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Rick Nash - The Frenzy...continues

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Old
07-02-2012, 07:38 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Sauer is done, Erixon won't be in the top 4 to start the year, neither will Stralman.
Well then sign a UFA for 2nd pairing and use Erixon-Stralman on the 3rd pairing. I have a feeling before the season is over Erixon would be on the 2nd pairing if this deal went down. He has great potential.


And another good thing with the trade is that McDonagh would get some PP time which he deserves.

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07-02-2012, 07:43 AM
  #52
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Sign who? There is no one to sign.

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07-02-2012, 07:51 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
So for anyone who just joined or is just plain lazy we (CBJ and Ranger fans) have FINALLY come to an agreement.


Dubinsky + Hagelin + Del Zotto + 1st for Nash + 2nd.




Where's GagneFan and IheartZherdev at? I wanna see what they think.
Remove Hagelin and the clb 2nd

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07-02-2012, 08:03 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jrtu View Post
This does seem like a fair deal.
However, I doubt Howson is willing to give up Nash for this package. Seems like he'd want much much more, according to the rumors and previous asking price.
Good.

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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Sather and Howson gotta meet halfway or Nash will probably be a CBJ when the season start. Doubt CBJ or Nash want that.
The deal you agreed to is more than halfway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Just an outsider who has pretty much stayed out of the whole Nash thing but, this question is for CBJ fans. How confident are you guys in Howson's abilities? And one more thinkg, do you guys still chuckle when they call you BJ fans?
We never thought it was funny. (Well, OK, probably the 13-year-olds did.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayQueensNY88 View Post
terrible deal..who r u to talk for all nyr fans...i never agreed to this..do u see what u are giving up..look at nashs cap hit n stats.huge over payment..i do thomas,dubinky and hagelin.the most!! Or hagelin,1st rnd in13,erixon/ thomas.

Nash isnt a leader like that and having him is not bringing the cup to ny..and u wanna give up hagelin,dubi ,mdz and a 1st..what are u smokin.man!!!! =\
Yikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotato Chips View Post
If you think that deal is an overpayment for the Rangers, add in Brassard.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Getting Nash while keeping Kreider and Stepan would be a very, very nice win for the Raggies IMO.
Exactly, which is why it's a bad deal for CBJ.

The deal RC24 referenced on the first page would have to include Miller and remove the CBJ 2nd to even have a chance. Even then, I don't know.

Apologies for reiterating from the last thread, but... I think Stepan + Dubinsky + either (Hagelin) or (Miller + 1st) is the floor of what Howson should be willing to do. No Kreider, no top-4 D. Sounds like halfway to me.

Resnick is, IMO, the wild-card in this game of chicken between Sather and Howson. He's been meeting/in contact with Howson, and hasn't opened his mouth. If he changes his mind, it's probably bad for CBJ.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:06 AM
  #55
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Agreed. Replace Del Zotto with McIlrath and/or Erixon
Hagelin would have to be the one to come out.

I think there is (or at least should be) a pretty strong consensus that the package will include:

Dubinsky
One of MDZ or Kreider

Beyond that, things fall apart--

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07-02-2012, 08:07 AM
  #56
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For the life of me I dont understand why Toronto doesnt do this deal. Sell the farm if you have to but Nash is Nash. Ottawa isnt on the list but I'd have done the rumoured deal if we were...

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07-02-2012, 08:10 AM
  #57
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For the life of me I dont understand why Toronto doesnt do this deal. Sell the farm if you have to but Nash is Nash. Ottawa isnt on the list but I'd have done the rumoured deal if we were...
Because, short of Gardiner, they simply don't have the centerpiece to pull the trigger--a young (under-23), established top-6 or top-4 NHL player with upside.

They weren't willing to include Gardiner, right? Talks pretty much stopped there.

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07-02-2012, 08:11 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
So for anyone who just joined or is just plain lazy we (CBJ and Ranger fans) have FINALLY come to an agreement.


Dubinsky + Hagelin + Del Zotto + 1st for Nash + 2nd.




Where's GagneFan and IheartZherdev at? I wanna see what they think.
I don't see how that is a much better deal for New York than Dubinsky,Kreider,1st. Hagelin was a good part of their team last year. Prospects may or may not be able to replicate that.

Hagelin was key last year, I especially remember how New York was on the ropes last year against Ottawa in playoffs until he came back from suspension and they got that injection of skill back.

Last thing Columbus needs is another offensive d-man, but for value purposes, sure, this is a pretty good proposal. Probably a bit of an overpayment on NYR part, but not that much.

