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Trading Staal and signing Ryan Suter

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Old
06-30-2012, 11:01 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Trading Staal is a ridiculous notion. Too much "what have you done for me lately" going on here. Staal didn't play at a high level this year and was less than impressive sometimes because of the concussion. So automatically he becomes expendable because people have forgotten how good he is. We have 2 all-star defensemen and 1 future all-star defensemen and people want to trade one. Insane. Find another way to acquire more scoring.
I tend to agree with you but Staal was suffering from cuncussion-related symptoms for a year. This wasn't some little bonk on the head. Is he destined to have a short shelf life or miss a lot of time in the next few years? Of course, no one knows the answers but it might not be the worst idea to trade him while his value may still be high. I remember a year ago, Bruins fans were scoffing at concerns over Savard's concussion status as trade proposals were being thrown around. We could be in the same boat.

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06-30-2012, 11:22 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
why in the world to people want to change a winning formula?

it actually pisses me off. Staal is great.
Armchair GM's. Be glad none of them are Glen Sather.

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07-01-2012, 04:28 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Doing this accomplishes this:
-Mcd, Suter, MDZ down the left, Girardi on the right. So no matter what, you either push McD to the second or Suter...neither makes sense. plus...
-you get to increase you defensive cap by about $3 or 4m. but even though you increased the cap,
-you still haven't addressed the defensive minutes issue. Come next spring Girardi, McD and Suter are still playing 30 minutes a game and exhausted.

Congratulations you increased the cap, didn't address the RHD problem, the minutes played problem and at best turned the 2nd best defensive team into the best defensive team. Those Jennings trophies will look great!
But we landed Jeff Skinner
Duh
Staal, 1st, Miller for Skinner and a 2nd

Skinner - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - UFA/Hagelin
Dubinsky - AA - Cally
Rupp - Boyle - middleweight/ Hagelin

Suter - Girardi
McD - FA
MDZ - Stralman/Erixon/FA/Big Mac
Bickel

This team is a winner (modifications with lines of course)
For many years
Though I doubt we will see it

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07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
  #204
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Quebec/Colorado traded Mats Sundin and Owen Nolan -- back-to-back 1st overall picks -- less than 24 months from winning a Stanley Cup.

They were able to trade them because they had depth up front.

Spare me the BS that trading Staal would crush the organization. If you can get a player like Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash for Marc Staal, you make that trade 1000 times out of 1000 because the Rangers have the depth on defense to make up for his loss.

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07-01-2012, 10:31 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Quebec/Colorado traded Mats Sundin and Owen Nolan -- back-to-back 1st overall picks -- less than 24 months from winning a Stanley Cup.

They were able to trade them because they had depth up front.

Spare me the BS that trading Staal would crush the organization. If you can get a player like Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash for Marc Staal, you make that trade 1000 times out of 1000 because the Rangers have the depth on defense to make up for his loss.
Tell me, where do the Rangers have defensive depth? Where we stand right now, the Rangers have 4 top 6 defensemen and only one plays on the right side.

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07-01-2012, 10:41 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Tell me, where do the Rangers have defensive depth? Where we stand right now, the Rangers have 4 top 6 defensemen and only one plays on the right side.
Have to agree with you. We really don't have all this so called defensive depth and all of our defensemen are virtual clones of each other. Sather really needs to get off his high and mighty horse and do something constructive to improve our offense without decimating the roster.
The question is how to accomplish this now?

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07-01-2012, 10:56 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Tell me, where do the Rangers have defensive depth? Where we stand right now, the Rangers have 4 top 6 defensemen and only one plays on the right side.
The so-called depth you say is lacking seemed to do just fine when Staal missed half a season.

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07-01-2012, 10:58 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The so-called depth you say is lacking seemed to do just fine when Staal missed half a season.
Staal missing half the season is why our D was making mental mistakes from the end of March on, so I disagree with your assessment of "did just fine"

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07-01-2012, 11:02 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Have to agree with you. We really don't have all this so called defensive depth and all of our defensemen are virtual clones of each other. Sather really needs to get off his high and mighty horse and do something constructive to improve our offense without decimating the roster.
The question is how to accomplish this now?
That's like saying, "I want to live in a mansion but I don't feel like paying for it"

The Rangers own three of the top 10-15 d-men from three of the last four drafts. Considering how well Staal, Sauer and Del Zotto turned out, you'd think at least one of them will develop into a 22-25 min a night top-4 guy.

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07-01-2012, 11:03 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Staal missing half the season is why our D was making mental mistakes from the end of March on, so I disagree with your assessment of "did just fine"
The team's record says otherwise.

Wins and losses matter. In-game semantics don't.

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07-01-2012, 11:06 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The team's record says otherwise.

Wins and losses matter. In-game semantics don't.
Stanley cups matter, regular season victories don't mean jack. A big reason why we didn't get out of the ECF was because our D was overworked from the lack of depth.

I'm all for moving D, down the road, but now is not the time.

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07-01-2012, 11:08 PM
  #212
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The defense the Kings just won the Cup with has one legitimate Norris-caliber rearguard, three veterans whose type is available every July 1 or trading deadline, a sophomore and a rookie.

