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Fowler and Sbisa - Ready to step up?

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07-01-2012, 09:31 PM
  #1
OCSportsfan
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Fowler and Sbisa - Ready to step up?

Based on these signings, these two need to make a step forward and be the future top two defensemen for this club. We have 4 defenseman over 30 years old and none are top two quality now in their careers. I do like that they are all top 4 (maybe 5). I think we will have a solid, physical D this year.

I think he made these signings assuming that Teemu is returning and wanted to shore up the defense and make one more run for him. Now we just need a face off specialist for the 4th line, or a great 2nd line center.

Smith Pelly - Getz - Perry
Cogliano - Koivu - Selanne
Ryan - Bonino - Palmieri
Belesky - FA - Staubitz

Sbisa - Allen
Fowler - Beauch
Lydman - Souray

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07-01-2012, 09:32 PM
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They're gonna have to.

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07-01-2012, 09:33 PM
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Sbisa and Allen won't be getting first pairing minutes. Fowler and whoever he plays with (in all likelihood it will be Beauchemin) will be.

I think Fowler will take a pretty good step forward this season.

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07-01-2012, 09:47 PM
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Seems like a more balanced approach. Maybe all three pairings get 20 min?

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07-01-2012, 10:05 PM
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I really don't see how Fowler ISN'T going to take a step forward next year. As for Sbisa, I think last year he really came into his own and showed us what he'll bring to the table for the rest of his career, what we'll see this year will probably be a more refined version of the same product.

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07-01-2012, 10:17 PM
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Jerky Leclerc
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The idea is supporting Fowler and Sbisa to help them grow. If they struggle, they know that the vets can step in and cover. This really takes a lot of pressure off the kids to play big minutes for the team until they are ready.

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07-01-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerky Leclerc View Post
The idea is supporting Fowler and Sbisa to help them grow. If they struggle, they know that the vets can step in and cover. This really takes a lot of pressure off the kids to play big minutes for the team until they are ready.
I came in here to say the exact same thing. Well said.

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07-02-2012, 02:20 AM
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KEEROLE Vatanen
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I'm worried we're going to ruin Fowlers development.......he shouldn't have ever been asked to play a first pairing role last season. If he gets off to a slow start, say first 40 games...then Murray should be fired, no questions asked because he put this kid in a very unfair position

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07-02-2012, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I'm worried we're going to ruin Fowlers development.......he shouldn't have ever been asked to play a first pairing role last season. If he gets off to a slow start, say first 40 games...then Murray should be fired, no questions asked because he put this kid in a very unfair position
Lol seriously? So what if Fowler is in Norris conversation at the 40 game mark do we get to give Murray an extension? Because Murray gave him the opportunity to gain valuable experience?

Now back to reality... Murray isn't the coach. Do people not understand the basics? Lol did Murray threaten Carlyle to play Fowler as our #1?

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07-02-2012, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Lol seriously? So what if Fowler is in Norris conversation at the 40 game mark do we get to give Murray an extension? Because Murray gave him the opportunity to gain valuable experience?

Now back to reality... Murray isn't the coach. Do people not understand the basics? Lol did Murray threaten Carlyle to play Fowler as our #1?
On this board, you'll see the phrase "Murray should be fired if" preceding just about anything. If we don't make the playoffs, if Schultz doesn't sign, if he doesn't pick Forsberg, if Getzlaf gets any balder, etc. I think someone actually suggested actually firing him on July 1 if he doesn't make a splash. But, hey, maybe Samueli read that one.

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07-02-2012, 04:03 AM
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I like our defence for this year, a solid group of d-men really, best you can hope for when you can't acquire a #1 d-man, a lot more nastier + a lot more shot blocking.

Interested to see what happens with the forwards now, as we need some reinforcement there.

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07-02-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Lol seriously? So what if Fowler is in Norris conversation at the 40 game mark do we get to give Murray an extension? Because Murray gave him the opportunity to gain valuable experience?

Now back to reality... Murray isn't the coach. Do people not understand the basics? Lol did Murray threaten Carlyle to play Fowler as our #1?
No, but Murray did put Carlyle in a position where he felt he needed to overuse Fowler.

