I think Rangers will start next season with the current roter. Which may be better than dismantling the whole team in order to get Nash or Ryan in here. Maybe we should sign Semin and give a chance to the youngsters in our farm system to get tothe next level? What you think?
Once again, I am seeing trade proposals that do more harm than good. There is absolutely no reason to include THREE roster players in a trade for Nash. Even two is pushing it. Why in the world would the Rangers include more roster players than what Howson is asking for?! It was reported before the draft that Howson was looking for 4 pieces, with only two of them being roster players.
We don't have the depth to overcome a 3-for-1 trade for a variety of reasons... it's tough to replace these players, especially with this free agent market, and the replacements in all likelihood will cost more than the players that are being traded away.
McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Del Zotto Eminger
Bickel
How exactly is today a wasted day? Are you upset we missed out in the likes of Marty, Hudler, Smaby, or Jokinen? Everyone is sitting still until Parise and Suter make up their minds. Have some patience.
As for your proposals. I would not want Feds back. Love him, but he's done. I would be interested in Pyatt, but only as a 4th line option. I'm pretty sure that Stralman will be going back to Sweden, so that is probably a moot point. I'd be happy to have him back, but it's doubtful.
Get me a scorer (be it trade or signing one), sign a guy like Mueller to play on the 3rd line, bring in a 4th liner like Pyatt if you want, and get me a RHD (be it trade or sign). We have 3 months. Stop acting like we are "wasting" each day buy not handing out ridiculous contracts in a crappy market.
No one takes into account the fact that with Dubinsky going the other way (at 3M), Nash would only add about a little over 4M to the payroll over the next 3 years, and thats not even counting what else went the other way. Nash at 4M (added to the cap for the next 3 years) is a steal IMO. Don't just think about his cap hit, think about how much would be added to the payroll with the other assets going back, and its not very much.
as I replied in another post, the money is secondary. I think there is too much talent going the other way for Nash. I think the team is better off using those players to go after someone like Ryan.
as I replied in another post, the money is secondary. I think there is too much talent going the other way for Nash. I think the team is better off using those players to go after someone like Ryan.
Kinda contradicting... So to much is okay for Ryan, but to much isn't okay for Nash, or am I confused?
One of the things I think Bleed Ranger Blue is getting at when he talks about assigning proper value is not separating the player from his contract. Just because Rick Nash is making $7.8 mil per year for the next 6 years doesn't mean he's worth his contract. If he were valued according I think $5.5 mil per year would be a lot closer to his worth at least for the next 3-4 years. After that it would likely be less. The team that trades for Nash though is going to get the whole shebang--whatever good and all the bad. Rangers fans should be leery of these big splash signings and trades. We have a long history of them not working out to expectations and I'm afraid that Nash's recent history doesn't give me confidence that all he needs is a change of scenery to go back to his pre-25 days. Red Flags as far as I can tell.
And we've been staying the course--doing things the right way for quite a while now. Still the temptation is there to make the big splash at the expense of staying the course. I don't know how many of you actually sat through the 1997-98 season right through the lockout. Maybe you don't what it's like to have an all star team on paper embarrassing its fans year after year--everyone's hopes up before every season because of all the 'names' and year after year failing to make the playoffs. Deals like this reek of it.
We're not going to score goals! And it's not like McDonagh is not going to get better, Stepan is not going to get better, Hagelin, Kreider. Staal won't be better starting the season healthy. These players are not finished products. Dubinsky had a **** year and it happens. He might just rebound. Before last season lots of folks here wanted to dump Gaborik. The Rangers did not score tons of goals last year--they were about middle of the pack. They played great defense. They won a lot of close games or as Tortorella would say often enough--'we found a way to win.'
I don't want to give up a bunch of youth for him. Columbus has been drafting early for years. They can't put things together because they find ways to mismanage what they have. Nash's contract is a case in point. It's too much and for too long. Sorry but it seems to me they made their bed--their management **** in it--and I'd rather my team not try to sleep in it.
The Rangers still need at least 1 winger and a 3rd or 4th line center. I doubt Haley starts the year in the AHL. Maybe Arnott and Pyatt? Mueller is still available. I wonder if the Rangers like Carle?
Kinda contradicting... So to much is okay for Ryan, but to much isn't okay for Nash, or am I confused?
I may be putting words into his mouth but I think his justification is that Ryan is younger, cheaper, arguably better, and would fit this team better. He seems like more of a fit so he'd be willing to pay more for him. Thats just me speculating however.
This is a bad Ufa group, and few players are available that would help our team. I think everybody sees that and that is why their is such a panic to get Ryan or Nash.
A weak FA market is half of it, but when players like Nash and Ryan are available you have to pursue them. You can draft and develop 40-50p players. We have them on our roster and some in the pipeline.
