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All Rick Nash talk- The Free Agency Frenzy Edition

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:02 PM
  #101
wahsnairb
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Laughable on some of the bold names.
laughable on some he didn't bold as well

the list is laughable in general

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
There were 5-6 teams at the deadline. We know that list likely expanded in the offseason, to give Howson more room to work.

I'm not commenting on Carolina's placement for two reasons:

1. Standings change from year to year. It wasn't too long ago that the Rangers were a whole 2 points ahead of the Canes in the final standings.
2. If you don't believe a top 6 with Ruutu, Skinner, both Staals and Nash couldn't compete, I don't know what to tell you.
1. Saying we KNOW the list LIKELY expanded is pretty much politician speak to sway an unknown in your favor.

2. I didnt say they couldnt compete did I? All I said was there were a handful of approved teams with known interest that give him a better chance.

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06-30-2012, 11:06 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Nash is better than all those I bolded.
He most certainly is not better than Zetterberg (LOL Nash better than Henrik?), Kessel, Richards, Carter, Neal, Green, Heatley

Guys like Seguin, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Landeskog WILL all be a class above Rick Nash as a soon as next year, bank on that (which is why I rate all of them above Nash because of each of their untapped potential and what I believe they will become)

Other names are debatable as always and it's all opinion.

Of course you can't be wrong with your bolded, but neither can I.

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06-30-2012, 11:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Laughable on some of the bold names.
Please speak to which bc most of them arent even close.

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
He most certainly is not better than Zetterberg (LOL Nash better than Henrik?), Kessel, Richards, Carter, Neal, Green, Heatley

Guys like Seguin, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Landeskog WILL all be a class above Rick Nash as a soon as next year, bank on that (which is why I rate all of them above Nash because of each of their untapped potential and what I believe they will become)

Other names are debatable as always and it's all opinion.

Of course you can't be wrong with your bolded, but neither can I.
Repost.

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06-30-2012, 11:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by sexton11 View Post
Its a bad deal cuz his contract runs out in 3 years?

When does Ryans contract end? Do you know?

Also, if Staals play fell off dramatically because of a concussion and lowered his value, im guessing as a Bluejackets fan you didnt have much of a reason to watch the playoffs, but if you did, you would have seen a pre concussion Staal being our best defenceman.
first off - an offer of Staal and Anisimov and a first from the Rangers wouldn't be near enough for Ryan, and the Ducks could easily get a lot more from Philly or a number of other teams.

Secondly - yes, the number of years left on a contract for a guy who will be UFA absolutley comes into play. Especially for a guy like Marc Staal who has 3 brothers all with one team who would certainly come calling for him in free agency.

How Staal was pre-concussion doesn't matter - this year he wasn't as good as Girardi or McDonough which of course is why you're fine offering him up in fake trades, and also why he wouldn't be worth Bobby Ryan

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06-30-2012, 11:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
He most certainly is not better than Zetterberg (LOL Nash better than Henrik?), Kessel, Richards, Carter, Neal, Green, Heatley

Guys like Seguin, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Landeskog WILL all be a class above Rick Nash as a soon as next year, bank on that (which is why I rate all of them above Nash because of each of their untapped potential and what I believe they will become)

Other names are debatable as always and it's all opinion.

Of course you can't be wrong with your bolded, but neither can I.
I take Nash over all of those you listed in the first paragraph, except for Zetterberg.

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06-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Marc Staal (great contract, premier shutdown D) +1st rounder + for Ryan + is not a bad deal.

Staal + Anisimov + 1st for Ryan + is a real good offer. I really doubt they'd say no to that. Staal holds alot of value so this deal is prob overpayment but that's what it would take.
It's unreal how clueless you are

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06-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
He most certainly is not better than Zetterberg (LOL Nash better than Henrik?), Kessel, Richards, Carter, Neal, Green, Heatley

Guys like Seguin, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Landeskog WILL all be a class above Rick Nash as a soon as next year, bank on that (which is why I rate all of them above Nash because of each of their untapped potential and what I believe they will become)

Other names are debatable as always and it's all opinion.

Of course you can't be wrong with your bolded, but neither can I.
Hes better than Kessel, Richards, Carter, Green and Heatley EASILY. Easily, its not even close. You really dont watch Nash much, I hate to use that as an argument but its simply has to be true if you honestly think that. All the "young guys" arent better than Nash as of right now. Thats what I asked, them possibly being better in a year avoids the question and proves that you couldnt list 50 guys better than Rick. Unbelievable how underrated Nash is here.

