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Free Agent Frenzy 2012 - ALL NON-RANGER UFA TALK AND SIGNINGS HERE! (PART II)

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07-02-2012, 12:01 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
I believe that the odds are the same that Nash would score 45 as Dubi scoring 25. Kreider... Great in the playoffs. Did he prove that he is the goods? Too small a sample for me.

I suspect that if Sather falls prey to your opinion then no real deal will be consumated.

We're both guessing. Do i believe Nash is worth the dollars on this team giving up a Dubi, picks, a prospect? To me, a no brainer.
The difference is if Dubi looks like he's not going to score 20-25, we can always re-assess and make a move at the trade deadline (where more players will be available, and we'll have a better idea of what we have in Kreider and a few of our other prospects). You pull the trigger on Nash and he turns out to be no better here than he is in Columbus? You're stuck with that albatross of a contract for 7 years--all of Lundqvist's prime and then some. My gamble involves taking a chance that can be easily rectified in 6 months if I'm wrong. Your gamble is an all or nothing situation. If you're wrong, the team's Cup window is slammed shut almost before it was even opened.

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07-02-2012, 12:03 AM
  #952
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The difference is if Dubi looks like he's not going to score 20-25, we can always re-assess and make a move at the trade deadline (where more players will be available, and we'll have a better idea of what we have in Kreider and a few of our other prospects). You pull the trigger on Nash and he turns out to be no better here than he is in Columbus? You're stuck with that albatross of a contract for 7 years--all of Lundqvist's prime and then some. My gamble involves taking a chance that can be easily rectified in 6 months if I'm wrong. Your gamble is an all or nothing situation. If you're wrong, the team's Cup window is slammed shut almost before it was even opened.
that would depend what we give up. You do make a good point though. I'm honestly ok either way I won't complain if we don't get him and I wont complain if we do

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07-02-2012, 12:05 AM
  #953
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Jags to a 1 year 3-4 mil Contract? What do you think?

OK before everybody starts to bury me with the he's washed up comments or whatever hear me out please!
I know he's 40 and injury prone, yes i know! lets start with that. I am a big fan of what Jagr did when he was on Broadway, and i respect the man a lot for giving us rangers fans what he gave us after the lockout a sort of rejuvenation... hell he started the salute to the crowd after the game to thank rangers fans for not giving up on them(and him), I think that his MVP season in 05-06 that took us to our first playoff birth in forever was a big part of what lead us to what we have today and yes times have changed and he is older, but i think for a 1 year cap hit, (possibly not if the rumors of the new CBA are true that any player over 40 does not effect cap) he's a great addition to whatever the team may look like when the free agency dust settles...whether we land nash/perry/parise(highly doubt last one) he would make a great addition to any line combo, imagine seeing how a Gabby/Richards/Jags line would fair....i mean if you want to add depth to a team and provide secondary scoring for relatively cheap short term contract you cant ask for better i think, just his punch on the power play and his veteran presence in the locker room i think is worth the money...with all that said hoping that he would stay healthy for at least 3/4 of the season and playoffs...I think Jagr played on the Rangers with heart, and every time he was on the ice, he tried something, if you look at game by game stats it shows it in black and white (his ranger record 54 goals was pretty awesome) you have to admit.

Let me know what you think...I'm just saying regardless of how you look at the guy, he is a hall of famer, and our young guys would definitely benefit from his mentoring...( just and example, you remember Prucha, when Jags took him under his wing...kid had if im not mistaken like 27-30 goals his rookie season)


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07-02-2012, 12:05 AM
  #954
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I've read it, u Mr telling me Nash won't add at least 5 goals playing with us? That is still a 35/70 player which helps us tremendously
Seriously--that almost never happens. You can count the number of guys who drastically improved stats after a trade on one hand. Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

What concerns me is that Nash's production has been in decline for four straight years. Why do you automatically assume THAT will change. There's no excuse (supporting cast or the other nonsense) that Columbus fans could come up with that explains four straight seasons of declining production.

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07-02-2012, 12:14 AM
  #955
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I forgot who tweeted this but he has 21 suitors. Whitney just got two years at $4.5M per. That set the bar and I don't see him signing for less in either years or salary given how many teams are interested.

I would love to have him, but I doubt we will be able to match his contract demands. Nor should we.

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07-02-2012, 12:16 AM
  #956
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I would definitely bite on Jagr.

