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Free Agent Frenzy 2012 - ALL NON-RANGER UFA TALK AND SIGNINGS HERE! (PART IV)

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07-02-2012, 07:53 PM
  #101
UAGoalieGuy
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That's what we call creative accounting. In your scenario, your trading Dubinsky, Hagelin, and MDZ plus a prospect. You still have to address the holes created be dealing Hagelin (third line LW that has some offense) and a puck moving Dman that can play the PP(To replace MDZ). That's going to cost more then $3.6 million + the cap space gained be including them in a trade (around $5.5 million). Plus the Rangers have to add another two dmen on top on that. May be Erixon can fill one of those holes of the three.

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07-02-2012, 07:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Wouldn't Nash replace Dubinsky?
The point is you have to put more money into the roster, so its not like youre really getting Nash for "just 4M dollars more"

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07-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #103
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It's a shame the diva Zack Paris Hilton couldn't just tell us where he was going to sign.

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07-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #104
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My bottom line in terms of players to include in a Nash trade... Del Zotto, Dubinsky, Thomas, next year's 1st. Any other asset going to Columbus, to me, is too much.

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07-02-2012, 07:59 PM
  #105
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Dubi should be the only roster piece going back for Nash. Look at the Richards/Carter deals. Richards, Bordson brought back Simmonds/Schenn/2nd.

Both Richards and Nash were/are captains when traded.

I'd say Dubi/Simmonds are pretty equal. Yes, Simmonds had a career year, but he played on a much more offensively driven Flyers team. Dubi had a down year, but Howson is willing to take him because he thinks he'll rebound to his average...not 54 points, but average.

Schenn? We don't have anyone in our prospect pool as good as Schenn. He was the top prospect a year ago. Just had sime bad luck with injuries this year. And I'm not willing to give up Kreider. So CBJ should settle for Erixon. He's a pretty safe bet to make it to the NHL.

To offset that, we offer a 1st instead of a 2nd.

We take 3.6 mil in cap space. (-4.2+7.8)

People saying things like "Dubi, MDZ, Erixon, Miller, 1st or GTFO" (not on this thread, but I've seen it here before) need to look at past deals for star players and see what they really got.

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07-02-2012, 07:59 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The point is you have to put more money into the roster, so its not like youre really getting Nash for "just 4M dollars more"
Not really...I many whatever else you send with Dubinsky takes money off the cap too.

So if it's Dubi (4 mil), MDZ (Say 2 mil) and a prospect then you bring up Erixon to replace MDZ (about a 2 mil hit) and get Nash for four million dollars more.


Let me guess....you are one of those guys that swears Sather didn't basically trade Gomez for Gaborik...

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07-02-2012, 08:00 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
That's what we call creative accounting. In your scenario, your trading Dubinsky, Hagelin, and MDZ plus a prospect. You still have to address the holes created be dealing Hagelin (third line LW that has some offense) and a puck moving Dman that can play the PP(To replace MDZ). That's going to cost more then $3.6 million + the cap space gained be including them in a trade (around $5.5 million). Plus the Rangers have to add another two dmen on top on that. May be Erixon can fill one of those holes of the three.
This is 100% correct. If MDZ is part of the trade how do you replace him? You would have to sign Carle for the 4-5 million a year he's going to get. Erixon cannot be relied on to replace MDZ's 20 minutes a game.

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07-02-2012, 08:00 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
That's what we call creative accounting. In your scenario, your trading Dubinsky, Hagelin, and MDZ plus a prospect. You still have to address the holes created be dealing Hagelin (third line LW that has some offense) and a puck moving Dman that can play the PP(To replace MDZ). That's going to cost more then $3.6 million + the cap space gained be including them in a trade (around $5.5 million). Plus the Rangers have to add another two dmen on top on that. May be Erixon can fill one of those holes of the three.
It works both ways, del Zotto's and hagelin's contracts also go back to Columbus. which are not much NOW, but Del Zotto is going to get a hefty raise, and Hagelin will make decent money in the future, that money could be used to replace them. So in the end it almost all washes out depending on the players we were to sign to replace them.

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07-02-2012, 08:04 PM
  #109
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Derek Stepan or no Ryan or Nash! Time to get real....

I like Stepan BUT is is a good player not a great player.

Derek is a good player. He will score between 15 & 20 goals a year. He is a team player. He kills penalties & takes a regular shift. He is in my opinion a 2nd/3rd line player.

He is a center but has trouble winning face-offs BUT has excellent vision on the ice. Problem he skates with his head down - he will be a target and that scares me.

I am one Ranger fan that knows we need scoring. Bobby Ryan & Rick Nash are available! We need to trade for either one of these guys before we get shut out!!!

