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The Nash Thread IV (All things Nash here)

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Old
07-02-2012, 07:25 PM
  #51
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Lets go propose on their board and get ripped to shreds!
Hey they want Nash, they can go pound sand for all I care. We'll keep Nash and make him play here until he waives for the trade we want. He's really starting to piss me off with his "list."

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07-02-2012, 07:25 PM
  #52
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Btw with all these Cane rumors, I want Skinner. If hes not included, I could care less what they have to say.
+1....

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07-02-2012, 07:29 PM
  #53
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Flyers interloper here...

I'd be interested in seeing what else Anaheim would ask for above Johansen. At least some reports suggested that they wanted Voracek + Schenn from the Flyers--so I'm not sure tagging Mason on (who the Ducks don't need and likely wouldn't want) would get the job done.

Apparently, they are looking for both a 2C and a top-six winger.
I'm not sure how much faith I put in that. The Ducks prospect strength is at forward and they have several guys that will be competing for roster time at the forward position--Palmieri, Holland, Etem, etc. Long-term, the Ducks bigger need is probably at defense. Even with their acquisitions yesterday, their prospects at that position are slimmer. Would a guy like Tyutin or moreso, John Moore, be of interest? Based on at least one or two Ducks fans recent questions in that regard, I think the answer may be, yes.

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07-02-2012, 07:37 PM
  #54
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For awhile there this afternoon, it appeared that perhaps Parise had made his decision on where he was going to sign only for him instead to announce that he was going to sleep on the decision until tomorrow. I can only hope that once that domino falls then this one will too, to our collective relief.

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07-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm not sure how much faith I put in that. The Ducks prospect strength is at forward and they have several guys that will be competing for roster time at the forward position--Palmieri, Holland, Etem, etc. Long-term, the Ducks bigger need is probably at defense. Even with their acquisitions yesterday, their prospects at that position are slimmer. Would a guy like Tyutin or moreso, John Moore, be of interest? Based on at least one or two Ducks fans recent questions in that regard, I think the answer may be, yes.
Moore or Savard might make sense--depending on how high they are. On the other hand, I believe that I read that they think Lindholm could be ready as soon as 2013-14--and combined with Fowler and Sbisa, they have a solid trio of blue-chip top-4 guys. I do know that most of their fans dismissed Mezsaros as a negative value and suggested he couldn't crack their NHL line-up--and that was before yesterday's signings.

The consensus this morning seemed to be that the Ducks would expect forwards over defenseman back...but, admittedly, that's just the fans posing.

I don't think they expect Etem to be ready for a top-six role for some time, and they see Palmieri more as a third-liner player next season. I think the whole reason they are desperate to find a young 2C is that they don't have a ton of confidence in Holland to develop into that role, but, again, I'm just going off my general impressions of the first 3,500 + posts of the Bobby Ryan trade thread.

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07-02-2012, 07:47 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'm not sure how much faith I put in that. The Ducks prospect strength is at forward and they have several guys that will be competing for roster time at the forward position--Palmieri, Holland, Etem, etc. Long-term, the Ducks bigger need is probably at defense. Even with their acquisitions yesterday, their prospects at that position are slimmer. Would a guy like Tyutin or moreso, John Moore, be of interest? Based on at least one or two Ducks fans recent questions in that regard, I think the answer maA y be, yes.
A possible: Moore+ Johanansen +(?) for Ryan

Whoa....If he isn't crying in a corner at the thought of playing here. Get him on a plane.

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07-02-2012, 07:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
A possible: Moore+ Johanansen +(?) for Ryan

Whoa....If he isn't crying in a corner at the thought of playing here. Get him on a plane.
I'd think you could get it down around Brassard--who is better suited to step in and play the 2C role now than Johansen anyway--but maybe I'm overly optimistic.

I assume that would be the general preference, right? I mean it would seem to leave you a bit short in the middle this year, but better off long-term?

(I'd love him on the Flyers, but, next to that, anywhere by Pittsburgh or the Rangers will do quite nicely. If you could just go ahead and send Nash somewhere for a nice plush offer that doesn't include us giving up Schenn or Couturier, that would be fine too).

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07-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
A possible: Moore+ Johanansen +(?) for Ryan

Whoa....If he isn't crying in a corner at the thought of playing here. Get him on a plane.
I cant see him doing so. He's good friends with JJ and would probably like the opportunity to be a star here. I'm sure he knows a lot of USA players here. Cam JJ Pavelski if we get him. RJ too probably. Wiz also..

