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Video: 2012 NHL Draft ? Mikhail Grigorenko, Buffalo Sabres

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06-25-2012, 01:25 AM
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Video: 2012 NHL Draft ? Mikhail Grigorenko, Buffalo Sabres

 

In the early going of the 2011-12 season, center Mikhail Grigorenko was considered by some to be the top prospect available for the 2012 NHL Draft.  By season's end, however, the talented Russian was dropping in the rankings, finally being chosen with the 12th selection overall by the Buffalo Sabres.

Grigorenko's drop was primarily attributed to some lackluster play in the season's second half, which may have been attributable to a bout of mononucleosis that was diagnosed in April.  Rumors were also suggesting that Grigorenko, who played this past season for the QMJHL's Quebec Remparts, might instead play in the KHL next season.… read more



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06-25-2012, 10:55 AM
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*

In the early going of the 2011-12 season, center Mikhail Grigorenko was considered by some to be the top prospect available for the 2012 NHL Draft.* By season's end, however, the talented Russian was dropping in the rankings, finally being chosen with the 12th selection overall by the Buffalo Sabres.

Grigorenko's drop was primarily attributed to some lackluster play in the season's second half, which may have been attributable to a bout of mononucleosis that was diagnosed in April.* Rumors were also suggesting that Grigorenko, who played this past season for the QMJHL's Quebec Remparts, might instead play in the KHL next season. read more



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Grigorenko is a slick, highly skilled player, but he has never really exhibited the attributes of toughness, hunger or leadership. In terms of a Russian model, I think he is highly remiscent of Igor Larionov. He is highly gifted as a skater, stickhandler and playmaker, but he has never shown the ability to be the go-to guy when things aren't going well against a really tough opponent (see the Ivan Hlinka game last year against Canada). He plays a kind of low-key game that is not particularly suitable to the scrum that is the NHL. The NHL model is more closely exemplified by Yakupov, who is obviously highly skilled, but also aggressive and tough, and, if you don't keep your head up, will make you pay. Maybe he could have gone a couple of picks earlier, but from what he's shown of himself, I don't thing being picked No. 12 is that far off.

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06-25-2012, 01:13 PM
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Grigorenko is a slick, highly skilled player, but he has never really exhibited the attributes of toughness, hunger or leadership. In terms of a Russian model, I think he is highly remiscent of Igor Larionov. He is highly gifted as a skater, stickhandler and playmaker, but he has never shown the ability to be the go-to guy when things aren't going well against a really tough opponent (see the Ivan Hlinka game last year against Canada). He plays a kind of low-key game that is not particularly suitable to the scrum that is the NHL. The NHL model is more closely exemplified by Yakupov, who is obviously highly skilled, but also aggressive and tough, and, if you don't keep your head up, will make you pay. Maybe he could have gone a couple of picks earlier, but from what he's shown of himself, I don't thing being picked No. 12 is that far off.

Well, I'm interested to see how he will play at the 4 game series in Yaroslavl/Halifax as the number 1 center. Do you see any other Russian center who will be the go to guy (leader) on that team? Yakupov will dance and do his thing, score goals and put up points, but teams win tournaments/championships in the middle of the ice. = centers are the key. So, I'm anxious to see how he will match up against Canada's top centers. Should be interesting, I figure then we'll have a better picture of what kind of player he may develop into.....

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06-25-2012, 02:01 PM
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Well, I'm interested to see how he will play at the 4 game series in Yaroslavl/Halifax as the number 1 center. Do you see any other Russian center who will be the go to guy (leader) on that team? Yakupov will dance and do his thing, score goals and put up points, but teams win tournaments/championships in the middle of the ice. = centers are the key. So, I'm anxious to see how he will match up against Canada's top centers. Should be interesting, I figure then we'll have a better picture of what kind of player he may develop into.....
If you are talking about the Center position exclusively, in addition to Grigorenko, who will have a lot of incentive to make a good showing in the series, the best will be Prokhorkin and Khokhlachev, along with potentially Bogdan Yakimov, who is big and strong and tough. Prokhorkin is not only highly skilled, but has developed a reputation as a tough fighter in the MHL As to how they will match up, I would expect Canadians to continue to have the edge in faceoffs, but in other respects, my expectation is that the Russians will match up better in all other facets of the game than their counterparts in 2007.

