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Free Agent Frenzy 2012 - ALL NON-RANGER UFA TALK AND SIGNINGS HERE! (PART IV)

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07-02-2012, 09:11 PM
  #176
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
A weak FA market is half of it, but when players like Nash and Ryan are available you have to pursue them. You can draft and develop 40-50p players. We have them on our roster and some in the pipeline.

We can't draft 70p+ players. These are the types of players you need to lead the team offensively. they allow younger players with potential to develop properly, without too much burden on them.
Oh really? Why? Because we don't have top 5 picks? This team has done a phenomenal job with drafting over the past few years. If they can pull a Vezina winner from the 7th round, and their captain who scored 29 goals last year from the 4th round, and a 51 point sophomore center from the 2nd round, and a 20 goal scoring winger/center from the 2nd round (who has already hit the 50 point mark), why is it that out of the question? Edit* (this isn't even considering that Cherepanov had 70 point potential easy, Im not making excuses or harping on the past, Im just trying to say its another quality producer we drafted).

Stepan could very well develop into a... dare I say it 70 point center in his prime? We don't know for sure what we have in Kreider yet except loads of potential. No one knows if this kid develops into a 15-20 guy, a 20-20 guy or a 30-30 guy...

Sorry, I think your a good poster but... man that is an asinine statement to make.

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07-02-2012, 09:11 PM
  #177
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Any rumors on us trading for Keith Yandle?

I can believe it. He's a very good top 4 D-man that can pot 40-50 points and most importantly, is right-handed.

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07-02-2012, 09:12 PM
  #178
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1) If the Deal for Nash could be done for : Dubi, Hagelin, a #1 for 2013 and a 2 for 2014 should the Rangers make the trade?

2)Are they overpaying?

3)If they can get Ryan for Dubi, MDZ, Miller, and a number 1 (2013) and a 2014 # 2 should the deal be made?

4)Are they overpaying?

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07-02-2012, 09:13 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Any rumors on us trading for Keith Yandle?

I can believe it. He's a very good top 4 D-man that can pot 40-50 points and most importantly, is right-handed.
he shoots Left but can play RD as well
http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471735

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07-02-2012, 09:14 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
1) If the Deal for Nash could be done for : Dubi, Hagelin, a #1 for 2013 and a 2 for 2014 should the Rangers make the trade?

2)Are they overpaying?

3)If they can get Ryan for Dubi, MDZ, Miller, and a number 1 (2013) and a 2014 # 2 should the deal be made?

4)Are they overpaying?
If MDZ goes they have to go after a guy like Carle, even for the 4.5-5 he will command. Your defense is your strength and you cannot allow a huge hole in the top 4 that trading DZ would create.

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07-02-2012, 09:15 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
1) If the Deal for Nash could be done for : Dubi, Hagelin, a #1 for 2013 and a 2 for 2014 should the Rangers make the trade?

2)Are they overpaying?

3)If they can get Ryan for Dubi, MDZ, Miller, and a number 1 (2013) should the deal be made?

4)Are they overpaying?
1) I don't know I'd that's enough to get Nash the way Howson has been going. But if he does accept it then you absolutely do it.

2) they're definitely not overpaying.

3) it appears the only way we get Ryan right now is if Stepan goes the other way so that deal wouldn't get it done. If that deal gets it done you do it 15000000 times out of 10.

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07-02-2012, 09:15 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
A weak FA market is half of it, but when players like Nash and Ryan are available you have to pursue them. You can draft and develop 40-50p players. We have them on our roster and some in the pipeline.

We can't draft 70p+ players. These are the types of players you need to lead the team offensively. they allow younger players with potential to develop properly, without too much burden on them.
This makes sense, but every year there are opportunities to pick up a 30 goal player either via trade or via free agency. We just need to be patient and we can find a way to keep our assets and add a 30 goal scorer.

It doesn't have to happen this offseason, we can wait for the right deal or player to come along. Nash is just the best available player right now, we may regret forcing a trade this year

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07-02-2012, 09:15 PM
  #183
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That right side is just plain ugly. There's no way I want to go into next season with Stralman and Eminger slotted into the starting lineup. They need to find somebody to fill that hole.

I've gotta say, I'd trade Del Zotto for Nash a lot more readily than Erixon. Erixon's way smarter and has a better natural defensive game. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be the better powerplay quarterback either. Plus, dealing Del Zotto might let us keep JT Miller out of a potential Nash trade. I'd rather give up Del Zotto, Dubinsky, and a 1st than Erixon, Miller, Dubinsky, and a 1st.
That right side got to the conference final.