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07-02-2012, 08:02 PM
  #59
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I'd think you could get it down around Brassard--who is better suited to step in and play the 2C role now than Johansen anyway--but maybe I'm overly optimistic.

I assume that would be the general preference, right? I mean it would seem to leave you a bit short in the middle this year, but better off long-term?

(I'd love him on the Flyers, but, next to that, anywhere by Pittsburgh or the Rangers will do quite nicely. If you could just go ahead and send Nash somewhere for a nice plush offer that doesn't include us giving up Schenn or Couturier, that would be fine too).
Jesus....I would think the Ducks would want Johannsen over Brassard. I mean the kid is like 19 or 20. Hell yeah. If we could get Ryan for Brassard and Moore. My lord. I would have to think there would be other teams that could offer a million better offers. Like the Rangers for one. But apparently, they only offer up C level prospects and Dubi for a big time goal scorer

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07-02-2012, 08:05 PM
  #60
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Jesus....I would think the Ducks would want Johannsen over Brassard. I mean the kid is like 19 or 20. Hell yeah. If we could get Ryan for Brassard and Moore. My lord. I would have to think there would be other teams that could offer a million better offers. Like the Rangers for one. But apparently, they only offer up C level prospects and Dubi for a big time goal scorer
I think if Brassard was the center, the other piece(s) have to improve to balance it out. So, it is possible you could swap Johansen for Brassard, but I can't see it as Brassard and Moore.

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #61
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Flyers interloper here...

I'd be interested in seeing what else Anaheim would ask for above Johansen. At least some reports suggested that they wanted Voracek + Schenn from the Flyers--so I'm not sure tagging Mason on (who the Ducks don't need and likely wouldn't want) would get the job done.

Apparently, they are looking for both a 2C and a top-six winger.
What do they have for a #2 goalie?

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07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #62
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I cant see him doing so. He's good friends with JJ and would probably like the opportunity to be a star here. I'm sure he knows a lot of USA players here. Cam JJ Pavelski if we get him. RJ too probably. Wiz also..
TEAM AMERICA! **** yeah!

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07-02-2012, 08:20 PM
  #63
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What do they have for a #2 goalie?
The former Edmonton kid, Drouin-Deslauriers, assuming Ellis doesn't come back.

Anaheim is a cap team, that's why I imagine they would pass on Mason.

And to the posters above, I don't know if Anaheim would do Brassard, Moore, and LA's 2013 1st--but I think it is very good value compared to previous deals.

I don't know. Some of their fans are a little.... optimistic... about the return. One demanded JVR + Voracek + Mezsaros + our 2012 1st, at which point, our HF negotiations fell apart.

I just know that a few of them were skeptical about rumors around Zibanejad from Ottawa because he was relatively unproven--so I imagine they would have the same sort of concerns about Johansen.

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07-02-2012, 08:23 PM
  #64
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The former Edmonton kid, Drouin-Deslauriers, assuming Ellis doesn't come back.

Anaheim is a cap team, that's why I imagine they would pass on Mason.

And to the posters above, I don't know if Anaheim would do Brassard, Moore, and LA's 2013 1st--but I think it is very good value compared to previous deals.

I don't know. Some of their fans are a little.... optimistic... about the return. One demanded JVR + Voracek + Mezsaros + our 2012 1st, at which point, our HF negotiations fell apart.

I just know that a few of them were skeptical about rumors around Zibanejad from Ottawa because he was relatively unproven--so I imagine they would have the same sort of concerns about Johansen.
I didn't think they had much. I'd be just as happy to banish Mason to Springfield for the year anyway.

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07-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #65
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I think if Brassard was the center, the other piece(s) have to improve to balance it out. So, it is possible you could swap Johansen for Brassard, but I can't see it as Brassard and Moore.
Capn: I don't always agree with you but I want your opinion:

Cap hit aside (say for a team that has no cap concerns): Age can be considered here

Is Nash more attractive aquisition than Bobby Ryan? If the answer is yes, how much more?

Cause it seems we would want a lot more if we were offered Johannsen and Moore for Nash?

I still consider these players more prospect than proven young player....

Is Howson unreasonable in his demands? Not talking Larry Brooks lies here....

