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Old
07-02-2012, 03:51 PM
  #276
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I'd like to, but I don't want to get my hopes up that we'll do something major.
Jeff Woy-can-i-have-my-old-locker-back-a

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07-02-2012, 03:55 PM
  #277
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Overpayment slightly, but that's free agency. Hudler's a very consistent, 45-55 point player. I'd be okay with it if I was a Flames fan.
They still dont have a center and are just about at the cap, wonder if this means JBo is on his way out.

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07-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #278
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so signing Woywitka sorta has me just thinking about maybe packaging Ian Cole and a forward (and picks/prospects of course) for the LD we all seek. i looked at the remaining UFA forwards, just wondering who we could look at to replace a forward if we trade one, and the list is pretty depressing.

so what about giving someone like Peter Mueller or Wojtek Wolski a chance? both are still young enough that a return to form isn't out of the question.

i'm not saying either of those guys should come here and get top minutes, just wonder if we might take a chance on one to see if they might just turn it around. yes, i'm reaching here, i know.

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07-02-2012, 04:08 PM
  #279
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I'd be okay with signing someone like Shane Doan to a 2 or 3 year deal, and then moving either Stewart or Perron to try to get that top 4 Dman. The thinking being that by the time Doan leaves, we should have another prospect that will be able to play in the NHL. Whether that's Ty Rattie, Phil Mcrae, Evgeny Grachev, Jaden Schwartz or a pick in the next draft, I don't know. However, if we could sign Doan to a reasonable contract, we could use another winger to bring in a Dman.

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07-02-2012, 04:15 PM
  #280
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Or how about just playing Ian Cole. There's a myth that's prevalent that Cole didn't play last year much because he couldn't "beat out" guys like Colaiacovo. No. Cole had a two-way contract and Colaiacovo didn't. They had seven one-way defense contracts and so it meant Cole played in Peoria unless there was an injury issue or it came time to put him on the unlimited playoff roster as insurance. Cole simply never got top six regular minutes because that would have committed them to benching/waiving a one-way contract player, and this was not a financial option. Armstrong made a point of talking about Cole playing regular minutes as a top six defenseman from the start of the season. That's a pretty clear message from the GM about how they value this guy and what they think he's capable of doing.

I think there's a very decent possibility, since Cole can play the right, that they start the year with pairings of:

Pietrangelo-Polak
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Cole
Woywitka/Chorney/Fairchild (whoever wins the 7th spot in camp)

And you know what? This will be ok. They will win lots and lots and lots and lots of games. At some point when a trade is ripe it may be made. Or Cole could surprise. There is really nothing to panic about here. They tried to get Garrison but they didn't get him and now the options boil down to getting the wrong guy in free agency or going with the above lineup which would work fine.

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07-02-2012, 04:37 PM
  #281
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I think the moves we've seen (and haven't seen) along with Armstrong's quotes indicate that the team is pretty much set on D until a future time when they swing a trade. Its looking doubtful that will happen now, more likely into the season before we see it.

Armstrong has shown incredible patience in this particular need, and since the team can win in the regular season with what they have now, I think he'll continue to wait for the right opportunity, rather than panicking and signing/trading for the wrong guy.

There will probably be a lot of gnashing of teeth among the Blues fanbase, but its not a big surprise. It would sure be nice of Stewart looks more productive in the first part of the season, since a forward will likely be a necessary piece in trade.

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07-02-2012, 04:49 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I think the moves we've seen (and haven't seen) along with Armstrong's quotes indicate that the team is pretty much set on D until a future time when they swing a trade. Its looking doubtful that will happen now, more likely into the season before we see it.

Armstrong has shown incredible patience in this particular need, and since the team can win in the regular season with what they have now, I think he'll continue to wait for the right opportunity, rather than panicking and signing/trading for the wrong guy.

There will probably be a lot of gnashing of teeth among the Blues fanbase, but its not a big surprise. It would sure be nice of Stewart looks more productive in the first part of the season, since a forward will likely be a necessary piece in trade.
If Stewart comes alive, this team starts to look a lot more like a cup favorite. I doubt that he is traded if his production goes back up. If we're looking good mid-season, I'd expect to see futures traded, not a forward.

Near the trade deadline, good players nearing UFA are dirt cheap. This team already looks like a playoff team (knock on wood) next season but we could stand to add a few more pieces to be cup favorites. If you add near the deadline, you give up less and you're only on the hook for a portion of their yearly salary. Though it's a risky move to be patient like that, I could see how it would be attractive to a budget team such as ourselves.

