Hmm not sure you can lump them all together. I'd separate into 3 categories.
Gritty that can drop the gloves: Moen, Prust, White, Schultz (AHL)
Gritty that hit a lot but don't fight: Emelin, Bouillon (assuming he still has it at the age of 37)
Gritty that hit and agitate but don't/not good at fighting: Armstrong, Dumont (AHL/NHL split), Blunden (AHL)
I agree with that.
What if I lump them all together under the label "annoying to play against"?
Just because it is free agent time does not mean you have to overpay. At then their is the term...fine $2.5 for maybe 2 years, but 4? That is way to much.
But why is that too much? See, 4 years for Jagr is too much. 4 years for Whitney would be too much. 4 years for a guy whose purpose is to be extremely effective scoring goals, skating fast and being a key contributor offensively, when he migth only be able to do it for 1 or 2 years, then YES, 4 years is too much 'cause for the rest of the 2 years...he will serve NO purpose and can't play on a bottom 6 role. But Prust will always be able to serve his purpose. And at worst, he'll be EXTREMELY tradeable in due time 'cause the cap isn't THAT bad, and the amount of money in the end won't be THAT dramatic for a team like to boost a lineup IF we don't make the playoffs. So, I really don't see a problem. Contrary to Moen, Prust has not shown one bit of slowing down in his "proactiveness" and aggression factor. So we are not paying a guy on his downside. Geez, off all the moves, it's the one I have the less problem with. This is a statement we're making. Not a 1 year stop gap in waiting of betting things. It's a way of saying that we're going after guys who will look to respect this jersey for quite some time. And we will be looking for other players like him in the future. Great signing.
Extremely happy about this signing. Yep, it's too much, but for whoever thinks that here's 2 things afor you.
1-Duh! It's UFA time...why the **** are people keep saying it's too much when they want to see some movement at that time, and when the UFA period is usually about paying people TOO MUCH. Then, you add the fact that once people realize Montreal is not THAT hot of a destination based on the fact that we don't win cups every year, that's there are taxes and pressure and so on well again...super duh!, yes, it's too much. But either you want to pay too much, either you shut up about wanting some players at the UFA period. You can't have both. And the day you have both it will mean that you're living in a WINNING city, with WINNING condition. We most likely NEVER going to have winning conditions, so we must build a winning team before hoping we don't pay TOO MUCH.
2- That's the price you pay for things YOU DON'T HAVE. And most likely every team will end up doing it. Some with better results than others. But when you are looking for something in specifics, can't draft them, can't wait for them, or whatever, you pay a little more to be sure you'll get a better mix.
Great signing, this guy is not goon, can contribute, plays on the PK, with Moen and Prust, you do have at least 2 guys that might diminuish some of our "stars" PK time so that they concentrate on scoring goals instead.
I like Prust, and think along with White and Moen we've got a great trio of bottom 6 wingers for the conceiveable future....
I just worry about when we play the Bruins, and since he's our new "tough guy", combined with the fact he's about 5'11" 190lbs, Lucic and Co are going to go after him. We do need another goon to sit in the presser but dress for when we play the Bruins. For Prusts sake, it wouldn't be fair to put him out there, he's got too much heart to back down but he physically can't stand up to those guys...
I for one wouldn't mind BGL one bit, he's a popular guy, is great pals with Subban, and he can fight the Lucics and CHaras of the world. I'd rotate him in for Nokia and have White play center on those nights.
Last edited by hogtownhabsfan: 07-01-2012 at 10:10 PM.
As others have pointed out, the thing I love about this signing compared to Moen & other recent signings is the TERM. 4 years is what makes the overpaying for him worthwhile.
Prust is super young compared to Moen. Prust is just coming into his prime. We have him signed for his best years, he's got just enough experience, knows enough about the league and he's got muscle maturity to make stuff happen and a little maturity to get under people's skin.
Whereas, I like Moen but he's getting past his prime. In 4 years, at the end of his contract, he'll be over the hill.
Well it gives us depth in our bottom 9, Prust is solid defensively and will stand up for his teammates. Not enchanted by the contract, but our bottom 9 definitely looks better with him than without him.
But we're not going to persuade each other. Both too committed to our current positions to concede. If you think Prust is worth a million more per year than his play as hockey player or position in the depth chart warrants because he's tough that's your prerogative. But I think you want to invest in tiger repelling rocks.
better "waisting" 1M$ of a 70M$ cap on a guy who is among the best in the league in his role (bottom-6 gritty player who can actually play meaningful minutes and defend his teammates at all costs), then "waisting" 2-3-4M$ as we have in recent years on "skilled" players who perform as poorly as Gomez/Kaberle/Bourque.
2.5M$ is steep, but if he plays the way he has the past 2 years in N.Y (or even continues to improve, b/c this guy has steadily improved over the past 4-5 seasons... he's lightyears ahead of the player he was in Calgary a few seasons ago), then he will be giving our team an element we sorely needed and at a cap hit that won't be very difficult to account for.