THought

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07-02-2012, 08:54 PM
  #66
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Sabres would be a great trade partner.

They have an owner who wants to win NOW and are willing to take on a big contract since now they are a cap team.

They just drafted two highly rater prospects in the first round and have plenty of good, young roster players that are forwards.

Cody Hodgson, Marcus Foligno, Tyler Ennis, Luke Adam...

if they put together a good offer, hoping Howson either leverages that into a Rangers deal or tells Nash it's Buffalo or nowhere. I doubt Carolina includes Skinner or SJ Cotoure and they don't have any other young forwards to offer

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07-02-2012, 09:00 PM
  #67
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Sabres would be a great trade partner.

They have an owner who wants to win NOW and are willing to take on a big contract since now they are a cap team.

They just drafted two highly rater prospects in the first round and have plenty of good, young roster players that are forwards.

Cody Hodgson, Marcus Foligno, Tyler Ennis, Luke Adam...

if they put together a good offer, hoping Howson either leverages that into a Rangers deal or tells Nash it's Buffalo or nowhere. I doubt Carolina includes Skinner or SJ Cotoure and they don't have any other young forwards to offer
So we'd replace the Russell brothers with the Foligno brothers? It seems to be all the rage in the NHL these days!

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07-02-2012, 09:00 PM
  #68
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Sabres would be a great trade partner.

They have an owner who wants to win NOW and are willing to take on a big contract since now they are a cap team.

They just drafted two highly rater prospects in the first round and have plenty of good, young roster players that are forwards.

Cody Hodgson, Marcus Foligno, Tyler Ennis, Luke Adam...
if they put together a good offer, hoping Howson either leverages that into a Rangers deal or tells Nash it's Buffalo or nowhere. I doubt Carolina includes Skinner or SJ Cotoure and they don't have any other young forwards to offer
Foligno was ripping it up with Buf I believe so not sure if they would want to trade him just yet. It would make sense to ask for him though, now that we have Nick. Also, even though we acquired Bobrovsky, you can still add Enroth to the list as well. Having a 1 - 2 punch of Bobrovsky/Enroth could be great in a couple of years.

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07-02-2012, 09:05 PM
  #69
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Foligno was ripping it up with Buf I believe so not sure if they would want to trade him just yet. It would make sense to ask for him though, now that we have Nick. Also, even though we acquired Bobrovsky, you can still add Enroth to the list as well. Having a 1 - 2 punch of Bobrovsky/Enroth could be great in a couple of years.
That's the thing - Buffalo I doubt wants to give up Marcus, just like Flyers don't want to give up Schenn, Rangers don't want to give up Kreider, etc.

However, Pegula wants a cup and they want to contend this year and next year. Especially with Ryan Miller now in his early 30's I feel like they want to make a splash, and they just drafted Grigorenko so they might be more willing to give up a young forward

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07-02-2012, 09:09 PM
  #70
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Capn: I don't always agree with you but I want your opinion:

Cap hit aside (say for a team that has no cap concerns): Age can be considered here

Is Nash more attractive aquisition than Bobby Ryan? If the answer is yes, how much more?
If you don't factor in cap hit, yes, right now Nash is the more attractive player. He's the more complete and polished player. If you are trying to win the Cup this year, you take Nash over Ryan and the reason is Nash's penalty killing ability.

Ryan arguably has more upside as Nash is a known commodity. But, for a team like the NYR, they'd take Nash if cap hit wasn't relevant.

Quote:
Cause it seems we would want a lot more if we were offered Johannsen and Moore for Nash?

I still consider these players more prospect than proven young player....
Depends on what Murray's thought is, and I'm not sure what his thought is and his recent moves really have me scratching my head. Why acquire an aging Souray, for example, after trading Visnovsky if the point is to get younger. Is Murray trying to win this year or build for the future? His moves really provide no clue. There's something else you have to keep in mind and here the cap and budget are relevant--Murray has both Getzlaf and Perry's contracts expiring next summer. If he wants to keep him, it may cost him a total cap hit around $15 million, which is about $5 million above what he's paying right now. So, a young player with a reasonable cap hit on an entry level deal becomes a valuable commodity.

So, again, it really depends on Murray's angle.

Quote:
Is Howson unreasonable in his demands? Not talking Larry Brooks lies here....

