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Free Agent Frenzy 2012 - ALL NON-RANGER UFA TALK AND SIGNINGS HERE! (PART II)

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Old
07-01-2012, 09:57 PM
  #876
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Lines w gaborik are.. hags-Richards-Gabs. Kreider-step-Callahan. Dubi-AA-?? And well the 4th line is a joke

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07-01-2012, 09:59 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Burying your head in the sand and hoping it goes away isn't solving anything.
nothing any of us does or doesn't do has anything to do with solving or not solving the problem lol

if it did i'd sit here and rant and rave all day long

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07-01-2012, 10:00 PM
  #878
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Bringing someone or two in via ufa could push boyle down to 4th line so we have someone capable there

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07-01-2012, 10:03 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
If that is your third line what are your first and second... when Gaborik is healthy we have Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, Stepan,and if i'm being generous Chris Kreider. If we can get a peice there without getting rid of Dubi sign me up but I don't see it.
XXXX/Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan

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07-01-2012, 10:04 PM
  #880
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Jiri Hudler rumours are worrying me. Most I'd give him personally is $5M over 2 years.

Much rather give Jagr or Mueller a contract.
i really want to take a chance on mueller...if he can stay healthy its a potential steal.

but hudler's 25g, 25a from last year definitely raises an eyebrow...depends on the price obviously but wouldn't be against adding his skill to our depth charts. but hopefully it would be as a secondary scoring move not as our 'top' move after failing to get nash or ryan.

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07-01-2012, 10:07 PM
  #881
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Why are people saying the third line sucks?

XXXX/Hagelin-Anisimov-Dubinsky is an awesome 3rd line.
Third line won't be an issue.

Its the fourth line.

There are 12 forwards dressed in a game. Most teams try to utilize all 12. We can't utilize 9 of them and have 3 useless players logging 3-5 minutes.

Same reason we can't have one of 6 defensemen logging 4 minutes.

Tortorella talked about depth and keeping his top guys healthy and not wearing them out.

As it stands right now, that's exactly what he's looking at unfortunately.

They need to correct a mistake they made today and dump one of Asham or Rupp.

And replace him with a guy (preferably two) who can skate and kill penalties. And contribute to the game.

Releasing some pressure that would otherwise be on the top guys.

If you have Stepan doing the job that the fourth line should be doing, then you get a worn out Stepan later in the season.

If your fourth line guys are your main PKers and guys who take defensive draws, that frees your top guys up to focus on applying pressure on the opposition's defenders and goaltenders...without being injured and worn out half way through a season.

Allows your Stepan(s) to start in the offensive zone taking offensive draws instead.

Would you rather have Stepan blocking shots on the PK looking injured after each one...or have him setting up Kreider for goals on the attacking end of the rink.

Asham and Rupp aren't allowing that to happen.

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07-01-2012, 10:07 PM
  #882
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Hudler would be a nice target..only if he's cheap though. His numbers this year were, to an extent, inflated by spending most of the year on Zetterberg's wing. And Filpula is no slouch himself. Don't think he matches those numbers here in NY.

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07-01-2012, 10:08 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
If that is your third line what are your first and second... when Gaborik is healthy we have Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, Stepan,and if i'm being generous Chris Kreider. If we can get a peice there without getting rid of Dubi sign me up but I don't see it.
'if your being generous'?? you can't be serious. kreider was practically our best forward after he joined the team he is a lock for the top 6

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07-01-2012, 10:08 PM
  #884
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Wha...?

Leaving aside Gabby's injury, which the team will have to deal with for a month or two regardless, the difference between this team and the team that made it to 6 games in the ECF is that:
1) Fedotenko is hanging out still available;
2) we swapped out Prust for Asham; and
3) we lost John Mitchell.

In other words, our goaltending is exactly the same, our defense is exactly the same and among our forwards:
1) our 9th best forward is still an UFA;
2) we made a lateral move to replace our 11th best forward; and
3) we've lost our 12th best forward.
(And we also added a depth guy who will likely play in HFD.)

If we left that roster as-is and simply let the kids compete in camp, that team is pretty darn close to on par with last year's squad (and could be better, depending on the kids). Add any meaningful moves - and you know there will be at least one - and this team is better.

Barring Slats completely losing his marbles and overpaying in a trade, this team will be better next year.

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07-01-2012, 10:13 PM
  #885
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Hudler 3 years 10.1m (3.4m)

Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Ansimov-Hudler
Asham-Boyle-Rupp/Haley?(yuck)

hate the 4th line.

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07-01-2012, 10:13 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Barring Slats completely losing his marbles and overpaying in a trade, this team will be better next year.
Yup. I'm not worried. We'll have Kreider for a full season and Dubinsky (if not traded) will almost certainly have a better year. There's plenty of time to round the team into form.

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07-01-2012, 10:14 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Wha...?

Leaving aside Gabby's injury, which the team will have to deal with for a month or two regardless, the difference between this team and the team that made it to 6 games in the ECF is that:
1) Fedotenko is hanging out still available;
2) we swapped out Prust for Asham; and
3) we lost John Mitchell.