I think the Russians were truly taken by surprise by the physical side of the Canadian game under Brent Sutter in 2007, particularly when non-IIHF referees were much more tolerant of the physical stuff. Things have changed dramatically in Russian hockey since then. The KHL has seemingly embraced bloody fights for their entertainment value, and some teams like Vityaz have loaded up on Canadian goons (Chris Simon, Josh Gratton, Darcy Varot, Brennan, etc.) who make a lot more money, and are afforded wider leeway, than they got in the NHL. As it become more competitive, the MHL has become more physical as well. I expect the Russians to have adapted to the physical game, and not to get run out of the rink. There are a lot of Canadian players who I have not seen play, so I don't really know what the Russians are up against. As always, I expect that the best Canadians will be very, very good.

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06-25-2012, 02:22 PM
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If you are talking about the Center position exclusively, in addition to Grigorenko, who will have a lot of incentive to make a good showing in the series, the best will be Prokhorkin and Khokhlachev, along with potentially Bogdan Yakimov, who is big and strong and tough. Prokhorkin is not only highly skilled, but has developed a reputation as a tough fighter in the MHL As to how they will match up, I would expect Canadians to continue to have the edge in faceoffs, but in other respects, my expectation is that the Russians will match up better in all other facets of the game than their counterparts in 2007.

I think the Russians were truly taken by surprise by the physical side of the Canadian game under Brent Sutter in 2007, particularly when non-IIHF referees were much more tolerant of the physical stuff. Things have changed dramatically in Russian hockey since then. The KHL has seemingly embraced bloody fights for their entertainment value, and some teams like Vityaz have loaded up on Canadian goons (Chris Simon, Josh Gratton, Darcy Varot, Brennan, etc.) who make a lot more money, and are afforded wider leeway, than they got in the NHL. As it become more competitive, the MHL has become more physical as well. I expect the Russians to have adapted to the physical game, and not to get run out of the rink. There are a lot of Canadian players who I have not seen play, so I don't really know what the Russians are up against. As always, I expect that the best Canadians will be very, very good.
Vityaz has a new coach who says the goon days are over and they will try and play some hockey! We'll see how it unfolds. I actually went to a Vityaz game last year and can't say that I was overly impressed with their tactics and the Canadians they import. I think there is a better way to try and introduce an element of physical hockey into the Russian game without resorting to those tactics, but the KHL is trying to create the spectacle as well, NHL style I suppose! How did Ovechkin develop his physical game before the days of the KHL? As far as 2007 goes and Russians being surprised by Canada's physical game? Come on!!! How long have we been going at it? In 2007 it was 35 years! There are no surprises anymore, Russia knows everything about Canada and the way we play and Canada knows everything about Russia and the way Russian hockey is played. At least WE (we= canada and russia) like to think so.

I would still like to see Ryan Nugent Hopkins compete in this series, but since there's no chance of him being available at Christmas to go to Ufa, what's the point I suppose! As to how both teams will match up... I'm sure the games will be highly competitive and entertaining! They better be, 2007 was a major disappointment from a competitive standpoint. I'm still waiting for that Russian D-man Chudinov to show up in the NHL sometime, Claude Giroux still owes him some payback for a late hit.

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06-25-2012, 02:24 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzwhi0J4-u0

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06-25-2012, 03:09 PM
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If you are talking about the Center position exclusively, in addition to Grigorenko, who will have a lot of incentive to make a good showing in the series, the best will be Prokhorkin and Khokhlachev, along with potentially Bogdan Yakimov, who is big and strong and tough. Prokhorkin is not only highly skilled, but has developed a reputation as a tough fighter in the MHL As to how they will match up, I would expect Canadians to continue to have the edge in faceoffs, but in other respects, my expectation is that the Russians will match up better in all other facets of the game than their counterparts in 2007.

I think the Russians were truly taken by surprise by the physical side of the Canadian game under Brent Sutter in 2007, particularly when non-IIHF referees were much more tolerant of the physical stuff. Things have changed dramatically in Russian hockey since then. The KHL has seemingly embraced bloody fights for their entertainment value, and some teams like Vityaz have loaded up on Canadian goons (Chris Simon, Josh Gratton, Darcy Varot, Brennan, etc.) who make a lot more money, and are afforded wider leeway, than they got in the NHL. As it become more competitive, the MHL has become more physical as well. I expect the Russians to have adapted to the physical game, and not to get run out of the rink. There are a lot of Canadian players who I have not seen play, so I don't really know what the Russians are up against. As always, I expect that the best Canadians will be very, very good.
Canada's physical play didn't surprise them; Canada just outclassed them in every facet of the game. The 1988-89 generations are/were complete garbage.....and with Nemchinov coaching, the series was a joke.