Unless you see other options that are reasonably priced to fill the right side.

How many right-handed defensemen are available that are worth what they'll get?

Slats can spend 6 months fetching after Nash but can't spend a day talking to Stralman to see if he can convince him and his family to stick around?

Stralman has an opportunity to play top four minutes on a good NHL team.

He was fine, no reason he can't be fine again.

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07-02-2012, 09:17 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
I may be putting words into his mouth but I think his justification is that Ryan is younger, cheaper, arguably better, and would fit this team better. He seems like more of a fit so he'd be willing to pay more for him. Thats just me speculating however.
Nash is 28, Ryan 25 - Not much of a gap..

Both have almost identical numbers at their respective stages at this point in their career. The one HUGE difference, Nash has done it surrounded by mediocrity going up against top pairing defensemen, while Ryan has benefited from the talent around him, and isn't usually matched up against a #1 pairing. Don't get me wrong, Ryan is talented..

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07-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Any rumors on us trading for Keith Yandle?

I can believe it. He's a very good top 4 D-man that can pot 40-50 points and most importantly, is right-handed.
Most of the depth charts I've seen have him on the left side, except on the power play, which doesn't matter for our purposes.

Guys gotta get off this lefty-righty thing... what we need is defensemen who play the right side, whichever hand is dominant.

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07-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Any rumors on us trading for Keith Yandle?

I can believe it. He's a very good top 4 D-man that can pot 40-50 points and most importantly, is right-handed.
http://www.snyrangersblog.com/2012/0...h-yandle-game/

Rangers were rumored to be interested, but the price was too steep apparently.

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07-02-2012, 09:19 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Nash is 28, Ryan 25 - Not much of a gap..

Both have almost identical numbers at their respective stages at this point in their career. The one HUGE difference, Nash has done it surrounded by mediocrity going up against top pairing defensemen, while Ryan has benefited from the talent around him, and isn't usually matched up against a #1 pairing. Don't get me wrong, Ryan is talented..
Ryan also isn't signed until the sun explodes like Nash is and carries 2.7 million dollars less of a cap hit.

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07-02-2012, 09:20 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Oh really? Why? Because we don't have top 5 picks? This team has done a phenomenal job with drafting over the past few years. If they can pull a Vezina winner from the 7th round, and their captain who scored 29 goals last year from the 4th round, and a 51 point sophomore center from the 2nd round, and a 20 goal scoring winger/center from the 2nd round (who has already hit the 50 point mark), why is it that out of the question?

Stepan could very well develop into a... dare I say it 70 point center in his prime? We don't know for sure what we have in Kreider yet except loads of potential. No one knows if this kid develops into a 15-20 guy, a 20-20 guy or a 30-30 guy...

Sorry, I think your a good poster but... man that is an asinine statement to make.
I don't think that is fair to say the statement is asinine when technically he is right. Yes, Kreider and Stepan CAN develop into 70 point players but they haven't yet have they? Our drafting has gotten better, but what NikC said is 100% true. Not necessarily that we can't, but that we haven't.

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07-02-2012, 09:21 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Any rumors on us trading for Keith Yandle?

I can believe it. He's a very good top 4 D-man that can pot 40-50 points and most importantly, is right-handed.
Yandle is not right handed. He's also a top 2 defenseman, not a top 4. Yeah, you can trade for him but Phoenix is going to be asking for McDonagh, Stepan or Kreider as centerpieces, just like Columbus. The Coyotes will only move him for an elite offensive talent (preferably a very young one) who has enough character to be a future captain. Before the landscape changed, a trade built around Sean Couturier was a real possibility. That's off the table now.

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07-02-2012, 09:21 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yandle may be right handed, but most of the depth charts I've seen have him on the left side.

Guys gotta get off this lefty-righty thing... what we need is defensemen who play the right side, whichever hand is dominant.
He's left handed. And can play the right side.

But your point stands.

However. The handed-ness and side they play does matter. Unfortunately.

And it absolutely matters to Tortorella.

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07-02-2012, 09:22 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Nash is 28, Ryan 25 - Not much of a gap..

Both have almost identical numbers at their respective stages at this point in their career. The one HUGE difference, Nash has done it surrounded by mediocrity going up against top pairing defensemen, while Ryan has benefited from the talent around him, and isn't usually matched up against a #1 pairing. Don't get me wrong, Ryan is talented..
As I mentioned multiple times, there are 3 major differences between Nash and Ryan

1) the major difference: salary. Nash makes 7.8 million for 6 more which - which is a killer while Ryan makes only 5 million for 3 more years. Major difference in salary.