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07-02-2012, 04:49 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Or how about just playing Ian Cole. There's a myth that's prevalent that Cole didn't play last year much because he couldn't "beat out" guys like Colaiacovo. No. Cole had a two-way contract and Colaiacovo didn't. They had seven one-way defense contracts and so it meant Cole played in Peoria unless there was an injury issue or it came time to put him on the unlimited playoff roster as insurance. Cole simply never got top six regular minutes because that would have committed them to benching/waiving a one-way contract player, and this was not a financial option. Armstrong made a point of talking about Cole playing regular minutes as a top six defenseman from the start of the season. That's a pretty clear message from the GM about how they value this guy and what they think he's capable of doing.

I think there's a very decent possibility, since Cole can play the right, that they start the year with pairings of:

Pietrangelo-Polak
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Cole
Woywitka/Chorney/Fairchild (whoever wins the 7th spot in camp)

And you know what? This will be ok. They will win lots and lots and lots and lots of games. At some point when a trade is ripe it may be made. Or Cole could surprise. There is really nothing to panic about here. They tried to get Garrison but they didn't get him and now the options boil down to getting the wrong guy in free agency or going with the above lineup which would work fine.
I think that if The Blues fail to sign Carle (which is likely), that is just, exactly what we will see. Then, Armstrong will be looking to make a trade before the deadline, to bolster the playoff roster. By then, Cole may well look nice and solid, but, I think they'd still want another defenceman, who could replace an injured player on the first or second shift, rather than playing Woywitka, and moving up Russell, Jackman or Cole.

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07-02-2012, 05:01 PM
  #284
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Not saying it will/should be the Blues, but I'm guessing that some team is going to acquire Bouwmeester for not much more than a draft pick.

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07-02-2012, 05:03 PM
  #285
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If Stewart comes alive, this team starts to look a lot more like a cup favorite. I doubt that he is traded if his production goes back up. If we're looking good mid-season, I'd expect to see futures traded, not a forward.

Near the trade deadline, good players nearing UFA are dirt cheap. This team already looks like a playoff team (knock on wood) next season but we could stand to add a few more pieces to be cup favorites. If you add near the deadline, you give up less and you're only on the hook for a portion of their yearly salary. Though it's a risky move to be patient like that, I could see how it would be attractive to a budget team such as ourselves.
I don't necessarily mean that Stewart is the one traded, just that him regaining top 6 form makes it feasible to trade someone.

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07-02-2012, 05:10 PM
  #286
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Also wanna make clear that there are two different kinds of seasons. Regular season and playoffs. The hypothetical D lineup I posted is a winning regular season team. I don't know that it's a team that can win more than a playoff round or so without a D upgrade, and I think Armstrong knows it. But just getting Carle or just getting Bouwmeester doesn't make it a playoff upgrade either, it really does have to be the right guy. And it should. It's exactly the same as saying they need a first line forward. Top three forwards and top two defensemen are elite positions in the NHL. If you want to win a Cup you need some very strong players in those roles. The Blues have some very good forwards and only one player who is truly elite in one of those five spots – Pietrangelo. They have good goaltending. The tandem should continue to push each other next year as nobody's the true #1 until someone definitively earns it. But they need a second legitimately strong defenseman and just because Carle is available doesn't mean it's him. Or just because Bouwmeester is a super-expensive, flexibility-strangling option the Flames likely want to dump doesn't mean it's him either.

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07-02-2012, 05:18 PM
  #287
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I think that if The Blues fail to sign Carle (which is likely), that is just, exactly what we will see. Then, Armstrong will be looking to make a trade before the deadline, to bolster the playoff roster. By then, Cole may well look nice and solid, but, I think they'd still want another defenceman, who could replace an injured player on the first or second shift, rather than playing Woywitka, and moving up Russell, Jackman or Cole.
Disagree, I don't think we will see that lineup at all. If the Blues don't land Carle I see them making a trade before the start of the season. JR makes it sound like they will.

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07-02-2012, 05:33 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Also wanna make clear that there are two different kinds of seasons. Regular season and playoffs. The hypothetical D lineup I posted is a winning regular season team. I don't know that it's a team that can win more than a playoff round or so without a D upgrade, and I think Armstrong knows it. But just getting Carle or just getting Bouwmeester doesn't make it a playoff upgrade either, it really does have to be the right guy. And it should. It's exactly the same as saying they need a first line forward. Top three forwards and top two defensemen are elite positions in the NHL. If you want to win a Cup you need some very strong players in those roles. The Blues have some very good forwards and only one player who is truly elite in one of those five spots – Pietrangelo. They have good goaltending. The tandem should continue to push each other next year as nobody's the true #1 until someone definitively earns it. But they need a second legitimately strong defenseman and just because Carle is available doesn't mean it's him. Or just because Bouwmeester is a super-expensive, flexibility-strangling option the Flames likely want to dump doesn't mean it's him either.
If he was available, do you consider Yandle a "Right Guy"? I'm not sure I do, even though I think he's a heck of a player. His skill set seems duplicative of Pietrangelo's, not necessarily complementary.

