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i never would've thought...(semin)

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Old
07-01-2012, 12:45 AM
  #51
Imlach a cup
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Never ever ever ever ever in the history of the NHL or in the history of humankind nor will it ever happen during our expansion to the stars will plan B ever work. I don't even know why we have the damn thing. For real content please see Rob Paxon's post.

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07-01-2012, 12:46 AM
  #52
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
So you guys really think Semin and Parise are more or less on the same level?
no. that was simply a lame straw man argument you attempted to make


Quote:
When I say the "Ville Leino", I mean the Plan B. The guy you go after when Richards is off the table.
yea. good comparison

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07-01-2012, 12:50 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no. that was simply a lame straw man argument you attempted to make
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
carried his team to the Stanely Cup and hoisted it... Wait I'm thinking of someone else. Has he carried the devils anywhere? Ever? So he's the same as Semin but more teams are going to be bidding for his services.
My bad.

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yea. good comparison
Everyone wants Parise, someone will settle with Semin. Does that sound so farfetched?

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07-01-2012, 12:51 AM
  #54
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
So you guys really think Semin and Parise are more or less on the same level? Why isn't there a GM in the league that agrees with that?

Where's the parade for Semin wherever he signs? Assuming he doesn't head over to the KHL.

Guess no one gives a **** without a Excel spreadsheet backing you up.
Funny since those know-nothing dweeb GMs also back themselves up with "Excel spreadsheets". Anyone who has watched Semin play knows he how good he is, I don't recall mentioning statistics to make every single point. Also no one has said Semin and Parise are equally preferable, if anyone mentions both they mention they prefer Parise as I explicitly have.

They are on comparable levels though, sure. Parise is just a more complete player with more intangibles. He isn't on a whole other level in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
When I say the "Ville Leino", I mean the Plan B. The guy you go after when Richards is off the table.
That makes no more sense. Semin is far more comparable to Parise than Leino is to Richards. There is no legitimacy in comparing the situations.

Further there's nothing wrong with Plan B. There's a reason people plan for Plan B, because it's considered a worthwhile option. Only one team is going to get Parise yet many of those teams will compete for and win Stanley Cups, including those that very much wanted to get Parise.

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07-01-2012, 12:55 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
My bad.


Everyone wants Parise, someone will settle with Semin. Does that sound so farfetched?
yes, i think "settling" for a 40 goal scorer is a silly concept

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07-01-2012, 12:57 AM
  #56
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I don't really see him as a good fit at all.

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07-01-2012, 01:02 AM
  #57
Dreakon
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Meh, you guys bested me. I have nothing to fall back on really. Thought I could stand up with the big dogs. My hockey knowledge is pretty limited since it's a minor hobby of mine and I only started following the Sabres back in 05-06. If we do go after Semin, hopefully I can get to know the player as well as you guys do.

And hey, Stafford could use another friend to disappear with.


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07-01-2012, 01:08 AM
  #58
Imlach a cup
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Pic made me laugh

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07-01-2012, 01:11 AM
  #59
Dreakon
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I'll bet it did.

Did you see that guy saying Semin doesn't seem like a good fit? Since when are 40 goal scorers bad fits? Do you not score goals in hockey anymore?

Man, people... am I right?

I'd like to see that spreadsheet.

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07-01-2012, 01:11 AM
  #60
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Meh, you guys bested me. I have nothing to fall back on really. Thought I could stand up with the big dogs. My hockey knowledge is pretty limited since it's a minor hobby of mine and I only started following the Sabres back in 05-06. If we do go after Semin, hopefully I can get to know the player as well as you guys do.

And hey, Stafford could use another friend to disappear with.

Again, to be fair, there's no argument that he doesn't disappear at times. He's rather comparable to Vanek in that way. But when you're that talented, you are a benefit to your team even when you're struggling. Just his presence on the ice is going to draw lots of attention because he can beat anyone 1 on 1 in his sleep. A guy like him either paired with Vanek or on a different line puts Foligno/etc-Ennis-Stafford in an even better place to succeed (assuming we wouldn't move Stafford after getting Semin).