Gomez or Kaberle under performing on massive cap hits hurts far more than a 2-3M$ player under performing (and this assumes he will underperform) b/c it seriously impacts the ability to spend elsewhere.
i'm a believer that every dollar counts, and a bad contract is a bad contract, but I think Prust has at least a decent shot at giving us solid value at his cap hit, and the downside if he doesn't isn't big enough to warrant excessive "negative nancy" comments on signing day.
I like Prust, and think along with White and Moen we've got a great trio of bottom 6 wingers for the conceiveable future....
I just worry about when we play the Bruins, and since he's our new "tough guy", combined with the fact he's about 5'11" 190lbs, Lucic and Co are going to go after him. We do need another goon to sit in the presser but dress for when we play the Bruins. For Prusts sake, it wouldn't be fair to put him out there, he's got too much heart to back down but he physically can't stand up to those guys...
I for one wouldn't mind BGL one bit, he's a popular guy, is great pals with Subban, and he can fight the Lucics and CHaras of the world. I'd rotate him in for Nokia and have White play center on those nights.
You thinking like me , John Scott got 600,000 from Sabres, Give BGL less and he looks after the big time tugs,and have Prust just do what he does. Awesome 1 -2 tandem to have.
Best part of this deal is HOPEFULLY this can take some away from Plekenac, and allow him to play more offense which the guy got some big time offensive ability.
Moen is an even greater signing, love both players! Our forward corps is a lot better even though we only signed bottom 6 players, I wish everybody saw that; we can now really play to our players strengths.
Sure we would need a punishing D and a skilled top 6 winger but it's already pretty good! Jagr would be perfect, and the talk seems somewhat credible. If we managed to get him and move one or more of Kaberle, Weber and Diaz and sign a replacement then we're in business !
Nothing to be excited about a player scoring 5 goals last season. 5 goals in 82 regular games and 1 goal in 19 playoff games !
And he's not even 6"2, nor over 200 lbs.
I hope that he can play defense and kill penalties, if not
better "waisting" 1M$ of a 70M$ cap on a guy who is among the best in the league in his role (bottom-6 gritty player who can actually play meaningful minutes and defend his teammates at all costs), then "waisting" 2-3-4M$ as we have in recent years on "skilled" players who perform as poorly as Gomez/Kaberle/Bourque.
2.5M$ is steep, but if he plays the way he has the past 2 years in N.Y (or even continues to improve, b/c this guy has steadily improved over the past 4-5 seasons... he's lightyears ahead of the player he was in Calgary a few seasons ago), then he will be giving our team an element we sorely needed and at a cap hit that won't be very difficult to account for.
Gomez or Kaberle under performing on massive cap hits hurts far more than a 2-3M$ player under performing (and this assumes he will underperform) b/c it seriously impacts the ability to spend elsewhere.
i'm a believer that every dollar counts, and a bad contract is a bad contract, but I think Prust has at least a decent shot at giving us solid value at his cap hit, and the downside if he doesn't isn't big enough to warrant excessive "negative nancy" comments on signing day.
guess we'll see...
For one thing there is an upside to overpaying for skill that there isn't for overpaying for depth.
For the other, its because Montreal has a bunch of underperforming salary on the books that they can't diddle around tossing money to luxuries like Prust. They have serious needs, especially on LW that need addressing where 1 million can be the difference between getting someone serviceable or not given how tight Montreal's cap situation is going to be this summer.
Take Prust's salary and add what you paid for another depth D in Bouillion and you have 4 million. The price of a middle-tier player in this market like Souray or Parenteau or Penner. That's where the team really needs help right now.
Also Prust's biggest advantage over normal 4th liners as a player is that he's a good PK winger. Something the team had absolutely no need for with current personnel. In generally I reject the idea the team desperately needed Prust. I think his value to the squad is getting vastly over-stated.
My prefered alternative is something like McClement. 2 years shorter term, 1 million less and a solid defensive center that would solidify the 4th line. That was an actual need. With Prust we're talking about sub-optimally shifting over a winger or playing Nokialainen to center the 4th unit.
As others have pointed out, the thing I love about this signing compared to Moen & other recent signings is the TERM. 4 years is what makes the overpaying for him worthwhile.
Prust is super young compared to Moen. Prust is just coming into his prime. We have him signed for his best years, he's got just enough experience, knows enough about the league and he's got muscle maturity to make stuff happen and a little maturity to get under people's skin.
Whereas, I like Moen but he's getting past his prime. In 4 years, at the end of his contract, he'll be over the hill.
Nothing to be excited about a player scoring 5 goals last season. 5 goals in 82 regular games and 1 goal in 19 playoff games !
And he's not even 6"2, nor over 200 lbs.
I hope that he can play defense and kill penalties, if not
Have you ever watched Prust play before you try to rant on like that?