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07-02-2012, 05:42 PM
  #289
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If he was available, do you consider Yandle a "Right Guy"? I'm not sure I do, even though I think he's a heck of a player. His skill set seems duplicative of Pietrangelo's, not necessarily complementary.
I do. Yandle is solid defensively, elite offensively. He can take over games. He's an impact player. I watched most of Phoenix' games the second half of the season (as you guys know, I was touting their legitimacy based on those observations) and Yandle continued to be a huge part of the reason they were successful. The concerns about him not getting matchups while OEL got tougher playoff assignments, IMO, say more about OEL than they do about Yandle. OEL is a special player, like Pietrangelo. Yandle is a highly mobile dman in line to be the Coyotes next captain after Doan. He can elude that first forechecker the way Russell did so successfully against the Kings. He's bigger, has much higher end offensive instincts, and there are games he would just take over. Whenever the Blues played the Coyotes, we had problems with Yandle (we went right through Jay Bouwmeester). The teams that can beat us in the playoffs play a similar style to the way we play in the regular season.

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07-02-2012, 06:08 PM
  #290
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I do. Yandle is solid defensively, elite offensively. He can take over games. He's an impact player. I watched most of Phoenix' games the second half of the season (as you guys know, I was touting their legitimacy based on those observations) and Yandle continued to be a huge part of the reason they were successful. The concerns about him not getting matchups while OEL got tougher playoff assignments, IMO, say more about OEL than they do about Yandle. OEL is a special player, like Pietrangelo. Yandle is a highly mobile dman in line to be the Coyotes next captain after Doan. He can elude that first forechecker the way Russell did so successfully against the Kings. He's bigger, has much higher end offensive instincts, and there are games he would just take over. Whenever the Blues played the Coyotes, we had problems with Yandle (we went right through Jay Bouwmeester). The teams that can beat us in the playoffs play a similar style to the way we play in the regular season.
I guess my thinking is that Pietrangelo's ideal partner would be the flip of Yandle (elite defensively and competent offensively). That's why I was so excited about the Garrison possibility. I've read about Yandle much more than I've seen him play, granted.

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07-02-2012, 06:16 PM
  #291
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I guess my thinking is that Pietrangelo's ideal partner would be the flip of Yandle (elite defensively and competent offensively). That's why I was so excited about the Garrison possibility. I've read about Yandle much more than I've seen him play, granted.
I would have rather just signed Garrison versus trade signifcant assets for Yandle, and I definitely thought Garrison was the perfect fit. However, Yandle is an NHL impact defenseman who's only 25 and on a great contract. Like Pietrangelo this year, he finished 4th in Norris voting just a year ago. He's enough of an impact player that it simply makes the team better for having him. He will cost $$ but the Coyotes already lost a bunch of goal scoring on the wing with Whitney and might lose Doan too. And their forward cupboard is darn dry. Blues might have an easier time replacing the forwards they'd have to trade. I don't think it would involve Cole since they have tons of Cole-like depth already. Would probably be something like Stewart + Rattie + 1st or Perron + Rattie + 2d or something in that ballpark.

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07-02-2012, 06:26 PM
  #292
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Or how about just playing Ian Cole. There's a myth that's prevalent that Cole didn't play last year much because he couldn't "beat out" guys like Colaiacovo. No. Cole had a two-way contract and Colaiacovo didn't. They had seven one-way defense contracts and so it meant Cole played in Peoria unless there was an injury issue or it came time to put him on the unlimited playoff roster as insurance. Cole simply never got top six regular minutes because that would have committed them to benching/waiving a one-way contract player, and this was not a financial option. Armstrong made a point of talking about Cole playing regular minutes as a top six defenseman from the start of the season. That's a pretty clear message from the GM about how they value this guy and what they think he's capable of doing.

I think there's a very decent possibility, since Cole can play the right, that they start the year with pairings of:

Pietrangelo-Polak
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Cole
Woywitka/Chorney/Fairchild (whoever wins the 7th spot in camp)

And you know what? This will be ok. They will win lots and lots and lots and lots of games. At some point when a trade is ripe it may be made. Or Cole could surprise. There is really nothing to panic about here. They tried to get Garrison but they didn't get him and now the options boil down to getting the wrong guy in free agency or going with the above lineup which would work fine.
This - 100%.

You can make trades up until February 2013 - whenever the trade deadline is. Don't have to make a deal this week.

Doug Armstrong knows what he's doing.

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07-02-2012, 07:02 PM
  #293
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Jeff "the Dome" Woywitka is back!