But that 2007 beatdown was the best thing to happen to Russian junior hockey. Like you said, so many positive changes have been made. For instance, I can't think of a time in the last few years where a Russian team (on any level) has been physically intimidated by anyone.

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06-25-2012, 03:17 PM
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Vityaz has a new coach who says the goon days are over and they will try and play some hockey! We'll see how it unfolds. I actually went to a Vityaz game last year and can't say that I was overly impressed with their tactics and the Canadians they import. I think there is a better way to try and introduce an element of physical hockey into the Russian game without resorting to those tactics, but the KHL is trying to create the spectacle as well, NHL style I suppose! How did Ovechkin develop his physical game before the days of the KHL? As far as 2007 goes and Russians being surprised by Canada's physical game? Come on!!! How long have we been going at it? In 2007 it was 35 years! There are no surprises anymore, Russia knows everything about Canada and the way we play and Canada knows everything about Russia and the way Russian hockey is played. At least WE (we= canada and russia) like to think so.

I would still like to see Ryan Nugent Hopkins compete in this series, but since there's no chance of him being available at Christmas to go to Ufa, what's the point I suppose! As to how both teams will match up... I'm sure the games will be highly competitive and entertaining! They better be, 2007 was a major disappointment from a competitive standpoint. I'm still waiting for that Russian D-man Chudinov to show up in the NHL sometime, Claude Giroux still owes him some payback for a late hit.
To be fair, Vityaz is the absolute extreme and doesn't represent how 99% of the KHL or MHLers play or conduct themselves.
The overall physicality and/or fighting in the KHL/MHL isn't a reflection of Vityaz or their MHL club.

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06-25-2012, 03:26 PM
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If you are talking about the Center position exclusively, in addition to Grigorenko, who will have a lot of incentive to make a good showing in the series, the best will be Prokhorkin and Khokhlachev, along with potentially Bogdan Yakimov, who is big and strong and tough. Prokhorkin is not only highly skilled, but has developed a reputation as a tough fighter in the MHL As to how they will match up, I would expect Canadians to continue to have the edge in faceoffs, but in other respects, my expectation is that the Russians will match up better in all other facets of the game than their counterparts in 2007.
I'd take Kadeikin over Yakimov (who's a late '94). Grigorenko/Prokhorkin/Khokhlachev/Kadeikin looks really potent.

Or move Prokhorkin to wing because Kucherov isn't playing, and then include Yakimov at C, or even Buchnevich.

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06-25-2012, 06:30 PM
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Canada's physical play didn't surprise them; Canada just outclassed them in every facet of the game. The 1988-89 generations are/were complete garbage.....and with Nemchinov coaching, the series was a joke.

But that 2007 beatdown was the best thing to happen to Russian junior hockey. Like you said, so many positive changes have been made. For instance, I can't think of a time in the last few years where a Russian team (on any level) has been physically intimidated by anyone.
From what I've read and heard, that series was the primary wake-up call that prompted the creation of the MHL, which is the best thing, IMO, that ever happened to Russian youth hockey (just as the creation of the CHL was the best thing that ever happend to Canadian hockey). i agree that no one has intimidated Russian teams in recent times.

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06-25-2012, 06:33 PM
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I'd take Kadeikin over Yakimov (who's a late '94). Grigorenko/Prokhorkin/Khokhlachev/Kadeikin looks really potent.

Or move Prokhorkin to wing because Kucherov isn't playing, and then include Yakimov at C, or even Buchnevich.
I really liked Yakimov in this year's WU18, but a lot of people prefer Kadeikin over him. I could see it either way.

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06-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Vityaz has a new coach who says the goon days are over and they will try and play some hockey! We'll see how it unfolds. I actually went to a Vityaz game last year and can't say that I was overly impressed with their tactics and the Canadians they import. I think there is a better way to try and introduce an element of physical hockey into the Russian game without resorting to those tactics, but the KHL is trying to create the spectacle as well, NHL style I suppose! How did Ovechkin develop his physical game before the days of the KHL? As far as 2007 goes and Russians being surprised by Canada's physical game? Come on!!! How long have we been going at it? In 2007 it was 35 years! There are no surprises anymore, Russia knows everything about Canada and the way we play and Canada knows everything about Russia and the way Russian hockey is played. At least WE (we= canada and russia) like to think so.