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07-02-2012, 12:20 AM
  #957
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Lack of a competent supporting cast isn't exactly "nonsense". It may be sensastionalized to a degree, but it brings up a legitimate point - what if Columbus could provide Nash with some real top-6 talent? I think, in this instance, the excuse may be legitimate, if it can be considered an excuse. Nash is very talented, but he isn't Claude Giroux or Evgeni Malkin. I don't expect 50 goals from Nash at this point in his career, but with a new organization, 40 is a strong possibility, IMHO.

Anothr thing to consider: Nash's motivation to perform for a team that has proven they are incapable or providing any type of a consistent supporting cast. It's been 10 years there for Nash and the team has yet to win a playoff game. Part of the blame could go to Nash, but that's only if you expect him to carry your team through the season. He is not that type of player. Columbus misjudged him, and Nash paid for it, as did management, over and over and over again.

Nash comes with his flaws and concerns, but there's no reason to believe that he would be incapable of 40g/75p on a better team - a much better one at that. Of course, there's the risk that he stagnates and is a 30g/60p player. I'm not saying whether either one will happen. All I'm saying is that the "excuses" for Nash can be considered legitimate explanations for his recent fall in production.

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07-02-2012, 12:21 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I forgot who tweeted this but he has 21 suitors. Whitney just got two years at $4.5M per. That set the bar and I don't see him signing for less in either years or salary given how many teams are interested.
yes you are probably right, and i do agree that the bar has been set by that signing, but I read an article off yardbarker.com, that noted jagr saying "He will always have a soft spot for the NYR, and what they did for his career when everybody gave up on him, the nyr and most impotantly the garden faithfull fans are what brought him to believe in himself again" Also i don't think it is all about money for him, because he has pleanty of it, if it was money he wouldn't have signed with philly last year because he had better offers on the table from both nhl and khl teams...for him its about where he can win maybe a last championship and where he would enjoy finishing his career...The rangers def proved they have what it takes to go all the way last season if the right parts oil together...

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07-02-2012, 12:21 AM
  #959
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I want jagr back but 3 million per is pushing it

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07-02-2012, 12:24 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by nyrmike88 View Post
yes you are probably right, and i do agree that the bar has been set by that signing, but I read an article off yardbarker.com, that noted jagr saying "He will always have a soft spot for the NYR, and what they did for his career when everybody gave up on him, the nyr and most impotantly the garden faithfull fans are what brought him to believe in himself again" Also i don't think it is all about money for him, because he has pleanty of it, if it was money he wouldn't have signed with philly last year because he had better offers on the table from both nhl and khl teams...for him its about where he can win maybe a last championship and where he would enjoy finishing his career...The rangers def proved they have what it takes to go all the way last season if the right parts oil together...
We're going to need for him to have a really big soft spot for us then because we're not offering two years and it's very doubtful we'd offer $4.5M lol.

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07-02-2012, 12:26 AM
  #961
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Gaborik hasn't scored 50 yet but he did have his career year here as well as scoring 40+ twice already when he only scored 40+ once with the Wild.

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07-02-2012, 12:29 AM
  #962
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Gaborik hasn't scored 50 yet but he did have his career year here as well as scoring 40+ twice already when he only scored 40+ once with the Wild.
yea i get it, but i wasnt saying to replace gabby, but give him another playmaker to set him up... maybe then he will hit 50+...also im really terrified of his new shoulder injury...thats really a hard injury and a career killer for alot...hoping for the best...

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07-02-2012, 12:35 AM
  #963
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Gaborik hasn't scored 50 yet but he did have his career year here as well as scoring 40+ twice already when he only scored 40+ once with the Wild.
That was more about him staying healthy. He didn't do anything he wasn't capable of doing in Minnesota. He just made it through the entire season.

Again--If a trade for Nash goes through, I'll find a way to put these concerns behind me and hope to hell I'm wrong, but there is a LOT that the pro-Nash crowd on these boards is willing to overlook/ignore.

-Overpaid
-Comes with excuses rather than production
-Known attitude problems (ask any Columbus fan about the "Country club" attitude in their locker room and where that attitude originates)
-Will cost cheap young assets.

Does this sound eerily familiar to anyone else (over the age of 25)? Nash is exactly the kind of player the Rangers of 1998-2005 would have LOVED. Remind me again how often those players worked out?

Management has done so well just by being patient up to this point. I want them to be patient just a little while longer. Pick up another piece or two in UFA or on the reasonable trade market (maybe Doan or Hudler and trade a 2nd rounder for Robidas). Get into the season. Find out what we have in Kreider. See if Callahan can repeat his performance from last year. See how MDZ, Stepan, Hagelin, Erixon etc all progress. See if Dubinsky rebounds. When we know more about what we have, THEN we can think about making a deadline trade to address any needs for a Cup run. Making a rash move now will make us more likely to ship out pieces that, in retrospect, we should be keeping.