We can't draft 70p+ players. These are the types of players you need to lead the team offensively. they allow younger players with potential to develop properly, without too much burden on them.
The Rangers still need at least 1 winger and a 3rd or 4th line center. I doubt Haley starts the year in the AHL. Maybe Arnott and Pyatt? Mueller is still available. I wonder if the Rangers like Carle?
The Rangers still need at least 1 winger and a 3rd or 4th line center. I doubt Haley starts the year in the AHL. Maybe Arnott and Pyatt? Mueller is still available. I wonder if the Rangers like Carle?
Carle is going to get 5 mill as a free agent.
I think Naley starts the year in the AHL. They will most likely to after Mueller, and maybe try to have a kid earn a spot.
One of the things I think Bleed Ranger Blue is getting at when he talks about assigning proper value is not separating the player from his contract. Just because Rick Nash is making $7.8 mil per year for the next 6 years doesn't mean he's worth his contract. If he were valued according I think $5.5 mil per year would be a lot closer to his worth at least for the next 3-4 years. After that it would likely be less. The team that trades for Nash though is going to get the whole shebang--whatever good and all the bad. Rangers fans should be leery of these big splash signings and trades. We have a long history of them not working out to expectations and I'm afraid that Nash's recent history doesn't give me confidence that all he needs is a change of scenery to go back to his pre-25 days. Red Flags as far as I can tell.
And we've been staying the course--doing things the right way for quite a while now. Still the temptation is there to make the big splash at the expense of staying the course. I don't know how many of you actually sat through the 1997-98 season right through the lockout. Maybe you don't what it's like to have an all star team on paper embarrassing its fans year after year--everyone's hopes up before every season because of all the 'names' and year after year failing to make the playoffs. Deals like this reek of it.
We're not going to score goals! And it's not like McDonagh is not going to get better, Stepan is not going to get better, Hagelin, Kreider. Staal won't be better starting the season healthy. These players are not finished products. Dubinsky had a **** year and it happens. He might just rebound. Before last season lots of folks here wanted to dump Gaborik. The Rangers did not score tons of goals last year--they were about middle of the pack. They played great defense. They won a lot of close games or as Tortorella would say often enough--'we found a way to win.'
I don't want to give up a bunch of youth for him. Columbus has been drafting early for years. They can't put things together because they find ways to mismanage what they have. Nash's contract is a case in point. It's too much and for too long. Sorry but it seems to me they made their bed--their management **** in it--and I'd rather my team not try to sleep in it.
I have been saying that for a while now in all the Rick Nash threads on the main trade board. Try telling that to CLBJ fans and see how they react.
__________________
I feel like this is such an appropriate quote for these boards...
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"-Mark Twain
How exactly is today a wasted day? Are you upset we missed out in the likes of Marty, Hudler, Smaby, or Jokinen? Everyone is sitting still until Parise and Suter make up their minds. Have some patience.
As for your proposals. I would not want Feds back. Love him, but he's done. I would be interested in Pyatt, but only as a 4th line option. I'm pretty sure that Stralman will be going back to Sweden, so that is probably a moot point. I'd be happy to have him back, but it's doubtful.
Get me a scorer (be it trade or signing one), sign a guy like Mueller to play on the 3rd line, bring in a 4th liner like Pyatt if you want, and get me a RHD (be it trade or sign). We have 3 months. Stop acting like we are "wasting" each day buy not handing out ridiculous contracts in a crappy market.
It was a wasted day because they didn't do anything to address holes.
Like the two on the right side in the top six defense.
Or adding depth to the third and fourth lines.
That does NOT imply bad contracts. I was fully against Hudler. Try a search.
Stralman hasn't signed anywhere.
And Fedotenko can fill a 4th line role. As suggested. He's "done" because YOU say he is? No, he isn't.
Meuller is OK. But there's a reason his production has been crap. He doesn't give a consistent effort. He'd be worth a look. But knowing this coaching staff he may not last.
Last edited by New York RKY: 07-02-2012 at 09:08 PM.
If Dubi has a normal year and Kreider has decent rookie year...this Nash talk will be all forgotten... this team can just add depth and wait it out another year. With good health and the same work ethic this team can still be a cup contender in this current NHL and its parity. I can def see another ECF final visit. The balanced teams will always prevail as LA showed. The Devs had more balance than us.
For the assets and money it would cost to get Nash, I can't believe I am going to say it but.. see if Semin can be had on a 2 year deal. If things don't work out he always has the Russia option so I don't think the length is as important to him as it is to many other NHLers who would N E V E R go to the KHL.
If he can be had for two years (probably be at least 6.5+ million), that would be a hell of a lot better. He can play 2 more years in the NHL with a cup contender and try to win a stanley cup, and then go back home afterwards and earn millions more. IMHO it should be the Rangers priority now over Nash.