In other words, our goaltending is exactly the same, our defense is exactly the same and among our forwards:
1) our 9th best forward is still an UFA;
2) we made a lateral move to replace our 11th best forward; and
3) we've lost our 12th best forward.
(And we also added a depth guy who will likely play in HFD.)

If we left that roster as-is and simply let the kids compete in camp, that team is pretty darn close to on par with last year's squad (and could be better, depending on the kids). Add any meaningful moves - and you know there will be at least one - and this team is better.

Barring Slats completely losing his marbles and overpaying in a trade, this team will be better next year.
You subtracted one of your top penalty killers for a slower player who does not kill penalties.

That's not an improvement.

They have time to correct the issue.

My concern is they won't correct the issue.

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07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Wha...?

Leaving aside Gabby's injury, which the team will have to deal with for a month or two regardless, the difference between this team and the team that made it to 6 games in the ECF is that:
1) Fedotenko is hanging out still available;
2) we swapped out Prust for Asham; and
3) we lost John Mitchell.

In other words, our goaltending is exactly the same, our defense is exactly the same and among our forwards:
1) our 9th best forward is still an UFA;
2) we made a lateral move to replace our 11th best forward; and
3) we've lost our 12th best forward.
(And we also added a depth guy who will likely play in HFD.)

If we left that roster as-is and simply let the kids compete in camp, that team is pretty darn close to on par with last year's squad (and could be better, depending on the kids). Add any meaningful moves - and you know there will be at least one - and this team is better.

Barring Slats completely losing his marbles and overpaying in a trade, this team will be better next year.
i think losing mitchell may be for the better if we get a competent 3rd line center then boyle gets bumped to the 4th line

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Old
07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
  #889
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Pyatt, Winnik, Langkow, Ferh, Wellwood..I don't care ,just someone to add to that awful 4th line.

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07-01-2012, 10:15 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Third line won't be an issue.

Its the fourth line.

There are 12 forwards dressed in a game. Most teams try to utilize all 12. We can't utilize 9 of them and have 3 useless players logging 3-5 minutes.

Same reason we can't have one of 6 defensemen logging 4 minutes.

Tortorella talked about depth and keeping his top guys healthy and not wearing them out.

As it stands right now, that's exactly what he's looking at unfortunately.

They need to correct a mistake they made today and dump one of Asham or Rupp.

And replace him with a guy (preferably two) who can skate and kill penalties. And contribute to the game.

Releasing some pressure that would otherwise be on the top guys.

If you have Stepan doing the job that the fourth line should be doing, then you get a worn out Stepan later in the season.

If your fourth line guys are your main PKers and guys who take defensive draws, that frees your top guys up to focus on applying pressure on the opposition's defenders and goaltenders...without being injured and worn out half way through a season.

Allows your Stepan's to start in the offensive zone taking offensive draws instead.

Would you rather have Stepan blocking shots on the PK looking injured after each one...or have his setting up Kreider for goals on the attacking end of the rink.

Asham and Rupp aren't allowing that happen.
If we bring in just 2 more forwards (including simply by promoting kids), Boyle gets pushed to the 4th line. By definition that is an improvement on last year's 4th line IMO:

Rupp = Rupp
Boyle > Mitchell
Asham = Prust

If either of Rupp or Asham gets forced to the bench by a kid, an UFA or someone we get in a trade, it gets that much better.

IMO, we are exactly where we were June 30: the only things this team needs to worry about are finding a top 6 winger and a respectable RH defenseman.

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Old
07-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You subtracted one of your top penalty killers for a slower player who does not kill penalties.

That's not an improvement.

They have time to correct the issue.

My concern is they won't correct the issue.
well right now we have dubi, boyle, step, cally, AA, and hags who can all play pk. i know prust was great at the pk but he was too much money and we have other guys could be just as good

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Old
07-01-2012, 10:18 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
'if your being generous'?? you can't be serious. kreider was practically our best forward after he joined the team he is a lock for the top 6
I'm optimistic with CK as well, but lets be honest, he came in after playing a much less grueling season, and was pretty much all around fresh while every other player was slowing down.

He did very, very well. Incredible. That said, the sample size for his work is tiny. We don't know what we'll really get. To call a player who's never played a regulation game a "lock" for the top six is like setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Old
07-01-2012, 10:19 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You subtracted one of your top penalty killers for a slower player who does not kill penalties.

That's not an improvement.

They have time to correct the issue.

My concern is they won't correct the issue.
Most of Prusts PK minutes are going to go back to Dubinsky, who lost time to Stepan last year. We didn't downgrade our PK and Asham is just as effective as Prust at even strength. I don't see the big deal in the swap.

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07-01-2012, 10:22 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
If we bring in just 2 more forwards (including simply by promoting kids), Boyle gets pushed to the 4th line. By definition that is an improvement on last year's 4th line IMO:

Rupp = Rupp
Boyle > Mitchell
Asham = Prust

If either of Rupp or Asham gets forced to the bench by a kid, an UFA or someone we get in a trade, it gets that much better.

