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i never would've thought...(semin)

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Old
06-30-2012, 10:31 PM
  #26
Layne Staley
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Why trade our Best winger in Vanek when we have cap room? I'd move Stafford first. Having a 1-2 at LW of Vanek-Semin is nasty. Two former 40 goal scorers under the age of 29.

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06-30-2012, 10:41 PM
  #27
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I would give it a shot, but depending on the cap hit. 54 points in each of the last 2 years, I think the most you could give his is 4.5/year. Anything north of that and I wouldn't be a fan of the signing

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06-30-2012, 10:44 PM
  #28
Layne Staley
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
I would give it a shot, but depending on the cap hit. 54 points in each of the last 2 years, I think the most you could give his is 4.5/year. Anything north of that and I wouldn't be a fan of the signing
Semin has more 70 point seasons then Vanek and Pominville. Former 40 goal scorer. He is getting 6.5 million minimum.

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06-30-2012, 10:52 PM
  #29
LGB24
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Semin has more 70 point seasons then Vanek and Pominville. Former 40 goal scorer. He is getting 6.5 million minimum.
Yeah i guess I'm being way too conservative. I definitely think he's a great player I just don't think he's worth what it'll cost to get him.

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06-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #30
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The drop off in production over the past three seasons is a concern, but not a deal-breaker. And 4 points in 14 playoff games this season? In an of itself, signing Semin doesn't do it for me.

Now if we can sign him, then trade Vanek for a guy like Pavelski, that's another story.

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06-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #31
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Is this a safe space? Because signing Semin and kicking out Lindy is my dream offseason.

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06-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #32
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Mercurial. Eh. It's difficult to see him as an option if there aren't some other roster shaping moves happening as well. Not particularly a fan.

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06-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #33
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, on what planet is Ryan Clowe a throw in for a trade? Pavelski has the same value as Vanek give or take. I don't think that Gerbe = Clowe in any scenario.

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06-30-2012, 11:36 PM
  #34
Jame
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, on what planet is Ryan Clowe a throw in for a trade? Pavelski has the same value as Vanek give or take. I don't think that Gerbe = Clowe in any scenario.
im only going by the san jose rumor... that they were offering pavelski, clowe, demers, 1st for rick nash

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06-30-2012, 11:40 PM
  #35
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Sometimes I think the incredible circle-jerk of facts and statistics around here at times makes you forget that, just like positive intangibles that can't necessarily be reflected on the scoresheet, there are negative intangibles as well.

The guy isn't a winner. If a once offensive powerhouse like the Caps can find enough reason to cut ties with him, I'm not sure what makes anyone think he's the solution.

I'm sure Connolly looked good to Leafs fans at one point too.

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06-30-2012, 11:43 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Sometimes I think the incredible circle-jerk of facts and statistics around here at times makes you forget that, just like positive intangibles that can't necessarily be reflected on the scoresheet, there are negative intangibles as well.

The guy isn't a winner. If a once offensive powerhouse like the Caps can find enough reason to cut ties with him, I'm not sure what makes anyone think he's the solution.

I'm sure Connolly looked good to Leafs fans at one point too.
Well, now that you mention it, we have been looking for a pivot man...

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06-30-2012, 11:53 PM
  #37
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Sometimes I think the incredible circle-jerk of facts and statistics around here at times makes you forget that, just like positive intangibles that can't necessarily be reflected on the scoresheet, there are negative intangibles as well.

The guy isn't a winner. If a once offensive powerhouse like the Caps can find enough reason to cut ties with him, I'm not sure what makes anyone think he's the solution.

I'm sure Connolly looked good to Leafs fans at one point too.
What is a "winner"? Name some "winners"... most of them are undeserving of the reputation just because they were in great situations. No one is saying he's some clutch dynamo but you're basically implying he is a born loser because the Caps never got over the hump. How about pinning that on Ovechkin before pinning it on Semin.

In my opinion, Semin would be arguably the best player on our team in terms of ability to produce against top defensive players. To me, that's a guy who can help you win when the chips are down.

And we're talking beyond the basic scoresheet here, we're talking about impact on linemates and basically whether the team is better with or without him on the ice.

That's not to say he's without his downside. He's not super consistent in production game to game. For a guy who will get a big contract, he doesn't seem like "do the little things, on and off ice leader" guy like Parise. He's had minor injury issues every season. The "winner" thing just seems silly to me. Why isn't Parise also a "loser"? Every player who played on the Caps since the lockout should be considered a loser, then.

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07-01-2012, 12:03 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
What is a "winner"? Name some "winners"... most of them are undeserving of the reputation just because they were in great situations. No one is saying he's some clutch dynamo but you're basically implying he is a born loser because the Caps never got over the hump. How about pinning that on Ovechkin before pinning it on Semin.

In my opinion, Semin would be arguably the best player on our team in terms of ability to produce against top defensive players. To me, that's a guy who can help you win when the chips are down.

And we're talking beyond the basic scoresheet here, we're talking about impact on linemates and basically whether the team is better with or without him on the ice.

That's not to say he's without his downside. He's not super consistent in production game to game. For a guy who will get a big contract, he doesn't seem like "do the little things, on and off ice leader" guy like Parise. He's had minor injury issues every season. The "winner" thing just seems silly to me. Why isn't Parise also a "loser"? Every player who played on the Caps since the lockout should be considered a loser, then.
Because even Caps fans consider him an inconsistent floater. Do you think even with the raw offensive talent, it's the direction we should be going? Do you think that's the type of player that Ruff will get the most out of? Do you want to risk that rubbing off on certain young Russian talents that dropped to us in the draft due to questionable attitude issues?