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06-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
I take Nash over all of those you listed in the first paragraph, except for Zetterberg.
Of course you would, cause you love "Nasher"

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06-30-2012, 11:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Hes better than Kessel, Richards, Carter, Green and Heatley EASILY. Easily, its not even close. You really dont watch Nash much, I hate to use that as an argument but its simply has to be true if you honestly think that. All the "young guys" arent better than Nash as of right now. Thats what I asked, them possibly being better in a year avoids the question and proves that you couldnt list 50 guys better than Rick. Unbelievable how underrated Nash is here.
I bet everyone would love him if he was paid around 6 mil.

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06-30-2012, 11:14 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
first off - an offer of Staal and Anisimov and a first from the Rangers wouldn't be near enough for Ryan, and the Ducks could easily get a lot more from Philly or a number of other teams.

Secondly - yes, the number of years left on a contract for a guy who will be UFA absolutley comes into play. Especially for a guy like Marc Staal who has 3 brothers all with one team who would certainly come calling for him in free agency.

How Staal was pre-concussion doesn't matter - this year he wasn't as good as Girardi or McDonough which of course is why you're fine offering him up in fake trades, and also why he wouldn't be worth Bobby Ryan

Then you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Staal was our best d-man during the playoffs. Why make up stuff about other teams players when you don't know anything about them?

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Of course you would, cause you love "Nasher"
Well played, but you obviously don't watch 'Nasher' very often. I'm done, this thread has gone to ****.

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06-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
He most certainly is not better than Zetterberg (LOL Nash better than Henrik?), Kessel, Richards, Carter, Neal, Green, Heatley

Guys like Seguin, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Duchene, Landeskog WILL all be a class above Rick Nash as a soon as next year, bank on that (which is why I rate all of them above Nash because of each of their untapped potential and what I believe they will become)

Other names are debatable as always and it's all opinion.

Of course you can't be wrong with your bolded, but neither can I.
that list makes no sense for two reasons.

one, just as hockey players Nash is better than most of them.

two, the price for a player in trade or free agency is based on the market and what's available. right now, Seguin, Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, Benn, etc, are not available. You can't get them in a trade, you can't sign them as free agents.

So - if you're looking to provide a big offensive boost to your team, you can't just say, go aquire Pavel Datsuk, or Steven Stamkos, or most of those names on your list.

Teams can only acquire what's available. So you can't say "Nash isn't worth a high price because he's not as good as so and so" because those players aren't available and won't be available most likely.

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06-30-2012, 11:17 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The questions then become this...
- If it means losing Skinner and gaining Nash, is it still worth it?
- How big of an impact does Boucher's injury have?

Boucher is 35, and obviously injured at least through Thanksgiving and possibly longer. Steve Mason is 24, and has exactly one year left on his contract. As an athletic full-right goalie who was in the NHL unexpectedly at a young age, he's also exactly the type who could benefit from being around Tom Barrasso.

Let's say there's a basic foundation of Skinner, Jokinen, and Ryan Murphy for Nash and Mason. Faulk stays, McBain stays, Dalpe stays, etc. I'm not getting into draft pick issues, or mid-level prospects, or anything like that. Carolina loses Skinner and Jokinen off the current roster, but adds Nash and a moderate-risk/high-reward backup with one year left. If Mason totally bombs out, Boucher comes back in short order anyway, and Mason's contract is up next year. And the thought of Nash alongside Staal and Staal...
It's rough. It really is. I'm a big fan of Nash and not as high on Skinner as most of the fanbase, but I'd need to see one more year of Skinner before I'd feel comfortable moving him. He had some issues last year and Muller said they'd work with him this offseason on those issues. He's still young and won't cost nearly as much as Nash in the near future. On the other hand, as you said, Nash-Staal-Staal would be ridiculous.

If I were the hypothetical GM, I'd trade Skinner for Nash. Of course, in this hypothetical, I have no connection to the players, I don't have to answer to the owners/investors/fans as to why I traded the dream boat, and I've got no budgetary restrictions.

As for the rest of your proposal, McBain/Dalpe/Rask would be more movable than Ryan Murphy.

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06-30-2012, 11:18 PM
  #116
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Even if I eliminate the bold players on your list (and I flat out will never entertain the idea that Rick Nash is better than Zetterberg, Richards, Carter, or Neal), where does Rick Nash rank to you?

45th or 46th?

Point remains: Why does the 45th best player (by your own admission) in the NHL have a top 5 cap hit in the NHL?

