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Old
06-28-2012, 02:55 PM
  #101
Boomhower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Thank god you arent the GM of the Red Wings. We can look forward to the Wings not making the playoffs with your ridiculous pessimism. It's like the Red Wings are a garbage average franchise that has to scratch and claw to get any good FA's.

Suter is going to be a Wing. Parise.......probably not. Semin........feel pretty good about it.
I'm not saying it isn't worth trying and throwing a lot of money at them.
But I'm being a realist, there are two absolute top tier UFA's this year. You can't expect Detroit to land one of them, let alone both!
Penciling in superstars when 15-20 other teams are openly pursuing does not make you a successful GM. Any idiot could do that, it's having a realistic plan should you lose the lottery... like most teams will!

Semin, I said might be a possibility. I honestly haven't even heard if Detroit is actually interested...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Ken Holland should be fired if he does nothing with 24 million dollars except sign a bunch of value players.
A 30 team pool and Holland MUST come out with one of the top 3 Free Agents... Two of which still might not even make the open market... sounds reasonable.


Last edited by Boomhower: 06-28-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old
06-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
I'm not saying it isn't worth trying and throwing a lot of money at them.
But I'm being a realist, there are two absolute top tier UFA's this year. You can't expect Detroit to land one of them, let alone both!
Penciling in superstars when 15-20 other teams are openly pursuing does not make you a successful GM. Any idiot could do that, it's having a realistic plan should you lose the lottery... like most teams will!

Semin, I said might be a possibility. I honestly haven't even heard if Detroit is actually interested...
you're right without a doubt to an extent but good lord if thats happens and he makes no trades, i hope he knows a good witness protection program

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Old
06-28-2012, 03:07 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
I'm not saying it isn't worth trying and throwing a lot of money at them.
But I'm being a realist, there are two absolute top tier UFA's this year. You can't expect Detroit to land one of them, let alone both!
Penciling in superstars when 15-20 other teams are openly pursuing does not make you a successful GM. Any idiot could do that, it's having a realistic plan should you lose the lottery... like most teams will!

Semin, I said might be a possibility. I honestly haven't even heard if Detroit is actually interested...



A 30 team pool and Holland MUST come out with one of the top 3 Free Agents... Two of which still might not even make the open market... sounds reasonable.
This is the position Ken Holland has put the team in. He felt that the team was good enough the past three years without making any big moves. The price you pay for complacency.

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:15 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
This is What the Wings are REALISTICALLY looking at in my opinion:

Forwards:
Filppula - Datsyuk - UFA (1)
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Miller - Helm - Bertuzzi
Cleary - UFA (2) - Tatar/Eaves/Abdelkader

Defense
Kronwall - White
Quincey - UFA (3)
Ericsson - Smith
Kindl

UFA (1) -- Slim picking for a top line winger.
Talk of bringing Datsyuk in a fellow Russian.. Semin and A. Kostitsyn are a couple high risk/reward types.
Seems like Jagr (and his agent), soiled the relationship with Holland last year, so I doubt he is a possibility.
Not sure if Smyth and Jokinen are remaining in Alberta (both like it there), but either could be a one year stop gap solutions.
Boyes and Kristian Huselius ??? they've scored in the past... what can I say, it's a shallow pool for top line UFA wingers.
Or...Hudler could return

UFA (2) -- Depth checking line player with speed. Ideally a centre.
Jay McClement, Scott Nichol. I like both of them for their speed, defensive abilities and faceoff abilities. True centre ice men too. Nichol brings a little more grit.
Konopka and Micheal Haley are more gritty options. I've always liked Haley and think he could thrive in NHL given the right circumstance.
I'd prefer a centre, but settling for checking line wingers Langenbrunner or Taylor Pyatt wouldn't be bad either.
Also Rolston really came alive in Boston at the end of last year and still has that great speed that Detroit could use... Old as dirt, so won't be popular, I know.
Hagman is another burner, who is a relentless worker. But another small European forward, so also won't be popular, I know.