I understand what you're saying, and I even agree in part. It's just not that simple. I'm not saying Fowler didn't play his own part in earning his ice time, because he did. I'm also not saying the coaches are completely innocent in this.

The bigger part of this, in my opinion, is that he(Fowler) shouldn't have been needed to do so much so soon. I don't put that on the coach, either of them, because their job is to win games first and foremost. Murray gave Carlyle the players to work with, and it was his job to do the best he could with what he had. It was no different with Boudreau. When push comes to shove, they overused Fowler because they needed to. With the players they had available, what else were they going to do?

Murray plays a bigger role in what the coaches do, or rather can do, than you're allowing. Look at the blue line Anaheim had the last two seasons. Can you put together a blue line that gets better results with the players that were available to Carlyle? You don't think it's significant that Boudreau comes in, and after making a number of adjustments, the one thing he didn't change was his top pairing? Murray might as well have made a threat, because he expected results, and there were no better options.

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07-02-2012, 08:15 AM
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I expect Sbisa to be as good as he was last year but more consistent, Fowler should take a step forward this season.

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07-02-2012, 09:07 AM
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Sbisa and Allen will make a solid shutdown pairing.

Hopefully Beauch will recover completely from his surgery and him and Fowler together improve.

Lydman and Souray make one of the better 3rd pairings in the league imo.

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07-02-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I'm worried we're going to ruin Fowlers development.......he shouldn't have ever been asked to play a first pairing role last season. If he gets off to a slow start, say first 40 games...then Murray should be fired, no questions asked because he put this kid in a very unfair position
Really? Murrays fault because Sutton broke his hand in the first game so our 18 year old draft choice was put into a top 4 (not top pairing) role. Our top pairing was Viz ad Lydman, not Fowler. Last year our top pairing would have been the same, but Lydman and Viz were both injured so they were forced to move his minutes up. Is that Murrays fault. This year our top pairing is going to be Sbisa and Allen against the Thorton, Sedin, Kopitat, Toews lines and it will be fowler/Beach against the speed or smaller lines. They will even the minutes out more.

Fowler should see an improvement this year, he is only 20 correct.

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07-02-2012, 10:27 AM
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Really? Murrays fault because Sutton broke his hand in the first game so our 18 year old draft choice was put into a top 4 (not top pairing) role. Our top pairing was Viz ad Lydman, not Fowler. Last year our top pairing would have been the same, but Lydman and Viz were both injured so they were forced to move his minutes up. Is that Murrays fault. This year our top pairing is going to be Sbisa and Allen against the Thorton, Sedin, Kopitat, Toews lines and it will be fowler/Beach against the speed or smaller lines. They will even the minutes out more.
Is it just me, or does that look like a disaster for the Ducks?

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07-02-2012, 10:34 AM
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I don't think Allen was brought in to play top pairing. Boudreau has a say in this, and considering how long Allen spent playing in the same division as him, he probably has a good idea of how best to put him to use. Allen is a talented second pairing defenseman.

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07-02-2012, 10:38 AM
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I think a lot of this year's success will be dependent upon just how much Fowler and Sbisa improve. While I do think they they will both step up, it is by no means a guarantee.

And I'm way more worried about Beauch not being ready for most of the first half of the season. Isn't his surgery pretty much the same one Belesky and Lydman had last off season? Both of them were downright awful the first half of the year before turning things around the second half. I believe that was due to health reasons more than anything else.

I'm hoping Allen is a solid addition, but even so, if Fowler and Sbisa don't step up and Beauch is not healthy for half the season...it may be another disappointing season.

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07-02-2012, 10:41 AM
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I think on Beauch they said his injury isn't as severe as Lydman/Beleskey's

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07-02-2012, 11:04 AM
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Is it just me, or does that look like a disaster for the Ducks?
It's a disaster. Sbisa has been pretty solid in the D zone for Anaheim, but not shutdown good. Allen is more that type, but in the way O'Donnell or Beauchemin would have been under Niedermayer and Prongs. Expecting him to lead a shutdown D pairing is a big difference from asking him to come in and provide a little D stability, and physical play. I also think it takes away from the strength that this blue line could have, which is depth. A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pairing that don't wow you, but can pretty consistent minutes and with the 1st pairing probably not being a whole lot better than the 3rd.