IMO, we are exactly where we were June 30: the only things this team needs to worry about are finding a top 6 winger and a respectable RH defenseman.
Rupp = Rupp

Is an issue. Rupp was awful most of the season. He had one stand out game. Winter Classic. He slow, doesn't contribute to special teams, which are CRITICAL in this era the way games are officiated.

Boyle > Mitchell

Ok.

Asham = Prust

No he isn't. Prust was one of our top penalty killers. Asham isn't replacing that. He isn't a penalty killer. He's not contributing to special teams. And he isn't as good a skater. If he isn't contributing to special teams that means he's only playing even strength. How many minutes per game is he going to play? 5? That's a waste of a very important spot in the lineup.

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07-01-2012, 10:23 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You subtracted one of your top penalty killers for a slower player who does not kill penalties.

That's not an improvement.

They have time to correct the issue.

My concern is they won't correct the issue.
Oh, c'mon, SSM - pretty much every forward on this team either does already kill penalties or has the skillset to do it.

Now, if you were talking about subtracting a PP guy, I'd agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
i think losing mitchell may be for the better if we get a competent 3rd line center then boyle gets bumped to the 4th line
Hahaha. Look at what I wrote just below - you didn't give me time to finish my follow up post!

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07-01-2012, 10:25 PM
  #896
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Most of Prusts PK minutes are going to go back to Dubinsky, who lost time to Stepan last year. We didn't downgrade our PK and Asham is just as effective as Prust at even strength. I don't see the big deal in the swap.
The problem is having two guys in the lineup who will average 5-8 minutes per game. That's not enough. That's two wasted lineup positions.

Two guys who can play a regular shift AND contribute to special teams increasing their time to 10+ minutes takes a tremendous amount of strain off of guys like Stepan and Dubinsky.

That helps the team last longer in a marathon season.

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07-01-2012, 10:28 PM
  #897
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We just finished a season with these exact issues being the exact reason we didn't get past game six and got that far by the skin of our teeth.

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07-01-2012, 10:29 PM
  #898
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We will not have 9 effective forwards. Right now, that's what we have. This team will be getting another forward or two for the line-up. There will be youngsters that might push their way into the line-up as well. Remember when Hagelin was going to need a year in the AHL? We have players that can make that jump onto the lower lines in the NHL:

Yogan
Thomas
Miller
Wellman

These players will have a chance to make the team. Asham and Rupp will not stop them, but they will be there if none of them step up.

This team will add a forward regardless of getting Nash or not.

Del Zotto will get around 2.5-3 million. Stralman will get a decent raise around 1.25-1.5 million if he stays. If not, his replacement will get around the same an upwards of 2 million. The team will have around 10-12 million to add to the rest of the roster, but my guess is they'll want to go short term and add guys on 1 year deals with Stepan, Anisimov, Hagelin, McDonagh, and Sauer being RFA's after next season.

The sky is not falling. The team has options. Players will come here for a chance to win the Cup. Doan, Jagr, Mueller, and Semin will be legit targets if Nash is passed on, but they will have to act quickly after Parise and Suter sign. The market will dry up quickly as those players will find homes after their decisions are made.

The trade market might open up as well. Nash and Ryan won't be the only options out there, but will be the best players on the market.

If there are no roll backs and the cap goes down, teams will have to get under the cap. There will be options from those teams as well. Some direct competitors of the Rangers, other not. Might be able to get a solid player from a team fairly cheap.

It's July 1st. The team knows what they need and Asham and Haley are good depth players. Nothing wrong with bringing them in as part time players. If things work the right way, Asham or Rupp will not be in the regular line-up if that is the case. You don't have to be the best team at the start of the season, just the best at the end.

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07-01-2012, 10:29 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The problem is having two guys in the lineup who will average 5-8 minutes per game. That's not enough. That's two wasted lineup positions.

Two guys who can play a regular shift AND contribute to special teams increasing their time to 10+ minutes takes a tremendous amount of strain off of guys like Stepan and Dubinsky.

That helps the team last longer in a marathon season.
As I said earlier, I think Asham is here as Rupp's replacement. I mean Rupp didn't even fight that much last year.

The question is do you think Asham is better than Rupp?

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07-01-2012, 10:30 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The problem is having two guys in the lineup who will average 5-8 minutes per game. That's not enough. That's two wasted lineup positions.

Two guys who can play a regular shift AND contribute to special teams increasing their time to 10+ minutes takes a tremendous amount of strain off of guys like Stepan and Dubinsky.

That helps the team last longer in a marathon season.
I somewhat agree. But all teams, including the ones that just made it to the SCF, have forwards who don't play over 10 minutes. I think you're overreacting. If we have a competent 3rd line, it's not such a worry. This, by the way, is what Tortorella was referring to as depth. Rupp-Boyle-Prust would've been a fantastic 4th line in the playoffs. The problem is that 2 of those players were playing on the 3rd line with another 4th liner (Fedotenko)

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