I would still like to see Ryan Nugent Hopkins compete in this series, but since there's no chance of him being available at Christmas to go to Ufa, what's the point I suppose! As to how both teams will match up... I'm sure the games will be highly competitive and entertaining! They better be, 2007 was a major disappointment from a competitive standpoint. I'm still waiting for that Russian D-man Chudinov to show up in the NHL sometime, Claude Giroux still owes him some payback for a late hit.
In regard to Ovechkin, there have always been individual Russian players who were physical (e.g., Konstantinov). But the Russian style wasn't particularly physical, particularly on the big ice, when it can be more counterproductive than effective. That is changing with the KHL, and Russian players are clearly playing a more physical style. I am cautiously optimistic, for some of the reasons that Zine points out, that this series will be more competitive than 2007.

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06-26-2012, 04:02 AM
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In regard to Ovechkin, there have always been individual Russian players who were physical (e.g., Konstantinov). But the Russian style wasn't particularly physical, particularly on the big ice, when it can be more counterproductive than effective. That is changing with the KHL, and Russian players are clearly playing a more physical style. I am cautiously optimistic, for some of the reasons that Zine points out, that this series will be more competitive than 2007.

I don't disagree with that assessment that 2007 was the low point from a developmental perspective in Russian hockey and a number of other factors contributed to the lopsided result in 2007. I hope for better more competitive games this summer.

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06-26-2012, 04:06 AM
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In regard to Ovechkin, there have always been individual Russian players who were physical (e.g., Konstantinov). But the Russian style wasn't particularly physical, particularly on the big ice, when it can be more counterproductive than effective. That is changing with the KHL, and Russian players are clearly playing a more physical style. I am cautiously optimistic, for some of the reasons that Zine points out, that this series will be more competitive than 2007.
Given Zharkov's recent comments after being drafted, remarks that are being criticized in the Russian media and fans calling him another Karbanov, do you think he'll be invited to play?

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06-26-2012, 07:24 AM
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Personally, I think some of the critisism about Grigorenko might be unfair.

As Patrick Roy has stated, Grigorenko's poor finish to the season wasn't because of the lack of desire as much as it was because of lack of stamina at this point.

I think he'll fix that.

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06-26-2012, 10:03 AM
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what kind of Stamina do you expect with MONO? do you people know what this is? People aren't supposed to do any physical activity in like 6 month.

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06-26-2012, 10:09 AM
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Given Zharkov's recent comments after being drafted, remarks that are being criticized in the Russian media and fans calling him another Karbanov, do you think he'll be invited to play?
He is a good player. He is another big guy who can skate and handle the puck, so I think he will be a candidate. It probably just depends on how well he plays in whatever kind of evaluation camp that Varnakov has. I don't know Varnakov well as a coach, but he is a protege of Bilyaletdinov, so he may place greater emphasis on defense than we've seen in recent years.

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06-26-2012, 10:16 AM
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what kind of Stamina do you expect with MONO? do you people know what this is? People aren't supposed to do any physical activity in like 6 month.
I've had mono, and it is amazing to me that he could even get out of bed when it was active. He also played hurt through much of the WJC, so you can't say that he is soft or complacent. Depending on when he contracted it, I wonder if he will be ready to go in August for this series?

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06-26-2012, 10:47 AM
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He is a good player. He is another big guy who can skate and handle the puck, so I think he will be a candidate. It probably just depends on how well he plays in whatever kind of evaluation camp that Varnakov has. I don't know Varnakov well as a coach, but he is a protege of Bilyaletdinov, so he may place greater emphasis on defense than we've seen in recent years.
Super! lets have at it and knock some heads! LOL

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06-26-2012, 05:11 PM
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Super! lets have at it and knock some heads! LOL
I'm looking forward to it!

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07-02-2012, 10:46 AM
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I've had mono, and it is amazing to me that he could even get out of bed when it was active. He also played hurt through much of the WJC, so you can't say that he is soft or complacent. Depending on when he contracted it, I wonder if he will be ready to go in August for this series?
Enough excuse making. There are drastically varying degrees of illness associated with mono. Some cases are extremely mild.

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07-02-2012, 06:04 PM
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Just a little frustration there - no harm done! Chudinov is not a national team candidate, but if they did meet up again, hopefully Giroux wouldn't crumple up like a paper bag again. It looked like there was a lot of drama and diving when he went down.

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07-02-2012, 06:08 PM
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Enough excuse making. There are drastically varying degrees of illness associated with mono. Some cases are extremely mild.
Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that what you are saying is halfway true. How do you know that his was a relatively mild case? Analyzed from all possible angles and perspectives, that was not a very intelligent statement on your part.

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