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07-02-2012, 08:24 AM
  #59
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I wonder if/when Howsen will lower his asking price.
Thats a very astute question, and what people should worry/speculate about rather than trying to put up a finger in the air to pinpoint some kind of value for Rich Nash.

Because in the real world, CBJ has three options and three options only;

1. Take a offer that meet their demands,

or

2. Take the best offer, in their opinion, for Rich Nash,

or

3. Convince him to stay.

Because "option 4", force him to stay for x amount of years against his will, is not an option. To put it like this, it is not an option to stand their in like for example August 2014, for Howson and say that things haven't move forward. I think we all can agree on that.

BUT, in this context, a very relevant question is how much time Howson has to solicit offers for Nash. In reality, option 2 should be:

2. At some point in time, take the best offer, in their opinion, for Rich Nash,

I am a Ranger fan and I do have to admit that the media, and fans, view of this time frame really is not always in touch of reality. Nash asked for a trade, what, four month ago. As we know now -- no harm has been done just because Howson didn't get something done at the deadline. The same, if not better, offers are still on the table. The same applies for the draft. And July 2nd.

The next "milestone" is what, a week or two after Parise has signed a contract? Is Howson forced to do something by that time?

Or is waiting 'till August no problem? And BTW, why only wait to August, why not wait until the new CBA is in place if nothing is done after Parise signed? That could change the conditions in both ways. Teams could be less scared. Or they could have very little cap room. For all we know, Bettman could biatch slap the PA and get a 20% roll back, and all of a sudden Nash is making like 6m per and not 7.8m...

And if it goes to camp, is he forced to do something before camp starts? Why? Then? Will Nash show up in camp? That's of course a important factor. If he shows up and play, maybe Howson even could wait to the 2013 deadline?

Right now, it seems like the odds of Howson getting an offer that will meet his demands are pretty low. Philly could be pressured to do something, offer Coutier and other assets maybe. Boston might be pressured if Pitt and Philly improve. They have great assets. Who knows. But I don't think its probable. Players always rise and fall when the season start, which can impact offers that already is on the table.

If that's the case, the only legit question is when Howson will be forced to take the highest offer and what that offer will be.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:32 AM
  #60
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If a deal for Nash is going to get done, it's going to include at least 1 piece that the opposing team's fanbase is absolutely going to hate giving up. Likely their best or second best prospect (depending on if it's a forward or D).

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07-02-2012, 08:34 AM
  #61
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Leafs not interested in a 7.8mil cap hit especially when they are already getting good play from top 4 wingers. Sure Nash is an upgrade but not whn u factor in his salary and what the cost would be. His contract has UFA inflation already....

Leafs need a !a Centre, another big reliable D and a goalie who can stop the puck.

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07-02-2012, 08:37 AM
  #62
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Nash is a good player, on Columbus he's a franchise player, on competitive teams he's probably a top 2-3 player.

Not worth the price Howson is asking for.

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07-02-2012, 08:39 AM
  #63
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I think Blue Jackets fans would rather see Nash get traded, then having him want to stay.

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07-02-2012, 08:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
IMO CBJ are delaying the trade trying to improve the team enough to convince him to stay.
That ship has sailed! Nash will get moved. It's just a matter of time. Someone will provide a good package.

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07-02-2012, 08:44 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Apologies for reiterating from the last thread, but... I think Stepan + Dubinsky + either (Hagelin) or (Miller + 1st) is the floor of what Howson should be willing to do. No Kreider, no top-4 D. Sounds like halfway to me.

Resnick is, IMO, the wild-card in this game of chicken between Sather and Howson. He's been meeting/in contact with Howson, and hasn't opened his mouth. If he changes his mind, it's probably bad for CBJ.
The thing is, Derek Stepan's value is not that high right now, and NYR is thin at center. Dealing him is just not good asset management. You open up a hole that would be very hard to fill, and you don't get much for doing so. Giving up Hagelin also pretty much sucks for NYR. They need his speed.

The position NYR has strength is undoubtedly left D. McD, Staal and MDZ in the NHL, Erixon and Skjei on the farm. Long term, something gotta give at LD. More likely than not, MDZ will be moved with hopes to replace his offense with a RD. At the same time, short term, if Staal gets another concussion we get pretty weak there instantly because we don't know for sure if Erixon is ready and Skeji is atleast a couple of years away.

Michael Del Zotto was 18th overall in scoring among D's last season and 12th overall in +/-. He is 22 y/o.

But LD is a position CBJ is (the) strong(-est?) in, with Jack Johnson and Tyutin. CBJ natrually want forwards.

