ya Glorified grinders score 4 straight 30 + goal seasons including a 45 goal season and in 5 of his 6 full NHL seasons he has put up 60 plus points the only year he didn't was his rookie season. Ya glorified grinder he is
You okay with paying 8 million a year for the guy?

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06-30-2012, 04:42 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Parise is worth NOWHERE near 8 million. At most I would pay 6.5 for the guy and that's pushing it. He's a glorified grinder.
Yea, and McCormick is an underrated sniper

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06-30-2012, 04:52 PM
  #35
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As someone who admittedly hasn't caught many Caps games in recent years, how is Semin's work ethic?

They want to score more. Semin would help. But I'm not sure he makes Buffalo anymore difficult to play against.

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06-30-2012, 05:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
You okay with paying 8 million a year for the guy?
I am. I'd throw 7 at Suter too. There are only a few UFAs available this year that are difference makers. Looking to next summer there are only a few again and many of them are likely to be signed before they reach the market. As the cap continues to rise and the number of long term contracts grows you're going to probably see less and less hit the market. If everyone is fighting for 2-3 each offseason, you try to sign them when they are available and hope you get one every once and a while.

Yes, you have to "overpay", but there are other ways to make cap space. Some moves will add assets on top of creating space and some will just create space (thank you, Terry!). If you don't sign the top players in free agency, you're going to pay through the nose in assets and almost as much in cap space to acquire them through trades. And then the assets you give up can become top players that are either signed to long term contracts with the new team or you have to overpay to get when and if they hit free agency.

Signing guys like Parise in free agency not only help because of their talent (and leadership in Parise's case) but they also maintain your young assets to make trades or develop. Its also cheaper to sign your own players and easier to keep them when they are top players. And if you develop top players you can't afford you move them along for more assets.

If he'll sign with us, its a no brainer.

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06-30-2012, 05:12 PM
  #37
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Why? He's not significantly better than Rick Nash (if at all) and everyone keeps yapping about how horrible that contract is. What makes those two deals so different?

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06-30-2012, 05:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Why? He's not significantly better than Rick Nash (if at all) and everyone keeps yapping about how horrible that contract is. What makes those two deals so different?
Horrible contract and still garnering interest despite Howson's inflated asking price. The reason I want Parise more, is because he costs only money. With Terry especially, and when trying to build a regular contender, assets are worth more than money.

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06-30-2012, 05:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Horrible contract and still garnering interest despite Howson's inflated asking price. The reason I want Parise more, is because he costs only money. With Terry especially, and when trying to build a regular contender, assets are worth more than money.
So if Rick Nash was a free agent, you'd sign him to the contract he has at present?

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06-30-2012, 05:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
So if Rick Nash was a free agent, you'd sign him to the contract he has at present?
Yes. You don't think losers in the Parise sweepstakes are going to give up some significant pieces to take him and his contract off of Howson's hands? Free agency I would certainly give him his deal. Look at Detroit and Pittsburgh. They have two of the best teams in the league and have room to attempt to sign Suter and Parise. We may also and we can make it work for now and have even more space going forward.

EDIT: The only hesitation I may have is if information I'm gathering about the CBA talks would change my ability to improve the team. If the business rules change and limit the long term contracts or the way the cap is affected by long term contracts or whatever, I may change my mind. Currently I have very little hesitation.

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06-30-2012, 05:31 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
You okay with paying 8 million a year for the guy?
Pretty sure I never said that just that he isn't a grinder but it also looks like everyone has already jumped on here to agree with me

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06-30-2012, 05:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
As someone who admittedly hasn't caught many Caps games in recent years, how is Semin's work ethic?

They want to score more. Semin would help. But I'm not sure he makes Buffalo anymore difficult to play against.
If you get Semin then focus on getting a tougher to play against center for Roy, someone like Ott.

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06-30-2012, 08:28 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
They are supposedly very good friends and Stafford will be a groomsman in his wedding this summer. If nothing else, I should get our foot in the door and have our offer heard. Beyond that Parise will obviously choose whats best for him. Assuming of course, Regier has him as a top priority.
I think the most realistic benefit there is similar to guys like Leopold in relation to Regehr. That is, a guy they know well who they trust on our team. If Stafford has good things to say Parise will believe him and factor that in. That's about the extent of it, imo. I'm sure they've both talked plenty about their organizations before in previous summers.

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06-30-2012, 08:33 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Semin has good numbers because his line spends a lot of time in the offensive zone. When you're playing with AO, Backstrom and Johansson, that's not exactly difficult to imagine. Who's he going to play with in Buffalo that would have that kind of constant offensive pressure?

You're kidding yourself if you think he's any kind of good two way player. If he were, he'd average more than 0:00 shorthanded TOI/G.
He does NOT spend all his time with Backstrom and Ovechkin. He has spent plenty of time with them -- during which time both of those guys performed better by the way, but he spends more time with much lesser players.

As I said in the Summer Moves #5 thread I am going to make some tables of advanced stats for Parise, Semin, Ryan, Nash, and Vanek. The idea there is to compare our top offensive player with similar players in Ryan and Nash and see what the deal is there, and compare reasonable targets of Parise, Semin, and Ryan. Guys who think Semin is completely one-dimensional or doesn't have a positive effect on his linemates will be surprised. Of course, that's no reason to completely want him (pause), but at least be fair with the guy.

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06-30-2012, 08:35 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Parise is worth NOWHERE near 8 million. At most I would pay 6.5 for the guy and that's pushing it. He's a glorified grinder.
Crosby is also a glorified grinder. I'm not saying that as an insult but in a sense that is really what is at the heart of his game. Both players are very similar in that way. They play very technically sound games that no coach will ever have a problem with. They win almost every battle. They have a positive effect on their teammates.

8 million is an overpayment but he's going to get it if he wants it.

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06-30-2012, 08:47 PM
  #46
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I'm OK with $8M per year for Parise. I think he's the right fit in terms of scoring, playing all 200, team chemistry, and leadership.

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06-30-2012, 08:53 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
If you get Semin then focus on getting a tougher to play against center for Roy, someone like Ott.
I think they should work o that regardless of signing Semin or not. I think Dallas does want to make a splash, but I think they'll fall short, which could put Ott or Morrow on the block. And yes, I'd trade Roy straight up for either one of those two, and would even add a prospect/pick to get Ott, please.

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06-30-2012, 08:54 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I'm OK with $8M per year for Parise. I think he's the right fit in terms of scoring, playing all 200, team chemistry, and leadership.
You build the foundation of a team down the middle, on defense and in net. Wing is last place I would want to spend 8mil, particularly when we already have a 7+mil winger.

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Old
06-30-2012, 09:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Crosby is also a glorified grinder. I'm not saying that as an insult but in a sense that is really what is at the heart of his game. Both players are very similar in that way. They play very technically sound games that no coach will ever have a problem with. They win almost every battle. They have a positive effect on their teammates.

8 million is an overpayment but he's going to get it if he wants it.
I agree with your assessment. Would you be okay with paying him 8 million a year though? If his production doesn't go back to the 70+ pts, does his play really warrant one of the largest paid contracts in the NHL?

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06-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You build the foundation of a team down the middle, on defense and in net. Wing is last place I would want to spend 8mil, particularly when we already have a 7+mil winger.
You're right. I still think the money is well spent on Parise. He's a complete player that the exact type of player for this team, in particular, on the ice and in the locker room.

I value the mental construct of the team and team chemistry more than I do positional construction. Though I do recognize its high importance.

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