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The even-strength numbers for the Oilers so far ...

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Old
11-29-2003, 02:56 PM
  #1
igor*
 
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The even-strength numbers for the Oilers so far ...

Just for the helluvit ... this is how the Oilers players have fared at even-strength play this year.

EV+ is the number of goals the Oilers scored when said player was on the ice during 5on5 and 4on4 play.

EV- and EV+/- follow the same logic.

The number in blue is average even-strength ice-time per game.

.

PLAYER _____ EV+ ____ EV- ___ EV+/- _____ ES Icetime

YORK _______ +16 _____ -6 ____ +10 ________ 12.4
DVORAK _____ +14 _____ -6 _____ +8 ________ 13.1
TORRES _____ +14 _____ -8 _____ +6 ________ 10.2
PISANI _____ +12 _____ -6 _____ +6 ________ 11.1
MOREAU _____ +12 _____ -7 _____ +5 ________ 11.1
STOLL _______ +7 _____ -2 _____ +5 ________ 10.1
REASONER ____ +8 _____ -4 _____ +4 ________ 11.2
SARNO _______ +3 _____ -1 _____ +2 _________ 8.3
ISBISTER ____ +9 _____ -8 _____ +1 ________ 11.0
SALMELAINEN _ +3 _____ -3 _____ +0 ________ 11.7
OATES _______ +0 _____ -1 _____ -1 _________ 9.6
CHIMERA _____ +6 _____ -8 _____ -2 _________ 9.5
LARAQUE _____ +2 _____ -4 _____ -2 _________ 8.4
SMYTH ______ +13 ____ -17 _____ -4 ________ 13.4
HEMSKY ______ +9 ____ -15 _____ -6 ________ 10.6
HORCOFF _____ +3 ____ -13 ____ -10 ________ 12.2

SMITH ______ +22 ____ -12 ____ +10 ________ 16.7
BERGERON ___ +15 _____ -7 _____ +8 ________ 13.2
STAIOS _____ +19 ____ -14 _____ +5 ________ 17.6
FERGUSON ___ +13 _____ -9 _____ +4 ________ 12.6
BREWER _____ +10 ____ -13 _____ -3 ________ 15.9
SEMENOV _____ +1 _____ -5 _____ -4 ________ 14.6
CROSS _______ +9 ____ -14 _____ -5 ________ 14.9


Any thoughts?

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Old
11-29-2003, 03:00 PM
  #2
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IMO +/- stats are very reliable and really are an indicator to who has been playing the most consistently at both ends of the rink. THe numbers speak for themselves. Smyth, Hemsky, and Horcoff are well on the negative side of the ledger whereas guys like York, Torres, Dvorak, Moreau, Pisani, Reasoner are well on the plus side. IMO the players that are minus have been the biggest underachievers this year - especially 5 on 5. Smyth and Hemsky have been nonexistent threats 5on5 and have produced little or no offense in these situations. To me their numbers flatter how they have actually played thus far this season. It is clear to see who needs to improve and who is playing up to par.

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11-29-2003, 03:01 PM
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Mr Sakich
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laraque and horcoff are not lowe's guys. He inherited them. I can see him shopping these two because they really aren't helping much. SMyth's numbers are forgiveable because he is playing a new position.

Where would we be if lowe hadn't have traded for york, devo, and torres?

The number that really jumps out at me is stoll.

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11-29-2003, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
laraque and horcoff are not lowe's guys. He inherited them. I can see him shopping these two because they really aren't helping much. SMyth's numbers are forgiveable because he is playing a new position.

Where would we be if lowe hadn't have traded for york, devo, and torres?
I am sick of people babying Smyth through his "new position". He has been aweful all year! If he couldn't hack the new position then play wing and keep Sarno if it is that bad. He is playing emotionless, no energy, no desire, nothing. He is losing battles, getting knocked off the puck and to the ice at every turn, and accomplishing nothing at either end of the rink. he is now 5th on the team in scoring with most of his points coming early in the season or on the PP and lower than 100th in the league. For a guy that is supposed to be the Oilers "best player" he certainly isn't living up to expectations. He hasn't been close. Oates played his first game in approx 6 months out of position with the two biggest plugs Horcoff and Laraque) and created more offensively than Smyth has all year. Smyth also played wing with Oates and Hesmky in the 2nd and with York and Dvorak in the 3rd and with either combination looked disinterested and useless. Quit making excuses for him - he is flat out not playing anywhere near potential. When will these excuses end and people actually understand that he isn't earning his pay check.

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11-29-2003, 03:48 PM
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Well, I'm beginning to feel like Horcoff's dad but traditionally he's been splendid 5x5. Clearly he's not playing at his established level, and hopefully he'll come out of it.

I just completely disagree with the idea Smyth has been horrible all season. He hasn't been our best player, and he should be that I'll give you.

However, he's still a quality NHL player who can put points on the board.

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11-29-2003, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
laraque and horcoff are not lowe's guys. He inherited them. I can see him shopping these two because they really aren't helping much. Smyth's numbers are forgiveable because he is playing a new position.
I dunno, I like both these players. Horcoff has been absolutely terrible, no doubt. I have to wonder if his hip injury isn't more serious than they (or he) is letting on. Horcoff has been one of the Oiler's perennial leaders in this regard since he got here ... until now. Everything happens for a reason ... I suspect there is something else to it, and it's affecting his confidence now. He'll be fine, he's a very good hockey player ... and we'll all forget the terrible start if he finishes the year well.

BTW: Laraque can play better, no doubt. But in fairness ... he hasn't been on the ice for an ES goal-against in over a month. And size and strength are never as important in November as in March and April IMO.