2) age. Ryan is a whole 3 years younger and you can see he looks younger than Nash who appears to be more sluggish on the ice.

3) while Nash hasn't played with any talented players, Ryan has jumped around lines on Anaheim. More importantly he saw limited powerplay time because he was on the second unit. While you could argue at with talented players Nash is a 40 goal scorer, you could also argue, which I have, that you give Ryan more consistent top line minutes and first powerplay unit time he'd also be a 40 goal scorer.

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07-02-2012, 09:23 PM
  #192
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What does UFA next year look like? Maybe pass on all these guys. Try to sign Selanne to a 1 year deal, assimilate Krieder, see what we got?

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07-02-2012, 09:23 PM
  #193
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Come on, you don't know that Sather isn't talking to Strahlman. Just because he hasn't made a signing (other than the fringe moves on the first day) doesn't mean he's sitting around waiting for Parise and Suter to decide. We have his rights, what's the rush assuming there isn't a dialogue. Maybe the fallout from Suter will make some RD's available. Who knows

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07-02-2012, 09:24 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
I don't think that is fair to say the statement is asinine when technically he is right. Yes, Kreider and Stepan CAN develop into 70 point players but they haven't yet have they? Our drafting has gotten better, but what NikC said is 100% true.
Stepan is well on his way. He has only gotten better since he came into the league and is only what 21? 22 years old?

Saying we can't draft 70 point players and the players we drafted haven't developed into that YET are two completely different things. Next season is a brand new year.

If he meant (which he didn't say) that we can't draft 70 point players while this teams window is open, than I would agree. But we have some players with that potential. One who is damn close and one who will make a case for himself this season.

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07-02-2012, 09:25 PM
  #195
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Ryan also isn't signed until the sun explodes like Nash is and carries 2.7 million dollars less of a cap hit.
Agreed, you'd also be looking at losing Ryan in a couple seasons after moving all that talent we were discussing. If not, then you'd probably be looking at signing him to a contract that is as expensive and expires when the sun explodes..

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07-02-2012, 09:27 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Slats can spend 6 months fetching after Nash but can't spend a day talking to Stralman to see if he can convince him and his family to stick around?


You really think Sather can't do two things at once? It's not like he's spending every hour of the business day on the phone with Scott Howson.

If Stralman hasn't signed yet, it isn't because Sather hasn't talked to him. If other more significant moves than Asham haven't happened yet, it isn't because Sather hasn't made offers to other free agents. Enough of this wasted day ********.

I'm going to repeat something I said last night.

It's almost July 3rd. San Jose, Los Angeles, Detroit (except for Samuelsson), Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and the Rangers have yet to make moves of any significance and the FA class is STILL weak. Too much worrying about what did or did not happen today for what the reality is.

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07-02-2012, 09:27 PM
  #197
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Agreed, you'd also be looking at losing Ryan in a couple seasons after moving all that talent we were discussing. If not, then you'd probably be looking at signing him to a contract that is as expensive and expires when the sun explodes..
Okay in all seriousness... Well played sir. I concede.

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07-02-2012, 09:28 PM
  #198
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Agreed, you'd also be looking at losing Ryan in a couple seasons after moving all that talent we were discussing. If not, then you'd probably be looking at signing him to a contract that is as expensive and expires when the sun explodes..
Difference is that when Ryan is ready for a contract extension McD, Cally, Hank, Stepan, Kreider will all be resigned and well have a better idea of our cap space. With Nash it's a risk.

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07-02-2012, 09:30 PM
  #199
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Stepan is well on his way. He has only gotten better since he came into the league and is only what 21? 22 years old?

Saying we can't draft 70 point players and the players we drafted haven't developed into that YET are two completely different things. Next season is a brand new year.

If he meant (which he didn't say) that we can't draft 70 point players while this teams window is open, than I would agree. But we have some players with that potential. One who is damn close and one who will make a case for himself this season.
Well, I don't know, I'm confused. But what I meant was that up until Kreider/Stepan we haven't been able to- I firmly believe though that those two guys will hit 70.

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07-02-2012, 09:31 PM
  #200
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Also, and I'm making no comparisons here in terms of what I hope happens.

But Frolov signed on July 27, Kotalik signed on July 9, Prospal signed on August 16. For what we're looking for (relatively cheap middle 6 player), there are usually guys available beyond July 1 and 2.

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