Yet people in this thread will try and make you think you need 4 Norris winners to get past the CF.

Sure.

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07-01-2012, 11:08 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Stanley cups matter, regular season victories don't mean jack. A big reason why we didn't get out of the ECF was because our D was overworked from the lack of depth.

I'm all for moving D, down the road, but now is not the time.
LOL speak of the Devil...read my last post.

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07-01-2012, 11:10 PM
  #214
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The Kings traded "franchise" Team USA Olympian all-world untouchable Jack Johnson for (surprise, surprise) offense annnnnnnnnnd......

Guess what happens next?

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07-01-2012, 11:12 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The team's record says otherwise.

Wins and losses matter. In-game semantics don't.
The team's record does not say otherwise. It actually goes back further than I mentioned, but the Rangers basically played 4w-3l hockey for almost 3 months (March, April, May... Record of 21-20-1). They did many uncharacteristic things in that span, including giving up leads, something you never saw earlier in the year.

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07-01-2012, 11:14 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The Kings traded "franchise" Team USA Olympian all-world untouchable Jack Johnson for (surprise, surprise) offense annnnnnnnnnd......

Guess what happens next?
They traded him because they had Voynov and Martinez ready to take larger roles on the team. If the Rangers have Erixon and McIlrath legitimately ready to take on larger roles, we can talk about trading Staal then. We aren't there yet.

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07-01-2012, 11:17 PM
  #217
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Torts mismanaged the defense last season, thinking you can play 4 d-men for 100 games.

He should take a page out of Keenan's book. The Rangers don't win the Cup without rock solid defense from Lidster and Wells in the last two rounds.

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07-01-2012, 11:22 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The team's record does not say otherwise. It actually goes back further than I mentioned, but the Rangers basically played 4w-3l hockey for almost 3 months (March, April, May... Record of 21-20-1). They did many uncharacteristic things in that span, including giving up leads, something you never saw earlier in the year.
Huh?

Staal missed October, November and December. They were 23-9-4 before Staal played a shift of NHL ice. Hence my comment "seemed to do just fine when Staal missed half a season."

Earlier in the year? As in "Earlier in the year, when Staal wasn't playing"?

I'm not saying Staal is a problem or a solution. I'm saying that the Rangers could trade Staal for offense which puts less pressure on the defense and that Vezina goalie we have back there protecting them

Like those Kings did.

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07-01-2012, 11:23 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Torts mismanaged the defense last season, thinking you can play 4 d-men for 100 games.

He should take a page out of Keenan's book. The Rangers don't win the Cup without rock solid defense from Lidster and Wells in the last two rounds.
Did he mismanage the D or did he not have the horses to play 6 guys at the levels you want? You say one thing, I say the other. We're both saying the same thing in the end. We did not have the depth.

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07-01-2012, 11:24 PM
  #220
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If the Rangers got Suter, Staal would be expendable for Skinner. Not that anyone would like to see Marc elsewhere, but it could be done. No one in NY is sour on Marc, but the Rangers do not have anyone like Skinner either.

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07-01-2012, 11:24 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Huh?

Staal missed October, November and December. They were 23-9-4 before Staal played a shift of NHL ice. Hence my comment "seemed to do just fine when Staal missed half a season."

Earlier in the year? As in "Earlier in the year, when Staal wasn't playing"?

I'm not saying Staal is a problem or a solution. I'm saying that the Rangers could trade Staal for offense which puts less pressure on the defense and that Vezina goalie we have back there protecting them

Like those Kings did.
What's so hard about this? Staal's absence early in the season had a negative effect on the D in the latter part of the season and in the playoffs.

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07-01-2012, 11:25 PM
  #222
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Can we trade fans instead of players?

I can't wait to watch him get back to form next year and remind some people here why he is an integral part of our core.

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07-01-2012, 11:29 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
They traded him because they had Voynov and Martinez ready to take larger roles on the team. If the Rangers have Erixon and McIlrath legitimately ready to take on larger roles, we can talk about trading Staal then. We aren't there yet.
McDonagh, Girardi and Del Zotto are good enough to offset the loss of Staal. Two left and one right. The rest of the bottom three can be filled in with two veterans and a rookie.

Just like the Kings did.

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07-01-2012, 11:38 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
McDonagh, Girardi and Del Zotto are good enough to offset the loss of Staal. Two left and one right. The rest of the bottom three can be filled in with two veterans and a rookie.

Just like the Kings did.
No, that's not how it works. The Kings had Doughty, Scuderi, Johnson, Mitchell, Greene, Voynov, and Martinez before the Carter deal. Voynov and Martinez were both pressing, due to their play, for time in the top 4. That means they had 6 defenseman who could play top 4 minutes immediately. SIX of them.

We have 4 top 4 guys, one guy who is a 7th D and possibly one top 6 guy in Erixon.

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07-01-2012, 11:39 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
What's so hard about this? Staal's absence early in the season had a negative effect on the D in the latter part of the season and in the playoffs.
I'd love to hear you explain that one. I mean, maybe with facts?

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