The Rangers still need at least 1 winger and a 3rd or 4th line center. I doubt Haley starts the year in the AHL. Maybe Arnott and Pyatt? Mueller is still available. I wonder if the Rangers like Carle?
really they just need a top winger. Thats a big thing to need but they have the Forwards filled out as is. based on talent alone Semin would fit the bill an he is still out there
X, Richards, Gaborik
Kreider, Stepan, Callahan
Hagelin, Dubinsky, Anisimov
Rupp, Boyle, Asham
Haley or Wellman as cheap spare
Miller,Thomas,Yogan, Bourque, Newbury, Hrvik in CT
I'm actually not a Stepan lover but you know what the kid just gets the job done, he's real smart and has had 2 very good yrs off the bat.
I would not trade him because he's part of the teams identity. I like the fact they just got first in the East yet they are so young. The team is growing together and there are some talented players coming.
I dont want to mess that up based on a big ticket player we assume will fit in
lets just find a smaller deal and not mess with the kids like Stepan
agree. the more I read, the more I think that maybe they should take a flyer on Semin. I really don't think they should trade that many assets for Nash. Ryan maybe. But with Semin they would lose no one.
McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Del Zotto Eminger
Bickel
Like those lines, think the first or second line would benefit more with Cally on it to play down low and wreak havoc in front of the net opening up the slot for Nash..who for some reason I thought played LW..oops
agree. the more I read, the more I think that maybe they should take a flyer on Semin. I really don't think they should trade that many assets for Nash. Ryan maybe. But with Semin they would lose no one.
Couldn't agree more and as I said in an earlier post, because he will always have the KHL option length will not be as important to him as money.
It was a wasted day because they didn't do anything to address holes.
Like the two on the right side in the top six defense.
Or adding depth to the third and fourth lines.
That does NOT imply bad contracts. I was fully against Hudler. Try a search.
Stralman hasn't signed anywhere.
And Fedotenko can fill a 4th line role. As suggested. He's "done" because YOU say he is? No, he isn't.
Meuller is OK. But there's a reason his production has been crap. He doesn't give a consistent effort. He'd be worth a look. But knowing this coaching staff he may not last.
You said it was a wasted day. Unless you were keen on signing players to absurd contracts, like the ones being handed out (Hulder, etc), how was it a wasted day?
Again, I never said you were for Hudler. As I said, unless you were for signing Hudler/Jokinen/etc, how was it a wasted day? Perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension before calling out others.
As for Fedetenko, he is clearly slowing down. Did you watch him this year? Give his spot to a kid, or Taylor Pyatt for that matter, he'd be a better option for the 4th line (although I'll admit, I'll take Feds over Asham/Rupp as an every day player).
I'll say again. Have some patience. Rome wasn't built overnight.
McDonagh Girardi
Staal Stralman
Del Zotto Eminger
Bickel
That right side is just plain ugly. There's no way I want to go into next season with Stralman and Eminger slotted into the starting lineup. They need to find somebody to fill that hole.
I've gotta say, I'd trade Del Zotto for Nash a lot more readily than Erixon. Erixon's way smarter and has a better natural defensive game. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be the better powerplay quarterback either. Plus, dealing Del Zotto might let us keep JT Miller out of a potential Nash trade. I'd rather give up Del Zotto, Dubinsky, and a 1st than Erixon, Miller, Dubinsky, and a 1st.
If Dubi has a normal year and Kreider has decent rookie year...this Nash talk will be all forgotten... this team can just add depth and wait it out another year. With good health and the same work ethic this team can still be a cup contender in this current NHL and its parity. I can def see another ECF final visit. The balanced teams will always prevail as LA showed. The Devs had more balance than us.
#therightway>>>depleting the core
I agree.
Though, Kreider hasn't had his rookie season yet. But that's being nitpicky.
I agree.
We need to focus tomorrow on adding depth to the roster so we can play next season.
I would really like to add Pyatt tomorrow. Add speed and some skill to the bottom line.
And bring Fedotenko back. If his minutes and his role is more protected he can remain effective.
Adding a top six winger isn't going to be easy and there's no sense in handing Semin a contract knowing he won't fit.
And we need to add at least two RHD.
Gorton and Sather won't allow a youth exodus for Nash.
Solidify the depth tomorrow. Be productive.
And after that, there's time to focus on Nash if need be.
Meuller is OK. But there's a reason his production has been crap. He doesn't give a consistent effort. He'd be worth a look. But knowing this coaching staff he may not last.
I wouldn't call Mueller's production crap if you're expecting him to be a 3rd liner. 35-45 points is right in his wheelhouse, once you get beyond his first year.
That's not to say I'm fully on board with the idea of going after him. The risk with Mueller is his health, since he missed a full season 2 years ago and most of last season. At this point though, with the reasonable options dwindling, I would be okay with taking a flier on him.