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07-02-2012, 07:27 PM
  #294
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JR gives me the impression that the full court press is on Matt Carle. I think he would fit reasonably well, but if Phoenix is open to trading Yandle, I really hope we pounce on it.
Count me in amongst those who would prefer Yandle to Carle, too.

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07-02-2012, 07:29 PM
  #295
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I guess my thinking is that Pietrangelo's ideal partner would be the flip of Yandle (elite defensively and competent offensively). That's why I was so excited about the Garrison possibility. I've read about Yandle much more than I've seen him play, granted.
This is why I was pushing hard for Marc Staal at one point. However, now that all of his brothers play in Carolina, I think he's a lock to go there too once his contract is over.

I'm not so sure about trading solid NHL assets for a prospect defenseman like Gormley. I think I'd rather just keep everyone and play Cole until we get closer to the trade deadline.

I also don't think JayBo is going to get pried out of Calgary for a draft pick. He is a -really- solid defenseman, salary cap and lack of grit notwithstanding. I mean, don't you think the Red Wings will put together a somewhat attractive package for him if they lose out on Suter? They need defenseman in the worst way. The Wild need huge help on the blueline. Hell, the Predators will need help if Suter leaves. The list goes on and on. This alone will drive the price for a guy like JayBo -way- up. I wonder about Feaster sometimes, but there's no way he allows JayBo to leave without a top 6 forward coming back, preferably a center.

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07-02-2012, 07:31 PM
  #296
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Please please please please let the Wings have Bouwmeester. Please.

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07-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #297
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Please please please please let the Wings have Bouwmeester. Please.
I totally agree with that. I don't want the Blues to go after him.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, we don't need the "best" guy, we need the "right" guy. Could Yandle be the "right" guy? perhaps. I just don't want anyone to panic and spend foolishly with either money or assets until we are -sure- we have identified the "right" guy. I personally don't think the right guy even needs to be flashy. I feel like if we could find Roman Polak with a bit more offensive skill/passing ability, we'd be set.

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07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #298
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What I expect to see happen is one more forward signing like Langenbrunner. It'll probably still be Langenbrunner, since Hitchcock seems to already want him to play a specific role on the PP. If it's not him they'll sign one more guy. JR quoted Armstrong yesterday (in a piece or on twitter, can't remember) that they have 13 one-way contracts up front and then added Schwartz and Grachev, which is funny because technically Tarasenko is a two-way contract but clearly they're penciling him into one of the 14 spots. They'll want to do the same thing with depth that they're doing on D. They can also add a player on waivers during camp if they feel Schwartz isn't ready, but I think they'll probably sign one more forward and pretty much be done with free agency.

On D they have 13 guys under contract between the two squads:
1. Pietrangelo
2. Shattenkirk
3. Polak
4. Jackman
5. Russell
6. Cole
7. Woywitka
8. Chorney
9. Fairchild
10. Ford
11. Ponich
12. Cundari
13. Shields

So they'll either add an NHL D via trade prior to the season and push everyone down one rung or they'll add a Ford-esque AHLer to round out Peoria's roster and start the season with Cole having a fulltime shift.

When you look at Phoenix, by the way, they have tons of D even after losing Aucoin and Rozsival.

1. OEL
2. Yandle
3. Michalek
4. Klesla
5. Morris
6. Stone
7. Schlemko
(8. Summers)
9. Gormley
10. Goncharov
11. Rundblad
12. Mathieu Brodeur
13. Justin Weller
14. Mark Louis

Plus next year Connor Murphy leaves the OHL (their 2011 first rounder). I don't see room for Ian Cole going back in a hypothetical Yandle trade. They have Summers and Stone. They would want to let Goncharov or Gormley have minutes before they'd want to allocate any to Cole.

I could also maybe see Schwartz for Gormley straight up. Both are high end prospects, it's a fair even up trade, they were even taken consecutively in the draft. Schwartz is pegged as the McDonald replacement but they can more easily trade for a winger or replace him from within. Not saying this would or should happen, but it would be an utterly defensible idea if Armstrong went there.

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07-02-2012, 09:11 PM
  #299
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I wish Parise would sign already because his signing will likely open the flood gates. (Suter waiting on Parise, Carle waiting on Suter, Semin in there somewhere.) I know from that list the Blues are only linked with Carle but it should all still be entertaining.

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07-02-2012, 09:43 PM
  #300
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I wish Parise would sign already because his signing will likely open the flood gates. (Suter waiting on Parise, Carle waiting on Suter, Semin in there somewhere.) I know from that list the Blues are only linked with Carle but it should all still be entertaining.


It will be entertaining for some teams, but not for the Blues. There is no way the Blues will be in the bidding war for those players. It sucks too because the Blues are so close to winning the cup. A couple players away.

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