UFA (3) -- Preferably a defenseman with some size.
A bunch of options: Allen, Garrison, Kubina, Salvador, Souray, Salo, Roszinval.
Salvador looked great last year in NJD's top 4 and is a fitness freak. Him and Kubina would be my favorite options.
I would steer clear of Salo b/c of the injuries and Garrison because he may get big pay day for one season.
Cam Barker would be my personal favorite as a cheap project. I just can't give up on him yet. I thought he still looked somewhat promising when healthy last year.


Notes/shots of reality: I would love to just plug in Suter, Parise and Prust and call it an offseason, but come on...
Parise and Suter: I do not expect either of them to sign here.
It's completely unrealsitic. Every team in the league is going to covet these two and it sounds like Parise wants to stay in NJ and Pittsburgh is the favorite if Suter even leaves Nashville in the first place.
I like how posters are penciling them into the Wings lineup already, these are the same people who will bash Holland when it doesn't happen (and who had Schultz penciled into the lineup last week). Classic, when did the Red Wings become the Miami Heat of the NHL?

Prust: a good checking line player. But the hype is over the top. And given Tortorella loved the guy, but the Rangers didn't even negotiate once they heard his demands.. he must be asking for the world. I think there are very effective checking line/PKers out there who will be had for 1.5M less per year.

Doan: Would be great, but I don't see any reason he would want to sign in Detroit. Western Canadian Kid, who has played down south most of his career and family loved living out there. Also stated he didn't care to leave PHX for a contender. Again would be nice, but I fail to see any chance.
UFA forwards with 50+ points last season:
Ray Whitney
Zach Parise
P.A. Parenteau
Teemu Selanne
Olli Jokinen
Alex Semin
Jaromir Jagr
Jiri Hudler
Shane Doan

Other UFA forwards "on pace" for 50+ over 82 games last season:
Kyle Wellwood

That's ten. Detroit needs to sign at least one of these guys, two would be better. Selanne, Jagr, and Doan can probably be written off right away because the chances any of the three come to Detroit are slim. Whitney is a longshot because of his age, and Parenteau is almost exclusively a playmaker (as is Whitney, primarily) when the team is looking more for goal scoring as Dats, Z, and Flip can handle the playmaking. So that leaves Parise, Jokinen, Semin, Hudler, and Wellwood. Not sure on how available Jokinen is (he may go the Selanne/Doan route) and the Parise and Semin sweepstakes may push the Wings out. Hudler would cost the Wings less than his market value compared to other equivalent forwards, and Wellwood may not be a bad pickup to anchor a third scoring line. He's a strong faceoff man (54% last year and in 09-10, 57.5% in 08-09) and picked up 37 points at ES splitting time between Winnipeg's second and third lines. Might not be a bad option instead of going after a guy like Gaustad, Nichol, or McClement.

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:58 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Parise and Suter: I do not expect either of them to sign here.
It's completely unrealsitic. Every team in the league is going to covet these two and it sounds like Parise wants to stay in NJ and Pittsburgh is the favorite if Suter even leaves Nashville in the first place.
I like how posters are penciling them into the Wings lineup already, these are the same people who will bash Holland when it doesn't happen (and who had Schultz penciled into the lineup last week). Classic, when did the Red Wings become the Miami Heat of the NHL?
NOBODY believes that except the most blind Pittsburgh homers.

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Old
06-29-2012, 01:10 AM
  #106
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Parise and Suter: I do not expect either of them to sign here.
It's completely unrealsitic. Every team in the league is going to covet these two and it sounds like Parise wants to stay in NJ and Pittsburgh is the favorite if Suter even leaves Nashville in the first place.
I like how posters are penciling them into the Wings lineup already, these are the same people who will bash Holland when it doesn't happen (and who had Schultz penciled into the lineup last week). Classic, when did the Red Wings become the Miami Heat of the NHL?

[[/QUOTE]

This is the dumbest **** I have ever heard. The Wings have 3 rosters spots open right now and 8 MILLION dollars UNDER the cap FLOOR. They can throw huge contracts at Suter and Parise and still be well under the cap.