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07-02-2012, 12:38 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
That was more about him staying healthy. He didn't do anything he wasn't capable of doing in Minnesota. He just made it through the entire season.

Again--If a trade for Nash goes through, I'll find a way to put these concerns behind me and hope to hell I'm wrong, but there is a LOT that the pro-Nash crowd on these boards is willing to overlook/ignore.

-Overpaid
-Comes with excuses rather than production
-Known attitude problems (ask any Columbus fan about the "Country club" attitude in their locker room and where that attitude originates)
-Will cost cheap young assets.

Does this sound eerily familiar to anyone else (over the age of 25)? Nash is exactly the kind of player the Rangers of 1998-2005 would have LOVED. Remind me again how often those players worked out?

Management has done so well just by being patient up to this point. I want them to be patient just a little while longer. Pick up another piece or two in UFA or on the reasonable trade market (maybe Doan or Hudler and trade a 2nd rounder for Robidas). Get into the season. Find out what we have in Kreider. See if Callahan can repeat his performance from last year. See how MDZ, Stepan, Hagelin, Erixon etc all progress. See if Dubinsky rebounds. When we know more about what we have, THEN we can think about making a deadline trade to address any needs for a Cup run. Making a rash move now will make us more likely to ship out pieces that, in retrospect, we should be keeping.
Yeah but they'll deny it until he's traded. Right now you'd think he's Jesus over there

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07-02-2012, 12:44 AM
  #965
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Lack of a competent supporting cast isn't exactly "nonsense". It may be sensastionalized to a degree, but it brings up a legitimate point - what if Columbus could provide Nash with some real top-6 talent?
I think the entire excuse is overblown. Nash HAS had top 6 talent. Not world beaters. Not the teammates he has on team Canada, but definitely top-6. Brassard, Huselius, Umberger, Voracek, Carter, Prospal, Vyborny etc? These are ALL good 2nd line players. Columbus hasn't had any other FIRST line players beyond Nash (and Vyborny back in his prime), but they would have us believe that they have Nash and a pack of fourth liners. That interpretation is indeed "nonsense." What Nash has had in terms of a supporting cast is no worse (and frankly is much better than) Kunitz and Dupuis. It's much better than Parenteau and Moulson. Yet for some reason, Nash can never do what Crosby or Tavares do in terms of production.

Nash can only seem to put up top end production on Team Canada, and that's because Team Canada doesn't really NEED Nash. We aren't Team Canada. We can't give him those players and those easier matchups with all-star linemates. Don't expect Nash to come in here and be something that he's never been in the NHL. You'll be disappointed.

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07-02-2012, 12:44 AM
  #966
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That was more about him staying healthy. He didn't do anything he wasn't capable of doing in Minnesota. He just made it through the entire season.

Again--If a trade for Nash goes through, I'll find a way to put these concerns behind me and hope to hell I'm wrong, but there is a LOT that the pro-Nash crowd on these boards is willing to overlook/ignore.

-Overpaid
-Comes with excuses rather than production
-Known attitude problems (ask any Columbus fan about the "Country club" attitude in their locker room and where that attitude originates)
-Will cost cheap young assets.

Does this sound eerily familiar to anyone else (over the age of 25)? Nash is exactly the kind of player the Rangers of 1998-2005 would have LOVED. Remind me again how often those players worked out?

Management has done so well just by being patient up to this point. I want them to be patient just a little while longer. Pick up another piece or two in UFA or on the reasonable trade market (maybe Doan or Hudler and trade a 2nd rounder for Robidas). Get into the season. Find out what we have in Kreider. See if Callahan can repeat his performance from last year. See how MDZ, Stepan, Hagelin, Erixon etc all progress. See if Dubinsky rebounds. When we know more about what we have, THEN we can think about making a deadline trade to address any needs for a Cup run. Making a rash move now will make us more likely to ship out pieces that, in retrospect, we should be keeping.
I have to agree with you 150%...I honestly do not see this "country club attitude" flying with Torts and our grind it out club...If he dosent buy into Torts Program than we are looking at a serious 6 year Hole, or buyout...yes i understand that every star player in his catogory comes with risks, but i think that this guy is just a 50/50 chance at most with gelling in our type of system...Richie baught into it because of his history with Torts, and his willingness to not be a stuck up veteran, u can see that by his post game interviews, just like torts he's all about business, we saw what he can do when he found his game towards the end of the season....my opinion, screw nash and his country club and trade for Corey Perry