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06-30-2012, 11:19 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
laughable on some he didn't bold as well

the list is laughable in general
Agreed. Names like Phaneuf, Hedman, etc don't belong there. At least use better examples.

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06-30-2012, 11:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Even if I eliminate the bold players on your list (and I flat out will never entertain the idea that Rick Nash is better than Zetterberg, Richards, Carter, or Neal), where does Rick Nash rank to you?

45th or 46th?

Point remains: Why does the 45th best player (by your own admission) in the NHL have a top 5 cap hit in the NHL?

Because Howson is a dumbass.

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06-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #119
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Then you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Staal was our best d-man during the playoffs. Why make up stuff about other teams players when you don't know anything about them?
You're right, you've totally convinced me

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06-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
first off - an offer of Staal and Anisimov and a first from the Rangers wouldn't be near enough for Ryan, and the Ducks could easily get a lot more from Philly or a number of other teams.

Secondly - yes, the number of years left on a contract for a guy who will be UFA absolutley comes into play. Especially for a guy like Marc Staal who has 3 brothers all with one team who would certainly come calling for him in free agency.

How Staal was pre-concussion doesn't matter - this year he wasn't as good as Girardi or McDonough which of course is why you're fine offering him up in fake trades, and also why he wouldn't be worth Bobby Ryan
So to you ANA wont consider a player that isnt locked up till after 2016? Right. Good to know. Oh BTW, Ryan's contract ends when Staal's does.

Saying Staal wasnt as good as Girardi and McD (Untrue, like I said watch the playoffs, might be good to witness some real hockey) on the Rangers is like saying Neal isnt good because Malkin and Crosby are better. He holds a ton of value regardless of who else is on his team.

Pre Concussion Staal meant that after missing 50 something games he finally played like the Staal from before he got the concussion... not that he went and got a time machine.

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06-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Even if I eliminate the bold players on your list (and I flat out will never entertain the idea that Rick Nash is better than Zetterberg, Richards, Carter, or Neal), where does Rick Nash rank to you?

45th or 46th?

Point remains: Why does the 45th best player (by your own admission) in the NHL have a top 5 cap hit in the NHL?
because he happens to be the best player on the jackets.. a player who was blowing up putting up 40 goal seasons at a young age before he got a contract.. a player who is literally the face of a poorly managed franchise. they pay him that much because he means and meant that much to the team.

he is an elite goal scorer.. a power forward who can hit and play strong d when asked to focus on that (and played his best in a defensive system).. and he got paid to be both an elite scorer and marketable.

If anyone knows he is overpaid it is CBJ fans, but it is pretty easy to see WHY they gave him that. I didn't even mention that it was a highly sought Canadian signing in Columbus when considering his value.

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06-30-2012, 11:24 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rangers1135 View Post
Because Howson is a dumbass.

Please - so if Nash became a UFA last year, I'm sure the Rangers or whoever would've signed him would have gotten him for a $5 million cap hit.

It takes money and term to lock players like him up. Look at that awful deal it took to get a 31 year old Brad Richards signed.

If a star player comes close to UFA status or gets to UFA status they get huge money and term - the market dictates that, not Howson or any other GM.

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06-30-2012, 11:25 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Please speak to which bc most of them arent even close.
I stopped when you bold Henrik Zetterberg. That was enough evidence that you're a homer.

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06-30-2012, 11:27 PM
  #124
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So to you ANA wont consider a player that isnt locked up till after 2016?
They could get a player just as good as Staal or one younger, with more upside, who isn't close to UFA status.

You may be surprised to hear this but there are other teams aside from the Rangers that have assets to offer

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06-30-2012, 11:30 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
because he happens to be the best player on the jackets.. a player who was blowing up putting up 40 goal seasons at a young age before he got a contract.. a player who is literally the face of a poorly managed franchise. they pay him that much because he means and meant that much to the team.

he is an elite goal scorer.. a power forward who can hit and play strong d when asked to focus on that (and played his best in a defensive system).. and he got paid to be both an elite scorer and marketable.
"Elite goal scorers" don't cap out at 41 when they are 19.

Nash is a very good goal scorer, but let's not get crazy here. Ovechkin Stamkos, Kovalchuk etc are elite goal scorers.

Half the reason why Columbus has been a complete dumpster fire for years (besides brutal player development and bad managemnt) is because of WHO they picked to build around. Rick Nash is not a player you build around, and Columbus found this out the hard way.

Pay a premium price for a not so premium player and try to build around a guy who is more of a first line complementary piece to an actual franchise player = Columbus in a nut shell.

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