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Old
06-29-2012, 09:55 AM
  #107
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I was wasting some time playing around with cap geek and was interested in some thoughts about a line up like this. Left room under the cap in case it goes down and if the caphits are a little low.

FORWARDS
Dustin Penner ($4.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.000m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damian Brunner ($1.000m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Sheldon Brookbank ($0.900m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)


GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Martin Biron ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,483,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $2,716,288
The roster has 24 guys on it just in case Eaves won't be able to start the year.


Penner would add some size to the top 6 and is coming off a injuried filled year. Plus he put up 11 points in 20 games in the playoffs. He could also be the new Homer on the power play.

Semin is the fast right handed goal scorer for Datsyuk.

Brunner, Helm and Nyquist would be one of the fastest third lines around I would guess.

Abdelkader will be due a raise, he brings hitting and will fight on occassion to the bottom 6.

Suter nothing needs to be said.

Brookbank is coming of a great season with 14 points and + 11. He could either be the 6th or 7th guy. Let Kindl, Smith and him fight it out for that 5th-6th spot. He is also right handed and will drop the gloves when needed.

Biron should be good to play 20-25 games and win you 12-15 of them.

Thoughts?

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Old
06-29-2012, 09:58 AM
  #108
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I want no part of Penner. He was pretty good in the playoffs, but he was crap the entire season. No thanks.

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06-29-2012, 10:12 AM
  #109
probertrules24
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Originally Posted by Rice View Post
I want no part of Penner. He was pretty good in the playoffs, but he was crap the entire season. No thanks.
This is all just fantasy so we could switch Penner for Doan and then move Val to be datsyuks LW and Doan to Z's RW Franzen to LW. Would still fit under the cap.

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Old
07-01-2012, 11:54 AM
  #110
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updated with the Gustavsson signing -- $23ish million to spend assuming JoeyMac now ends up off the Wings' cap and in Grand Rapids...

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07-01-2012, 05:48 PM
  #111
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removed JoeyMac, and updated with the Samuelsson & Tootoo signings... after cleaning the taste of barf out of my mouth and recalculating, we've got just over $18mil to spend.

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Old
07-01-2012, 05:58 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacK View Post
removed JoeyMac, and updated with the Samuelsson & Tootoo signings... after cleaning the taste of barf out of my mouth and recalculating, we've got just over $18mil to spend.
Around $13 mil after Abby and Quincey are re-signed. Not enough to sign Parise and Suter, so some people will be dealt or waived.

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07-01-2012, 06:26 PM
  #113
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Doubtful we sign both of them.

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Old
07-01-2012, 06:30 PM
  #114
ProPAIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacK View Post
removed JoeyMac, and updated with the Samuelsson & Tootoo signings... after cleaning the taste of barf out of my mouth and recalculating, we've got just over $18mil to spend.
You didn't add Brunner. Are you not going to add guys on two-way deals?

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07-01-2012, 06:57 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Around $13 mil after Abby and Quincey are re-signed. Not enough to sign Parise and Suter, so some people will be dealt or waived.
yeah, i still 'expect' 2 more forward signings; Gator + Parise/Semin/?, and 2 more defense signings; Quincey + Suter/?
cap we can go over by a bit til we sort things out, but there almost has to be some other moves made to create some roster space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
You didn't add Brunner. Are you not going to add guys on two-way deals?
i just don't see any room for Brunner with the big boys, regardless of his contract, and regardless what Babs says.
we've got 14 forwards on the roster without Abby and an UFA signing, so until we see some trades or get clarification on Eaves' status maybe, i don't see a 1st-year overseas rookie free-agent bumping anyone from the roster.

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07-01-2012, 08:29 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Around $13 mil after Abby and Quincey are re-signed. Not enough to sign Parise and Suter, so some people will be dealt or waived.
Suter or Parise/Semin or both will be signed before Abby and Quincey. So the real question is how much we have left after signing Suter/Parise/Semin not how much we have left after signing Quincey and Abby.

But your point still stands.