However, MDZ would undoubtedly have a ton of value for many teams in this league. And some of those teams would of course part with a forward, or forwards, to get him.

Just for example, would NYR get Pääjärvi and Gagner from EDM for MDZ? All I can say is that I would do that trade if I was EDM. Would Dubinsky, Pääjärvi, Gagner and a 1st be enough to get Nash at some point in time? I mean, PHX got Rundblad for Turris. I am sure they would have done Turris and Boedker for MDZ. I have a hard time seeing Howson getting more than say a offer equalling Turris, Boedker, Dubinsky and a 1st for Nash.

If Slats put MDZ in play, they should be able to get something done. From NYR's point of view, Dubinsky, MDZ and a 1st. Through a three-way deal.

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07-02-2012, 08:47 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
Howson needs to lower the price or up the ante. Nash has a terribly big contract that is hard to move, so Howson has to accept at least some salary coming the other way and at least to package Nash with a pick. However, he is a terrible GM who shouldn't be expected to make such a reasonable decision.
to the bolded....No, actually, he doesn't. CBJ is more than willing to accept salary coming back. That is why Dubinsky appears to be in every deal with the Rags.

CBJ can't afford to settle on 3rd line players or 2nd rate futures. It's what seems to be commonly offered by fans on HF. A return similar to Richards should be realistic. Big time prospect, up and coming NHLer and a pick.

Fans on these boards aren't going to agree because we all rate our players higher than other teams. Realistically, the CBJ is trading a top line winger. They need back at least one player that has the potential to become a top line player. That should be part of the deal.

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07-02-2012, 08:58 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Just an outsider who has pretty much stayed out of the whole Nash thing but, this question is for CBJ fans. How confident are you guys in Howson's abilities? And one more thinkg, do you guys still chuckle when they call you BJ fans?
If there is a complaint, for me, about Howson it's his patience. When I look at most of the trades he has made he has done quite well. The original Carter trade looks like it will turn out quite well for Philly but the return of JJ and 2013 1st looks very good too from a CBJ perspective (I only bring this up because it's the lightening rod for Howson). Zherdev for Tyutin, Torres for Brule, 1st and 4th(?) for Foote - subsequently turned into Umberger, Foligno for Methot (still need to see how this works out but on surface looks solid), Russell for Nikitin, Letestu for a 4th (OK, now we're getting down there....)

Anyway, his track record really isn't horrible. Free agent signings...probably a weekness but when trying to get high end players to Columbus we have to over pay. it's not a winning team at this point. His re-signing spree a few years ago (after playoffs) are probably what has bothered me the most. Too much $$ and too long in a few cases.

I'm not saying he hasn't made poor decisions. He has for sure. I appreciate his patience, especially on a deal of this magnitude, but i'm concerned he'll be too patient and miss the boat on this deal. It's absolutely critical for Columbus to have a good return on this.

I'm OK with what he's doing, I would just like more insight into "the plan". We seem to be stuck in "reshape" mode rather than blow it up. minor changes rather than something aggressive....

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07-02-2012, 09:03 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
If a deal for Nash is going to get done, it's going to include at least 1 piece that the opposing team's fanbase is absolutely going to hate giving up. Likely their best or second best prospect (depending on if it's a forward or D).
I think we all get that.

I just think people really believe that Rangers fans WANT to move Dubinsky.

I would prefer to keep him AND add Nash.

Not a big fan of moving Dubinsky, at all.

But I understand the economics of it all and concede that he HAS to be part of the transaction.

I think what would really bother me is moving guys like Hagelin and Miller.

And I am of the opinion that while I like Nash, think he can help the Rangers, may in fact be worth giving up Hags or JT for, would 100% prefer to pass on any deal that includes one or both of those young guys.

I would go so far as to offer up Dubi, AA and MDZ AND a 1st in order to retain Hagelin and Miller.

Not a big fan of deals like this, but I think that the system can sustain the hit to the loss of bodies. Additionally when you take on that size of a contract, it's an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY to retain young inexpensive players that have talent and can help the trade do what it was intended to do.

Adding that salary and losing those youngsters means we are going to have to cut additional players 1-2 years from now.

The trade is no longer X+++ for Nash. It them becomes X+++ (plus any later players losses due to salary constraints) for Nash and while I believe he can help, he's NOT WORTH THE RESIDUAL LOSSES 2 years from now.

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07-02-2012, 09:06 AM
  #69
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Do I have this right?