THought
If he's asking for Logan Couture as a must in a deal with San Jose, that's the sort of thing that I think is unreasonable. If he's insisting on Stepan or Kreider from the Rangers, that seems less unreasonable because, again, everything else they offer seems to be low tier prospects. So, there are some indications he's been unreasonable in at least one case, but in many other cases we simply don't have a lot of details on what has been offered or demanded.

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07-02-2012, 09:10 PM
  #71
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That's the thing - Buffalo I doubt wants to give up Marcus, just like Flyers don't want to give up Schenn, Rangers don't want to give up Kreider, etc.

However, Pegula wants a cup and they want to contend this year and next year. Especially with Ryan Miller now in his early 30's I feel like they want to make a splash, and they just drafted Grigorenko so they might be more willing to give up a young forward
True....

But I bet they would in a second if Nash actually would agree to go there.

This is a big problem.

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07-02-2012, 09:12 PM
  #72
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If he's asking for Logan Couture as a must in a deal with San Jose, that's the sort of thing that I think is unreasonable. If he's insisting on Stepan or Kreider from the Rangers, that seems less unreasonable because, again, everything else they offer seems to be low tier prospects. So, there are some indications he's been unreasonable in at least one case, but in many other cases we simply don't have a lot of details on what has been offered or demanded.
but what else can you really ask of San Jose? we obviously need a young top 6 guy to build around. Not Jason Demers or Tommy Wingels.

No way San Jose gives him up, that team is just not a good fit at all for a trade. For Nash to insist we send him their is ridiculous

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07-02-2012, 09:13 PM
  #73
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If you don't factor in cap hit, yes, right now Nash is the more attractive player. He's the more complete and polished player. If you are trying to win the Cup this year, you take Nash over Ryan and the reason is Nash's penalty killing ability.

Ryan arguably has more upside as Nash is a known commodity. But, for a team like the NYR, they'd take Nash if cap hit wasn't relevant.



Depends on what Murray's thought is, and I'm not sure what his thought is and his recent moves really have me scratching my head. Why acquire an aging Souray, for example, after trading Visnovsky if the point is to get younger. Is Murray trying to win this year or build for the future? His moves really provide no clue. There's something else you have to keep in mind and here the cap and budget are relevant--Murray has both Getzlaf and Perry's contracts expiring next summer. If he wants to keep him, it may cost him a total cap hit around $15 million, which is about $5 million above what he's paying right now. So, a young player with a reasonable cap hit on an entry level deal becomes a valuable commodity.

So, again, it really depends on Murray's angle.



If he's asking for Logan Couture as a must in a deal with San Jose, that's the sort of thing that I think is unreasonable. If he's insisting on Stepan or Kreider from the Rangers, that seems less unreasonable because, again, everything else they offer seems to be low tier prospects. So, there are some indications he's been unreasonable in at least one case, but in many other cases we simply don't have a lot of details on what has been offered or demanded.

Good stuff...Thanks.

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07-02-2012, 09:26 PM
  #74
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Depends on what Murray's thought is, and I'm not sure what his thought is and his recent moves really have me scratching my head. Why acquire an aging Souray, for example, after trading Visnovsky if the point is to get younger. Is Murray trying to win this year or build for the future? His moves really provide no clue. There's something else you have to keep in mind and here the cap and budget are relevant--Murray has both Getzlaf and Perry's contracts expiring next summer. If he wants to keep him, it may cost him a total cap hit around $15 million, which is about $5 million above what he's paying right now. So, a young player with a reasonable cap hit on an entry level deal becomes a valuable commodity.

So, again, it really depends on Murray's angle.

You don't have to either be in rebuild, or just "win now" mode

...Ducks have Getzlaf, Perry, Hiller, Fowler, Koivu, Teemu, so they have enough solid pieces there to make a run now. They were one of the hottest teams in the league down the stretch.

But he also knows he needs to replace Teemu and Koivu with younger guys to put behind Getzlaf Perry to be in contention long term

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07-02-2012, 09:27 PM
  #75
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but what else can you really ask of San Jose? we obviously need a young top 6 guy to build around. Not Jason Demers or Tommy Wingels.

No way San Jose gives him up, that team is just not a good fit at all for a trade. For Nash to insist we send him their is ridiculous
Again, they are allegedly offering Pavelski, which I think is fair. Is he as young? No. But neither him nor Nash are headed to the old folks home either.

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