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.700m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.600m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Damien Brunner ($0.925m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.700m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $72,192,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (26-man roster):- $1,992,045

Signing both Suter and Semin to reasonable market deals while re-signing RFA's doesn't put us much over the cap.
A few options:
-Deal/waive Emmerton, Mursak and Miller/Eaves
-Demote Nyquist, Brunner to start the season and deal/waive Mursak/Emmerton.
-Look to dump Bert or Cleary.

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07-02-2012, 09:18 AM
  #117
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Around $13 mil after Abby and Quincey are re-signed. Not enough to sign Parise and Suter, so some people will be dealt or waived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Suter or Parise/Semin or both will be signed before Abby and Quincey. So the real question is how much we have left after signing Suter/Parise/Semin not how much we have left after signing Quincey and Abby.

But your point still stands.

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.700m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.600m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Damien Brunner ($0.925m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.700m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $72,192,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (26-man roster):- $1,992,045

Signing both Suter and Semin to reasonable market deals while re-signing RFA's doesn't put us much over the cap.
A few options:
-Deal/waive Emmerton, Mursak and Miller/Eaves
-Demote Nyquist, Brunner to start the season and deal/waive Mursak/Emmerton.
-Look to dump Bert or Cleary.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($8.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jiri Hudler ($4.000m)
Damien Brunner ($0.925m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($8.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Kyle Quincey ($1.000m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,033,712; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $166,288

Trade Emmerton, Cleary, and Eaves. Emmerton can wait until after the season starts if necessary as Brunner can be demoted to start. If Quincey won't take that deal, trade him for a similarly aged defensive guy who will and/or picks/prospects, and ultimately fill his spot with a guy like Hannan, Colin White, Steve Staois, or someone through trade.

EDIT: Getting Semin for around $6m makes this come out a lot easier, and makes the defenseman fill easier - although I'd still rather Quincey/Cleary/Eaves/Emmerton be part of a deal for a (preferably sub-30, but a good physical vet would work) Stuart-replacement defenseman to fill that spot. Maybe Chris Phillips could be had with some picks/prospects coming back as well? Ottawa would probably love to get that many good roster players for one current guy. Put Phillips with White, nothing else changes.


Last edited by pdd: 07-02-2012 at 09:28 AM.
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07-02-2012, 01:47 PM
  #118
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Why do we want Semin, again? All everybody ever does on this forum is whine about lazy players, why are we suddenly so eager to add another one into the roster?

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07-02-2012, 03:22 PM
  #119
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Why do we want Semin, again? All everybody ever does on this forum is whine about lazy players, why are we suddenly so eager to add another one into the roster?
Because he would battle like a superman when inspired playing with Datsyuk.

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07-02-2012, 03:35 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
Why do we want Semin, again? All everybody ever does on this forum is whine about lazy players, why are we suddenly so eager to add another one into the roster?
He IS a very gifted player.

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07-02-2012, 04:24 PM
  #121
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Hudler to Flames for 4/$16, $4m cap hit (exactly the number I called)...

Why again did Holland sign Samuelsson and not sign Hudler?

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07-02-2012, 04:28 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Hudler to Flames for 4/$16, $4m cap hit (exactly the number I called)...

Why again did Holland sign Samuelsson and not sign Hudler?
RH shot/PP QB ability. Saved a million bucks. Is faster. Is bigger. Is grittier.

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07-02-2012, 06:27 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
Why do we want Semin, again? All everybody ever does on this forum is whine about lazy players, why are we suddenly so eager to add another one into the roster?
He fights, he can be the best player in the NHL if/when he wants to ( means around 5 shifts per year) and he can play bongo better than any other NHL player. Crawford praised him a LOT just yesterday.

And imagine Datsyuk feeding for this shot




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07-02-2012, 08:31 PM
  #124
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He fights, he can be the best player in the NHL if/when he wants to ( means around 5 shifts per year) and he can play bongo better than any other NHL player. Crawford praised him a LOT just yesterday.

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07-03-2012, 02:20 AM
  #125
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It's a love/hate type of deal. But if he consistently put up 35 goals and 70-80 points on Pavel's wing, and play with the same intensity he did in this year's playoffs when the games matter, I want that player on my team.

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