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07-02-2012, 12:49 AM
  #967
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Yeah but they'll deny it until he's traded. Right now you'd think he's Jesus over there
Oh they admit it. They just claim that it will disappear as soon as he leaves Columbus, to be replaced by a heretofore unseen warrior spirit that will carry his new team to the promised land, haha. I swear, I am in awe of what the pro-Nash crowd can overlook when drooling over the idea of Nash in a Rangers sweater. It sort of reminds me of when my sister-in-law's sister fell in love with a 30 year old guy who worked in a burger joint. Everyone could tell that the guy was going nowhere in life and was perfectly content with that. She was convinced that he would be a totally different person just by the grace of her presence. Long story short--she's not a magical creature and she couldn't transform him into anything different from what he always was. They broke up after two months and she stank of chicken nuggets for a couple months after that.

Nash has that chicken nugget stink of failure on him, and I'd rather it didn't reek up our locker room.

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07-02-2012, 12:50 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Management has done so well just by being patient up to this point. I want them to be patient just a little while longer. Pick up another piece or two in UFA or on the reasonable trade market (maybe Doan or Hudler and trade a 2nd rounder for Robidas). Get into the season. Find out what we have in Kreider. See if Callahan can repeat his performance from last year. See how MDZ, Stepan, Hagelin, Erixon etc all progress. See if Dubinsky rebounds. When we know more about what we have, THEN we can think about making a deadline trade to address any needs for a Cup run. Making a rash move now will make us more likely to ship out pieces that, in retrospect, we should be keeping.
You are making too much sense.
This team was within 2 games of the SC, with Gabby and Dubi injured part of the playoffs. I am for some tweaks, but not gutting the team.

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07-02-2012, 12:52 AM
  #969
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As an established player getting paid like elite talent Nash is valued by his current production not potential. Fair or not, that's how the market works. Excuses, valid or not, on why he is not producing up to his contract, are just that. Excuses.

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07-02-2012, 12:54 AM
  #970
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Oh they admit it. They just claim that it will disappear as soon as he leaves Columbus, to be replaced by a heretofore unseen warrior spirit that will carry his new team to the promised land, haha. I swear, I am in awe of what the pro-Nash crowd can overlook when drooling over the idea of Nash in a Rangers sweater. It sort of reminds me of when my sister-in-law's sister fell in love with a 30 year old guy who worked in a burger joint. Everyone could tell that the guy was going nowhere in life and was perfectly content with that. She was convinced that he would be a totally different person just by the grace of her presence. Long story short--she's not a magical creature and she couldn't transform him into anything different from what he always was. They broke up after two months and she stank of chicken nuggets for a couple months after that.

Nash has that chicken nugget stink of failure on him, and I'd rather it didn't reek up our locker room.
Yeah I agree...I mean I really want chicken nuggets right now, but I agree

We need to realize that if acquire Rick Nash, we're acquiring Rick Nash, not some second coming of Gretzky that Nash "could" be on a different team.

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07-02-2012, 12:57 AM
  #971
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That was more about him staying healthy. He didn't do anything he wasn't capable of doing in Minnesota. He just made it through the entire season.

Again--If a trade for Nash goes through, I'll find a way to put these concerns behind me and hope to hell I'm wrong, but there is a LOT that the pro-Nash crowd on these boards is willing to overlook/ignore.

-Overpaid
-Comes with excuses rather than production
-Known attitude problems (ask any Columbus fan about the "Country club" attitude in their locker room and where that attitude originates)
-Will cost cheap young assets.

Does this sound eerily familiar to anyone else (over the age of 25)? Nash is exactly the kind of player the Rangers of 1998-2005 would have LOVED. Remind me again how often those players worked out?

Management has done so well just by being patient up to this point. I want them to be patient just a little while longer. Pick up another piece or two in UFA or on the reasonable trade market (maybe Doan or Hudler and trade a 2nd rounder for Robidas). Get into the season. Find out what we have in Kreider. See if Callahan can repeat his performance from last year. See how MDZ, Stepan, Hagelin, Erixon etc all progress. See if Dubinsky rebounds. When we know more about what we have, THEN we can think about making a deadline trade to address any needs for a Cup run. Making a rash move now will make us more likely to ship out pieces that, in retrospect, we should be keeping.
You've basically summed up my thoughts in one post.

100% agree.