My vote is to trade Stepan if he the missing piece to land Ryan or Nash!!

He should not be an untouchable, :shake head, he is a good small player but will never be a 40 goal scorer! We have a really good team - lets make us a team with a real chance to WIN!!

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07-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  #110
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I'm actually not a Stepan lover but you know what the kid just gets the job done, he's real smart and has had 2 very good yrs off the bat.

I would not trade him because he's part of the teams identity. I like the fact they just got first in the East yet they are so young. The team is growing together and there are some talented players coming.

I dont want to mess that up based on a big ticket player we assume will fit in

lets just find a smaller deal and not mess with the kids like Stepan

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07-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  #111
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Yup, trade stepan. Boyle can take his place.

Seriously, we just don't have the center depth.

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07-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  #112
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The question is are we a better team with Nash and 2 replacements or Dubinsky, Del Zotto, and Hagelin.. That's what Sather would have to decide.

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07-02-2012, 08:08 PM
  #113
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Yes it's true Nash has several things Stepan doesnt, namely 6 more years of age, an albatross of a contract and an RW next to his name.

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #114
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No Way... Steps stays

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The question is are we a better team with Nash and 2 replacements or Dubinsky, Del Zotto, and Hagelin.. That's what Sather would have to decide.
I think we might be better off keeping our guys...which is why Sather won't give that much up in a trade

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The question is are we a better team with Nash and 2 replacements or Dubinsky, Del Zotto, and Hagelin.. That's what Sather would have to decide.
We are better keeping Del Zotto cause he's the only true offensive Dman they have. Hagelin had a great rookie yr and is blazing fast and as much as Dubi is crapped on for last yr he is an original Ranger and has heart.

I am fine with making a trade but lets stop looking at Nash and Ryan. Think smaller .........again the Ott for Roy deal is a perfect example of being able to make a deal for an asset. I want Ryan Clowe and I think its realistic

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Not really...I many whatever else you send with Dubinsky takes money off the cap too.

So if it's Dubi (4 mil), MDZ (Say 2 mil) and a prospect then you bring up Erixon to replace MDZ (about a 2 mil hit) and get Nash for four million dollars more.


Let me guess....you are one of those guys that swears Sather didn't basically trade Gomez for Gaborik...
The situations have hardly anything to do with one another. More importantly, it doesnt change your creative accounting and failure to assign proper value to specific players in this transaction.

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07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #118
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Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

#NHL news. Hearing soon to be former #Flames Olli Jokinen and Winnipeg #Jets closing in on a multi year deal.

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07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #119
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Stepan on an ELC is more valuable to the Rangers than Nash at 7.8

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07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
  #120
UAGoalieGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
It works both ways, del Zotto's and hagelin's contracts also go back to Columbus. which are not much NOW, but Del Zotto is going to get a hefty raise, and Hagelin will make decent money in the future, that money could be used to replace them. So in the end it almost all washes out depending on the players we were to sign to replace them.
Please don't ever become an accountant. This type of thinking is one of the few reasons why we had the finacial collapse. You have to pay whoever replaces them this year and the years moving foward. You are still going to have to give large raises to McD, Stepan, Kreider, and possibly Anisimov. I think Staal is a UFA in two summers too. Same with Girardi.

No one knows what's going to happen with the cap, too. It might be lower then it was this past season.

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07-02-2012, 08:11 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Svenhart2008 View Post
Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

#NHL news. Hearing soon to be former #Flames Olli Jokinen and Winnipeg #Jets closing in on a multi year deal.
For some reason I find Jokinen and Antropov on the same team interesting. Hey good for them they need some more offense

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:13 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The situations have hardly anything to do with one another. More importantly, it doesnt change your creative accounting and failure to assign proper value to specific players in this transaction.
How am I not assigning proper value...Dubi makes 4.2 a year....MDZ should get about 2 mil on his second contract and Erixon has a cap hit of 1.785 million or so.

I never said we should do it...all I'm saying is that for a couple of years Nash would technically be replacing Dubinsky for about 3-4 mil more.

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Old
07-02-2012, 08:13 PM
  #123
Svenhart2008
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

2 year deal, $9mil for Jokinen in Wpg. $4.5 aav

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07-02-2012, 08:16 PM
  #124
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If Ryan was the return I would trade Stepan depending on what else it would take to complete the deal. 1st and Erixon. Maybe Steps/Mdz

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07-02-2012, 08:16 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
For some reason I find Jokinen and Antropov on the same team interesting. Hey good for them they need some more offense
We tried them separately....maybe having them at the same time is the key!

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