Parise is the type of player that will carry his team on his back win or lose, Semin is the type to be carried.

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07-01-2012, 12:04 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
yes, vanek would have to go... and hopefully the return on that trade would allow for roy to be moved too
Vanek isn't going anywhere. End of discussion.
There's no sense in trading one of the few consistent goalscorers in your franchise when that's exactly what you're looking for.

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07-01-2012, 12:15 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Because even Caps fans consider him an inconsistent floater. Do you think even with the raw offensive talent, it's the direction we should be going? Do you think that's the type of player that Ruff will get the most out of? Do you want to risk that rubbing off on certain young Russian talents that dropped to us in the draft due to questionable attitude issues?

Parise is the type of player that will carry his team on his back win or lose, Semin is the type to be carried.
carried his team to the Stanely Cup and hoisted it... Wait I'm thinking of someone else. Has he carried the devils anywhere? Ever? So he's the same as Semin but more teams are going to be bidding for his services.

"carries a team win or lose" it's not called carry when you lose it's called not being good enough to win.

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07-01-2012, 12:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
5 yrs / 30 million / 6 cap

trade vanek + gerbe for pavelski and clowe

trade roy for ott

semin-hodgson-pommer
clowe-pavelski-leino
foligno-ennis-stafford
kaleta-ott-tropp/mccormick
people stop undervaluing Roy, he had one bad season, he is worth more than Ott, Roy for Ott+ 2nd round pick is a more even trade, if Roy wasn't a 1 year rental we could probably get more

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07-01-2012, 12:19 AM
  #42
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Because even Caps fans consider him an inconsistent floater. Do you think even with the raw offensive talent, it's the direction we should be going? Do you think that's the type of player that Ruff will get the most out of? Do you want to risk that rubbing off on certain young Russian talents that dropped to us in the draft due to questionable attitude issues?

Parise is the type of player that will carry his team on his back win or lose, Semin is the type to be carried.
If anyone carried the Devils it was this inconsistent, floating Russian; a born loser and poor teammate; a one-dimensional, one-way, one-man team player; Ilya Kovalchuk.

I don't know where it is said that the Caps consider Semin an inconsistent floater. I think letting him walk is more about prioritizing need.

Regarding Ruff, I specifically brought him up as one of my two chief concerns regarding Semin.

Regarding Grigorenko, I would actually want Semin's two-way play rubbing off on him. Beyond that, I will say that I don't know the truth about Semin's attitudes so I can't say.

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07-01-2012, 12:24 AM
  #43
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I want semin but that addition must come with a ryan/clowe addition aswell

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07-01-2012, 12:29 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sentrix View Post
Vanek isn't going anywhere. End of discussion.
There's no sense in trading one of the few consistent goalscorers in your franchise when that's exactly what you're looking for.
"vanek" and "consistent goal scorer" shouldn't be in the same sentence.

his season to season totals are inconsistent
as are his month to month totals within those seasons

vanek is streaky and inconsistent

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07-01-2012, 12:29 AM
  #45
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carried his team to the Stanely Cup and hoisted it... Wait I'm thinking of someone else. Has he carried the devils anywhere? Ever? So he's the same as Semin but more teams are going to be bidding for his services.

"carries a team win or lose" it's not called carry when you lose it's called not being good enough to win.
Ugh...

If you guys really want to overpay for the Ville Leino of this years "Top Winger Sweepstakes", go nuts. If you can't tell the difference between Parise and Semin, then you deserve him.

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07-01-2012, 12:31 AM
  #46
Jame
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people stop undervaluing Roy, he had one bad season, he is worth more than Ott, Roy for Ott+ 2nd round pick is a more even trade, if Roy wasn't a 1 year rental we could probably get more
undervalued him by as much as a 2nd round pick?

samsonite... i was way off

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07-01-2012, 12:33 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Ugh...

If you guys really want to go after the Ville Leino of this years "Top Winger Sweepstakes", go nuts. If you can't tell the difference between Parise and Semin, then you deserve him.
it was stupid comments like this, in other threads, that led me to re-evaluate Semin

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07-01-2012, 12:34 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Ugh...

If you guys really want to go after the Ville Leino of this years "Top Winger Sweepstakes", go nuts. If you can't tell the difference between Parise and Semin, then you deserve him.
I can't counter your argument so I'll go with the "you obviously have the hockey IQ of JP Losman" argument. I am beaten sir. 'dofts cap'

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07-01-2012, 12:38 AM
  #49
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Ugh...

If you guys really want to overpay for the Ville Leino of this years "Top Winger Sweepstakes", go nuts. If you can't tell the difference between Parise and Semin, then you deserve him.
Look, I am very sympathetic to people who want no part of Semin. I have my own reservations and contractual limits, as well as a preference for Parise all things being equal. But to compare him to Leino is absurd. Semin is an elite talent and he has the production over his entire career to back up his status as a top line player. The guy shoots 14% as a 30 goal scorer, which is considerably good. I don't see on what universe he can be compared to Leino who is backed up by 1 good regular season (well below Semin's worst) and 1 good playoff (comparable to Semin's best).

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07-01-2012, 12:38 AM
  #50
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So you guys really think Semin and Parise are more or less on the same level? Why isn't there a GM in the league that agrees with that?

Where's the parade for Semin wherever he signs? Assuming he doesn't head over to the KHL.

Guess no one gives a **** without a Excel spreadsheet backing you up.

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I don't see on what universe he can be compared to Leino who is backed up by 1 good regular season (well below Semin's worst) and 1 good playoff (comparable to Semin's best).
When I say the "Ville Leino", I mean the Plan B. The guy you go after when Richards is off the table.

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