Obviously not .
Next time you insinuate to have blown your top, KNOW the facts.
I'll give ya a little rag to chew on , Pierre McGuire called him the best Pk man in NHL.....now even if that is not 100% true, it's darn good.
On top of his 20 FIGHTS last year
Quote:
Prust, 28, notched 17 points (5 goals, 12 assists) in 82 games with the New York Rangers in 2011-12.The left winger tallied two of his goals on the penalty kill and added as many winning goals. He ranked first on the Rangers and was tied for sixth in the NHL with 156 penalty minutes. Prustrecorded 68 shots on goal, 144 hits and 51 blocked shots, with an average of11:56 of ice time per game.
Since his debut in 2006-07, Prust has recorded 63 points (24 goals, 39 assists) in 279 NHL regular-season games. The 6’0’’, 192lbs forward has scored seven of his goals on the penalty kill and added as many winning goals.
Bowman wasn't kidding when he said Bergevin "wasn't a numbers guy"
Bergevin always had to overpay to fix our grit problem. In my opinion this is perfect. We signed three players within the cap increase without even touching our roster. Our bottom two lines are made of:
Moen - Eller - Armstrong
Prust - Nokelainen - White
Now we have the Gomez money to play with knowing that there's no room for him in the lineup. So this doesn't reflect poorly on his numbers ability. We have two needs - a top 6 forward and a top 4 defenseman. If we look at Bourque and Kaberle's salaries which would come off the books if we traded them to make room to fill those two needs, we have a hell of a lot of cap space to make an impact in those two positions.
Either by trade or UFA.
The only question that I have is how are we going to deal with fitting Desharnais, Plekanec and Gionta on two lines. Either way we'll have a size issue on one of them.
I get your point though, but anyway you cut it, Moen can now have a more seasoned vet approach while White and Prust bloom as defensive pillars for our team, also good news to Plekanek and Gionta who can focus on more offensive-minded assignments, and so on...
For one thing there is an upside to overpaying for skill that there isn't for overpaying for depth.
For the other, its because Montreal has a bunch of underperforming salary on the books that they can't diddle around tossing money to luxuries like Prust. They have serious needs, especially on LW that need addressing where 1 million can be the difference between getting someone serviceable or not given how tight Montreal's cap situation is going to be this summer.
Take Prust's salary and add what you paid for another depth D in Bouillion and you have 4 million. The price of a middle-tier player in this market like Souray or Parenteau or Penner. That's where the team really needs help right now.
Also Prust's biggest advantage over normal 4th liners as a player is that he's a good PK winger. Something the team had absolutely no need for with current personnel. In generally I reject the idea the team desperately needed Prust. I think his value to the squad is getting vastly over-stated.
My prefered alternative is something like McClement. 2 years shorter term, 1 million less and a solid defensive center that would solidify the 4th line. That was an actual need. With Prust we're talking about sub-optimally shifting over a winger or playing Nokialainen to center the 4th unit.
Obviously adding skill is the #1 priority, but let's get real here.
there is no upside to overpaying for anyone who underperforms...
the risk with overpaying for skill, is that if they underperform (as with Gomez), then it is incredibly difficult to (re)move them from the roster.
Plekanec was a big part of our PK, but it is certainly fair to suggest that relying on him as a primary PK player impacted his performance in other areas. In key times, no problem, but over the course of an 82 game season, having quality PK players that aren't also supposed to be key top-6 contributors is a good thing... Nothing wrong with adding a bottom-6 player who is a quality PKer, let alone having several of them (Moen, Prust, Armstrong...)
McClement would have been a decent addition, I agree, but Prust brings more to the table than McClement does, that's part of why he was holding out for the kind of deal we gave him (Rangers had a 3 year-6M$ deal on the table that he turned down apparently... giving him 500k more/year and 1 extra year isn't, imo, a gross overpayment by any means).
Habs, wether one chooses to acknowledge it or not, have had serious issues with getting pushed around and with being "easy" to play against. Yes, those aspects tend to get exaggerated at times, but that's not to say that they aren't issues.
It's a contact sport, intimidation is a very real element, and having enough players willing/capable of playing a physical game & stand up for them as needed is a very tangible benefit... one the habs sorely lacked under Gainey/Gauthier.
Prust/Armstrong/Moen/White... all guys that are tough and can play quality hockey (even if not top-6 "skill" level). in today's NHL that's a very nice asset to have (far better than Gainey's attempt to address the issue by signing the lone Laraque, or Gauthier's attempt in signing the lone Staubitz).
A little expensive, and the term is a bit much for a player of his type but it is something Montreal sorely lacks.
One thing is for sure, i am glad to see some toughness brought back into the lineup. Whether this will be a Bergevin trademark, time will tell. At least you see players fitting into roles tho unlike we've seen in the past. How many defenseman have played forward? Small finesse players on the fourth line? Darche on the top line?