Quote:
Where would we be if lowe hadn't have traded for york, devo, and torres?
I shudder to think.

Quote:
The number that really jumps out at me is stoll.
Yup, I think so too. He really reminds me of Horcoff when he broke in, ironically ... since most people want to see Stoll get Horcoff's minutes when Reasoner returns. Better on the dot, not as fast ... but a real similar player, even the mannerisms. A solid hockey player methinks, a keeper for sure.

.

The thing that jumps at me most about this is how balanced the EV ice-time is. If NHL.com separated the 4on4 from 5on5 icetime I think there would be even more parity.

The other thing is that the guys who are hanging on the hind teet (Hemsky, Horcoff, Smyth) are all going to be very good 5on5 hockey players by the end of the year ... IMO they are having a rough stretch, but they just didn't fall off the map. They'll be fine in the long run. And that bodes awfully well for this hockey team. They've been a top-ten 5on5 team for yonks, and (only in terms of 5on5 play) they seem poised to move into the elite ranks in this regard. [BUT: The less said about special teams the better ]

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11-29-2003, 06:23 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
laraque and horcoff are not lowe's guys. He inherited them. I can see him shopping these two because they really aren't helping much. SMyth's numbers are forgiveable because he is playing a new position.

.
Have you seen how strong Lowe has supported Shawn Horcoff in the last few years? He's the one guy Lowe has touted in the off season that hasn't left yet, the others including Cleary and Green. I wouldn't say he's shopping him.

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11-29-2003, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfan
Have you seen how strong Lowe has supported Shawn Horcoff in the last few years? He's the one guy Lowe has touted in the off season that hasn't left yet, the others including Cleary and Green. I wouldn't say he's shopping him.
my point is that bosses have a vested interest in guys they bring into the org. His guys get the benefit of the doubt ( ie - salo and Turek, Sutter had no problem bringing in a guy to replace the previous gms' franchise goalie)

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11-29-2003, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I just completely disagree with the idea Smyth has been horrible all season. He hasn't been our best player, and he should be that I'll give you.
Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think everyone is forgetting that Smyth is learning a new position this year. I think that does alot to explain the -17 goals against. His lines are still scoring at a decent pace even though he's been playing all over with several players. I think MacT is making a big mistake with Smyth.

I feel Smyth is a player that makes a good line great, however he does need to play with quality players to be successful. He is not Gretzky, Weight. He does not turn his linemates into allstars. Smyth cannot carry a line, that is not the type of player he is.

I say put Smyth on the wing and play him with the same quality players for a few games and he will get back to form.

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Old
11-29-2003, 08:39 PM
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What I noticed at a glance is Ethan's numbers are probably a little higher than in the past. Good good. He is playing better this year. Also, Bergeron's stats are pretty good. I think this directly reflects his tendancy to work his but off to correct any mistakes he makes.

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11-29-2003, 08:41 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think everyone is forgetting that Smyth is learning a new position this year. I think that does alot to explain the -17 goals against. His lines are still scoring at a decent pace even though he's been playing all over with several players. I think MacT is making a big mistake with Smyth.

I feel Smyth is a player that makes a good line great, however he does need to play with quality players to be successful. He is not Gretzky, Weight. He does not turn his linemates into allstars. Smyth cannot carry a line, that is not the type of player he is.

I say put Smyth on the wing and play him with the same quality players for a few games and he will get back to form.
5 on 5 his lines have not been putting the puck in the net. He has played shifts with York, Dvorak, Oates, Hemsky in the past few games and still managed to accomplish zero. Aweful year so far other than a couple games. By aweful I mean not visible, not making plays, not making smart choices, playing like a rookie. He has been playing with good players all year. Hemsky is one of the most talented players on the team. Just because one other player is missing all of the sudden he has an excuse to be useless. PP he is average at best, defensively less than stellar. Frustration has set in for me. There is no excuse for Smyth. He is paid as though he is the teams best player and he has delivered no where near what he is paid.

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11-29-2003, 09:40 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
He has played shifts with York, Dvorak, Oates, Hemsky in the past few games and still managed to accomplish zero.

And those shifts you can probably count on one hand in the last 3-4 games. His regular linemates are and has been for most of the season Moreau and Pisani.

I think Smyth is beginning to realize just how tough the switch to center is especially in regards to the defensive aspect.

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11-29-2003, 09:44 PM
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Walsher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
And those shifts you can probably count on one hand in the last 3-4 games. His regular linemates are and has been for most of the season Moreau and Pisani.

I think Smyth is beginning to realize just how tough the switch to center is especially in regards to the defensive aspect.
Actually I am almost positive one of the first games with those two was the loss in Boston about 8 games ago. Reasoner has missed ten and Stolly played a few with that line. He has been with Hemsky the majority of the season. Smyth has played quite a bit on the wing also. Horcoff Centered his line as well as Smyth being demoted to wing on 4th line. Either way his contributions have been minimal at best.


Last edited by Walsher: 11-29-2003 at 09:55 PM.
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11-29-2003, 10:42 PM
  #14
momentai
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Originally Posted by Walsher
Actually I am almost positive one of the first games with those two was the loss in Boston about 8 games ago. Reasoner has missed ten and Stolly played a few with that line. He has been with Hemsky the majority of the season. Smyth has played quite a bit on the wing also. Horcoff Centered his line as well as Smyth being demoted to wing on 4th line. Either way his contributions have been minimal at best.
I realize that. But he has never really been put into a position where he's been most comfortable. He has not played left wing this year I believe.. I'd sure say he's not playing like he should... but then again.. it's probably not easy at the present moment to be showcasing his wares playing with Moreau and Pisani.

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