1) Rangers don't want to trade Stepan or Kreider because their high upside
2) Rangers don't want to trade MDZ, McDonagh, Staal or Girardi because it leaves them thin on the blue line
3) Rangers don't want to trade Hagelin because...well they just don't
4) Rangers DO want to trade Dubinsky to offset salary

Honestly, I get all this but when it comes to a Nash trade something of value HAS to come back to Columbus. Columbus needs forwards and if there is an area where the Rags appear to be able to sacrifice a little of the future it would be with a young forward. Columbus doesn't NEED MDZ - gladly accept him as part of a deal but he's not a need.

I don't think a deal happens without Stepan or Kreider. For many that's a non-starter. It's why these threads have become such a challenge to partake in. I've said my piece and will wait for "Rick Nash - infinity and beyond"....next thread.

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07-02-2012, 09:10 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Do I have this right?

1) Rangers don't want to trade Stepan or Kreider because their high upside
2) Rangers don't want to trade MDZ, McDonagh, Staal or Girardi because it leaves them thin on the blue line
3) Rangers don't want to trade Hagelin because...well they just don't
4) Rangers DO want to trade Dubinsky to offset salary
They want to trade for Nash and keep most if not their entire current Eastern Conference championship team intact, I do believe. Also, Kreider is off limits(apparently).

edit : all joking aside, I think it boils down to without alot of Ranger fans many of them value their players alot differently. Some value Del Zotto + Hagelin more than Kreider, some Anisimov more than J.T. Miller.

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07-02-2012, 09:14 AM
  #71
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If Parise/Suter falls through: Couturier, Simmonds, 1st (2013) for Nash

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07-02-2012, 09:19 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
The thing is, Derek Stepan's value is not that high right now, and NYR is thin at center. Dealing him is just not good asset management. You open up a hole that would be very hard to fill, and you don't get much for doing so. Giving up Hagelin also pretty much sucks for NYR. They need his speed.

The position NYR has strength is undoubtedly left D. McD, Staal and MDZ in the NHL, Erixon and Skjei on the farm. Long term, something gotta give at LD. More likely than not, MDZ will be moved with hopes to replace his offense with a RD. At the same time, short term, if Staal gets another concussion we get pretty weak there instantly because we don't know for sure if Erixon is ready and Skeji is atleast a couple of years away.

Michael Del Zotto was 18th overall in scoring among D's last season and 12th overall in +/-. He is 22 y/o.

But LD is a position CBJ is (the) strong(-est?) in, with Jack Johnson and Tyutin. CBJ natrually want forwards.

However, MDZ would undoubtedly have a ton of value for many teams in this league. And some of those teams would of course part with a forward, or forwards, to get him.

Just for example, would NYR get Pääjärvi and Gagner from EDM for MDZ? All I can say is that I would do that trade if I was EDM. Would Dubinsky, Pääjärvi, Gagner and a 1st be enough to get Nash at some point in time? I mean, PHX got Rundblad for Turris. I am sure they would have done Turris and Boedker for MDZ. I have a hard time seeing Howson getting more than say a offer equalling Turris, Boedker, Dubinsky and a 1st for Nash.

If Slats put MDZ in play, they should be able to get something done. From NYR's point of view, Dubinsky, MDZ and a 1st. Through a three-way deal.
Yeah, I got no beef with MDZ. He's a really good young talent and for sure has value. Not sure he's a fit among the CBJ blueliners, as you have allowed. Not thrilled with the notion of acquiring him to move him.

Essentially, this offer suggests that NYR shouldn't make a deal that requires them to make another deal (signing/trading to fill Stepan's slot) while CBJ should make a trade that requires them to make another deal (moving MDZ for the forward NYR wouldn't give up).

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07-02-2012, 09:21 AM
  #73
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McSauer said:


MDZ is the PMD we've been coveting since the loss of leech and we finally get him and now we want to move him? Asinine.

I've said this myself at least one time in between the trade deadline and today. My opinion remains unchanged.

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07-02-2012, 09:22 AM
  #74
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There are still middle and bottom pairing UFA out there.

Salvador, Jurcina, Colaicovo, Martinek, Eaton, Kubina, Spacek....Some have injury issues or are coming off injury but all would fill a bottom-6 void.

The Devils went to the CF with a defense of Volchenkov, Greene, Fayne, Salvador, Zidlicki and Peter Harrold.

I think the Rangers could stomach losing a d-man.

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07-02-2012, 09:29 AM
  #75
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The Philadelphia Flyers are most definitely on Rick Nash's "approved" list. Don't pretend to know exact list, but Flyers are indeed on it.

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