Not to mention a shutdown D pairing really requires a forward line that can fill the same role. Anaheim doesn't have the forwards for it. I expect Boudreau to go for balance throughout. The Ducks aren't going to win just based on their offense, or just based on their defense. If D has a bad night, Hiller struggles, or the O runs dry, those are games I think the Ducks will be losing. I actually think the Ducks could be pretty decent, but it's going to come from a balanced attack and no major weakness, but probably no great strength either(barring individual performances beyond expectations).

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07-02-2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by OCSportsfan View Post
Really? Murrays fault because Sutton broke his hand in the first game so our 18 year old draft choice was put into a top 4 (not top pairing) role. Our top pairing was Viz ad Lydman, not Fowler. Last year our top pairing would have been the same, but Lydman and Viz were both injured so they were forced to move his minutes up. Is that Murrays fault. This year our top pairing is going to be Sbisa and Allen against the Thorton, Sedin, Kopitat, Toews lines and it will be fowler/Beach against the speed or smaller lines. They will even the minutes out more.

Fowler should see an improvement this year, he is only 20 correct.
BTW - Fowler wasn't put into the top 4 because Sutton broke his hand. He was put into the top 4 because Sutton wasn't a top 4 defenseman, and Sbisa had been pencilled in to the line-up, but started the season in the AHL because he wasn't ready for responsibility that was expected of him. Murray made it clear, before training camp, that he was going to let Fowler show his stuff, but that the blue line he was putting together for the season did not include Fowler.

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07-02-2012, 02:19 PM
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BTW - Fowler wasn't put into the top 4 because Sutton broke his hand. He was put into the top 4 because Sutton wasn't a top 4 defenseman, and Sbisa had been pencilled in to the line-up, but started the season in the AHL because he wasn't ready for responsibility that was expected of him. Murray made it clear, before training camp, that he was going to let Fowler show his stuff, but that the blue line he was putting together for the season did not include Fowler.

I think he planned on Fowler making the team honestly, but said what he said to protect Fowler. Makes the kid look great if he makes the team, but protects him from looking bad if he doesnt.

I hope he didnt actually plan on a defense of Visnovsky, Lydman, Sutton, Mara, Mikkelson, Sbisa and Lilja.

Because that defense lands us a lottery pick.

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07-02-2012, 02:35 PM
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I think he planned on Fowler making the team honestly, but said what he said to protect Fowler. Makes the kid look great if he makes the team, but protects him from looking bad if he doesnt.

I hope he didnt actually plan on a defense of Visnovsky, Lydman, Sutton, Mara, Mikkelson, Sbisa and Lilja.

Because that defense lands us a lottery pick.
It doesn't sound as bad if you expect top 4 caliber play from the likes of Sbisa, Sutton, and Mara. In actual practice, it's another matter. I'd agree with you, but Murray -has- spoken of his expectations regarding certain players. Ones that were not entirely realistic with what the players had shown. During that off-season, for example, he said he expected Sbisa to slot into the top 4 for the upcoming season.

You could be right about this, i just don't see that devious side to Murray.

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07-02-2012, 02:51 PM
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Is it just me, or does that look like a disaster for the Ducks?
I'm with you.

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07-02-2012, 05:32 PM
  #25
KEEROLE Vatanen
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No, but Murray did put Carlyle in a position where he felt he needed to overuse Fowler.

I understand what you're saying, and I even agree in part. It's just not that simple. I'm not saying Fowler didn't play his own part in earning his ice time, because he did. I'm also not saying the coaches are completely innocent in this.

The bigger part of this, in my opinion, is that he(Fowler) shouldn't have been needed to do so much so soon. I don't put that on the coach, either of them, because their job is to win games first and foremost. Murray gave Carlyle the players to work with, and it was his job to do the best he could with what he had. It was no different with Boudreau. When push comes to shove, they overused Fowler because they needed to. With the players they had available, what else were they going to do?

Murray plays a bigger role in what the coaches do, or rather can do, than you're allowing. Look at the blue line Anaheim had the last two seasons. Can you put together a blue line that gets better results with the players that were available to Carlyle? You don't think it's significant that Boudreau comes in, and after making a number of adjustments, the one thing he didn't change was his top pairing? Murray might as well have made a threat, because he expected results, and there were no better options.
Well said I agree completely

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