Now, I hope they throw a legitimate pitch at Parise but the bidding is going to get ridiculous and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets ridiculous for Semin either. Some GMs will consider a lot of the criticisms to be severely overstated and some will very much buy into them, but I think there will be a lot of interest.

I'm fine with a solid, low-key offseason for the Sabres.

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07-01-2012, 01:19 AM
  #61
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Absolutely, positively, no way.

Too much money, not consistent, god awful defensively, coach who hates Russians....way too many red flags.

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07-01-2012, 01:21 AM
  #62
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Trading Vanek and replacing him with Semin?? Man, those of you who think Vanek "doesn't try" or whatever are in for a real treat watching Semin.

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07-01-2012, 01:23 AM
  #63
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Absolutely, positively, no way.

Too much money, not consistent, god awful defensively, coach who hates Russians....way too many red flags.
Where do you get that he is god awful defensively and also the idea that the coach "hates Russians" is pretty over the top.

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07-01-2012, 01:27 AM
  #64
Dreakon
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sba,

Semin is a 40 goal scorer.

What determines what wins a hockey game? Thats right, whatever team has more goals than the other one. With Vanek scoring goals, and Pominville scoring goals and Semin scoring goals, that's like ****ing 120 goals right there. Get it? Maybe even more if you count the other guys too.

Jesus Christ.


Last edited by vcv: 07-01-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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07-01-2012, 01:27 AM
  #65
Imlach a cup
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Trading Vanek and replacing him with Semin?? Man, those of you who think Vanek "doesn't try" or whatever are in for a real treat watching Semin.
Semin is UFA we aren't trading anyone for him. Vanek is going for Pav and Clowe apparently. I'm in the Parise isn't coming to Buffalo and Semin is a better choice then The Tropper Top.

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07-01-2012, 01:32 AM
  #66
Dreakon
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Semin is UFA we aren't trading anyone for him. Vanek is going for Pav and Clowe apparently. I'm in the Parise isn't coming to Buffalo and Semin is a better choice then The Tropper Top.
Yeah man, that's a good point. It's a good thing he definitely said trading Vanek directly for Semin.

I don't even think Vanek has been brought up yet in this thread. Certainly not the idea of trading him.

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07-01-2012, 01:37 AM
  #67
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sounds likw you guys are making excuses to get back together with a cheating ex girlfriend

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07-01-2012, 01:40 AM
  #68
Dreakon
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Sounds like someones just pulling straws out of a barrel because you can't match up to our argument.

Heh, right guys?


(an hour of my life... gone)

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07-01-2012, 01:41 AM
  #69
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
sba,

Let me piece this together for you, you half-wit.

Semin is a 40 goal scorer.

What determines what wins a hockey game? Thats right, whatever team has more goals than the other one. With Vanek scoring goals, and Pominville scoring goals and Semin scoring goals, that's like ****ing 120 goals right there. Get it? Maybe even more if you count the other guys too.

Jesus Christ.
It's always embarrassing when people try to mock others and it doesn't end up being funny nor undermine their actual positions.

#1 Semin has a positive impact on his linemates defensively as well as offensively. Is he an elite two-way player? No, but he helps rather than hurts.

#2 Yes, the game is about scoring and stopping goals. If you have a guy who scores 30+ goals and also doesn't hurt you (or even helps) defensively then you are that much closer to winning.

#3 Those of us you are attempting to mock are all people who know full well the value of size, toughness, heart, etc. We know the Sabres need those things, but Semin doesn't disclude improvements in those areas. Further, as people may not be aware, Semin has very good size for a winger and though he isn't a physical force, his size means he is not easy for the defense to bully. He is 6'2 and 210-212 pounds.

#4 Semin would help the other offensive players on this team because he has a positive impact on linemates offensively, just like he does defensively, both of which are easily demonstrable. He would also take defensive attention off other lines as well as pressure to score in general.

Again, the reasonable arguments against Semin are numerous and considerable. It's not necessary to attempt to mock others because of their valid debunking of the less reasonable arguments. I'm a big boy and I am more than comfortable with people trying to insult me but in this scenario it really does not reflect well on you.