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07-02-2012, 01:01 AM
  #972
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You are making too much sense.
This team was within 2 games of the SC, with Gabby and Dubi injured part of the playoffs. I am for some tweaks, but not gutting the team.
These "pro nash fans" are just as you say it...fans...they do not understand the art of crafting a team...and thinking long term instead of short term...I smell not just nuggets off this guy, but the stench of Gomez, Drury, Holik, Lindros etc...this would be an old school sather type deal...i really hope sather dosen't crack under pressure and do something as stupid as get rid of our amazingly youthful longterm youth...we have the perfect team, that just need certain pieces added to be a championship team, but not at the cost of young talent like DZ, Kreider, Mcdonagh etc...Dubbie as much as i love the guy is a piece that can be forfited...We need to add a little scoring depth and maybe a quaterback Defenceman for the power play...how i would love to get suter, and perry...( maybe jags short term for some extra depth while our youth develops)

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07-02-2012, 01:03 AM
  #973
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That was more about him staying healthy. He didn't do anything he wasn't capable of doing in Minnesota. He just made it through the entire season.
The only full season he played was this year, so you only get partial credit. His career year here was a 76 game season which is comparable to his best year before that which was 77 games. He has scored at a .95 ppg pace since becoming a Ranger, that's a marked improvement on his .87 ppg pace in Minnesota.

Obviously it's not that simple but it's not like he only played one season here he's now played 220 games for us so that is a fair sample size. Is it because we are better than Minnesota? Tough to say could just be because he is healthier, but it isn't like he hasn't had his issues here with injuries.

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These "pro nash fans" are just as you say it...fans...they do not understand the art of crafting a team...and thinking long term instead of short term...I smell not just nuggets off this guy, but the stench of Gomez, Drury, Holik, Lindros etc...this would be an old school sather type deal...i really hope sather dosen't crack under pressure and do something as stupid as get rid of our amazingly youthful longterm youth...we have the perfect team, that just need certain pieces added to be a championship team, but not at the cost of young talent like DZ, Kreider, Mcdonagh etc...Dubbie as much as i love the guy is a piece that can be forfited...We need to add a little scoring depth and maybe a quaterback Defenceman for the power play...how i would love to get suter, and perry...( maybe jags short term for some extra depth while our youth develops)
Please... Don't make blanket statements you're just going to make yourself look bad. I have a hard time believing Nash would be anything like Gomez, Drury, Holik or Lindros. He's more talented than the first 3 and Lindros was a shell of his former self when he played here. How many times does Sather have to say he isn't trading Kreider, Stepan, and McDonagh before people believe him?

Many of us would be OK with Nash if the deal is right and that doesn't mean "gutting" the team, that is asinine and anyone who thinks that any of us favor that kind of deal is completely misguided.

You think Nash is an old school Rangers move? How about an over the hill and slow Jagr? If anything that is exactly the type of move we would have made back in the dark ages, don't get me wrong I love Jagr but the guy is on the decline.


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07-02-2012, 01:11 AM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
The only full season he played was this year, so you only get partial credit. His career year here was a 76 game season which is comparable to his best year before that which was 77 games. He has scored at a .95 ppg pace since becoming a Ranger, that's a marked improvement on his .87 ppg pace in Minnesota.

Obviously it's not that simple but it's not like he only played one season here he's now played 220 games for us so that is a fair sample size. Is it because we are better than Minnesota? Tough to say could just be because he is healthier, but it isn't like he hasn't had his issues here with injuries.
I think that gabby also is playing better under torts, more of a 2 way game...even the great defensive coach Jaques Lamaire couldn't get gabby to back check...he is avery streaky player which sucks, as much as i love the guy, he only has hot streaks or cold streaks, its very rare that he gets a clutch goal on a cold streak...not to take away from his triple overtime winner against washington...praise the lord for that one

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07-02-2012, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nyrmike88 View Post
I think that gabby also is playing better under torts, more of a 2 way game...even the great defensive coach Jaques Lamaire couldn't get gabby to back check...he is avery streaky player which sucks, as much as i love the guy, he only has hot streaks or cold streaks, its very rare that he gets a clutch goal on a cold streak...not to take away from his triple overtime winner against washington...praise the lord for that one
We've gotten more out of him than Minnesota could and a big part of that is Torts. Did you know Gaborik wanted days off when he came here? He didn't think he needed to attend all the practices, he was a bit entitled himself. That's why I don't fear Nash coming in and having a "country club" mentality. That wouldn't fly with the guys on the team and it sure as hell wouldn't fly with Torts.

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