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07-01-2012, 01:48 AM
  #70
Dreakon
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
It's not necessary to attempt to mock others because of their valid debunking of the less reasonable arguments.
Of course it isn't necessary.

I really don't consider myself debunked. I've heard he's an inconsistent floater from people who watch him regularly. I think Parise is a better player than him for his "intangibles". I think most would agree with me. You folks haven't done much to disprove that other than literally saying that him and Parise are the same (then telling me that never happened), and that he's a 40 goal scorer.

It's cool that you feel that way, but step aside and let me get a few meaningless chuckles before I head to sleep.

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07-01-2012, 01:53 AM
  #71
Layne Staley
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
"vanek" and "consistent goal scorer" shouldn't be in the same sentence.


Yeah, Vanek inconsistent goal scorer as Vanek joins a very very elite few to score 25+ goals their first 7 seasons.

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07-01-2012, 01:57 AM
  #72
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Of course it isn't necessary.

I really don't consider myself debunked. I've heard he's an inconsistent floater from people who watch him regularly. I think Parise is a better player than him for his "intangables". I think most would agree with me. You folks haven't done much to disprove that other than literally saying that him and Parise are the same (then telling me that never happened), and that he's a 40 goal scorer.

It's cool that you feel that way, but step aside and let me get a few meaningless chuckles before I head to sleep.
So you've heard something from others yet you ridicule the idea of statistics which have been proven accurate when they're properly used. I am not stating that I have debunked the idea that Parise is better, as I feel he is better. I'm also not stating that I've somehow proven that we should get Semin as there are many legitimate arguments in favor and against him.

I'm merely saying that certain very broad criticisms of Semin have been debunked as overblown or completely inaccurate. The point being that short of someone being able to demonstrate those criticisms in face of the contrary evidence, people should focus on discussing the legitimate criticisms like how he's yet to play a full 82 game season, whether or not he's needed on this roster, should we only add an expensive winger if he is a power forward, etc.

Personally, I'm not hot on adding any expensive wingers period, but if we are going to do that, Semin is not a massive step down from Parise and is also more likely to actually be attainable.

There is one person who said Parise and Semin are the same and it sure seemed to me like he was saying that in the context of you claiming Parise "carries his team and is a winner" and that Semin doesn't and isn't. In other words, he was bashing your point. So I would say that no one has said Parise and Semin are the same, and if you count that time then it was the only time I'm aware of. To then take that and apply it to everyone who says anything in support of Semin is disingenuous and ridiculous, and particularly so in my case as I've explicitly stated otherwise at every opportunity.

Every team needs floaters, by the way, as generally speaking it is a way to fit into the offense. It can be taken too far, of course, but plenty of elite goal scorers are 'floaters'. If 'floater' is meant by you to imply that all he does is stand around and wait for the puck to come to him, then that is false according to my eyes and according to the numbers that indicate he has a positive impact on linemates both offensively and defensively.

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07-01-2012, 02:00 AM
  #73
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Rob is killing it in this thread.

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07-01-2012, 02:00 AM
  #74
Imlach a cup
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Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Of course it isn't necessary.

I really don't consider myself debunked. I've heard he's an inconsistent floater from people who watch him regularly. I think Parise is a better player than him for his "intangibles". I think most would agree with me. You folks haven't done much to disprove that other than literally saying that him and Parise are the same (then telling me that never happened), and that he's a 40 goal scorer.

It's cool that you feel that way, but step aside and let me get a few meaningless chuckles before I head to sleep.
deal

If our opinions mattered we'd have a scouting staff working for us. And to clear my position:
Dont trade Vanek
I <3 Parise
I <3 Doan
Semin is a perfectly serviceable plan B, we aren't gambling he can change position and we know he can score more than tropp. Plus if it doesn't work out we can fire Darcy and by extension Ruff for failure to achieve managements goals. Win - win?

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07-01-2012, 02:03 AM
  #75
Dreakon
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Plus if it doesn't work out we can fire Darcy and by extension Ruff for failure to achieve managements goals. Win - win?
Well, he helped get rid of Boudreau.

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