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Give Gomez one last chance?

View Poll Results: Give Gomez One Last Chance?
Yes 86 31.62%
No 186 68.38%
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Old
07-02-2012, 10:54 PM
  #51
Coldplay
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I'd be down only if we can't make any other moves to improve the team. Cap space doesn't win you games. If his cap space can be put to really good use, then bury him.

If not, then there's no reason to dump him. Unless he takes up Eller's playing time, but MT isn't dumb.

I actually think a guy like MT can bring the best back out of Gomer.

But, that may just be me. As usual.

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07-02-2012, 10:56 PM
  #52
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Again...that PPG number as a center is his first 43 games getting any real minutes in the NHL. He was also getting much lower minutes with worse linemates than he did last season.

You're not answering either question.

1) Why can't Desharnais use his vision on the wing
2) Who are comparable guys to Desharnais that have set a precedent that this is a true and viable option?

And again, not saying Desharnais can't have a great impact in the NHL, I just don't see him as a top 6 center though. 3rd line center with some skilled size wingers, or top 6 winger...but just not top 6 center.
The guy had 35 points in last 40 GP. Now, before we argue the premise of whether shifting him to the wing is a viable option for a guy you percieve as a 3rd line center...we should probably analyze how many points your 3rd line centers make in half a year.

You're asking me why can't he be put on the wing, I ask you, how has he not shown top 6 upside by scoring 20th most center points and getting better as year progressed(Aka the 35 points in last 40 GP).


For the hell of it:

1) I never said he couldn't, I said he'd be more effective as a playmaking center. Stats, even if rookie vs sophomore, suggest more that this is true than false. There is little to suggest otherwise, whether or not it's true. Also, Desharnais is not a fast guy who is a strong board player. He tries, but I don't see how he'd be an effective winger as he's not as fast as others his size nor is he much of a goal scorer like St louis/Briere.

2) I don't even know what you're asking for.

You also said:

Quote:
I defy you to find me one top 6 minute getting centerman in the last 20 years to win a Stanley Cup.
I could find 40? I mean, what's the condition. You're asking me to find 1 centerman who plays top 6 minutes to win a cup in last 20 years. Okay, easy. Are you referring to guys his size? In that case, I defy you to find 1 top 6 centerman the size of DD(in the NHL) that hasn't won a cup. Odds are you won't find any either. The sample size is too small no?

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Old
07-02-2012, 10:56 PM
  #53
Crimson Skorpion
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I said the same thing last year and even though we ended in dead last in the East, we left the draft with Galchenyuk, Collberg and co..

Might as well. If they don't add a top 6 winger, it will be another tough year to get through.

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07-02-2012, 10:57 PM
  #54
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I'd be down only if we can't make any other moves to improve the team. Cap space doesn't win you games. If his cap space can be put to really good use, then bury him.

If not, then there's no reason to dump him. Unless he takes up Eller's playing time, but MT isn't dumb.

I actually think a guy like MT can bring the best back out of Gomer.

But, that may just be me. As usual.
Essentially this. Unless we replace him, what's the harm?

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:00 PM
  #55
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How can someone on their right mind can think a second he could found back his form... Even if he would produce 25 pts ( i am being sooo generous here ) idont need his liability he doesnt back check he doesnt have vision anymore thank God he has some speed left he has nothing else left. this guy as lost it, like 99.9%

Its been 3 years for his pathetic expensive show... At this point i rather watch the kardashian reality show... Sorry gomer ur a goner.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:01 PM
  #56
Coldplay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Essentially this. Unless we replace him, what's the harm?
Harm is that he becomes a distraction because the fans get back on his back. Only downside I can see, other than the aforementioned.

And most posters here won't admit it, but it was tough for him to get going last year because of the injury after injury he suffered. That's not an excuse for his subpar play, but it didn't help his cause.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:02 PM
  #57
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The way I see it is that unless we are near the cap limit, we will not send him to Hamilton/Europe until after training camp/preseason is over. There is no point in doing that, it would shows no class by a new General Manager in the league and I don't think Marc Bergevin wants to do that to a player that is currently preparing for next season.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:04 PM
  #58
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Harm is that he becomes a distraction because the fans get back on his back. Only downside I can see, other than the aforementioned.

And most posters here won't admit it, but it was tough for him to get going last year because of the injury after injury he suffered. That's not an excuse for his subpar play, but it didn't help his cause.
Well, let's be honest, if Gomez is indeed on the team and habs did not replace him. I'll put it this way, it's okay if Gomez gets ripped because it will distract people from our standing.

I actually think Gomez can at least be a top 9 forward, doesn't justify his salary but still.

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07-02-2012, 11:06 PM
  #59
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if Bergie isn't able to use that 7.4M$ this summer, trade or signings, then Gomez can come to camp and fight to prove he's valuable enough to be on the opening day roster despite the cap hit... but unless he shows he's capable of being elite in a role (be it as a C or a W, on a "scoring" line or a "checking" line), and i mean ELITE, then he needs to be banished to Hamilton and forgotten about until next summer.

no way he should take role or opportunity from a guy like Eller, or force either Eller/DD to the wing, unless he shows himself CLEARLY ahead of them in camp.

hopefully, enough of the offers Bergie has on the go come to fruition, and the team has no choice but to dump Gomez in the minors...

right now, we've got 8.9M$ in cap space left, with Subban, Eller, Diaz, Geoffrion and Palushaj still needing contracts.

so basically if we sign anyone else even remotely talented (i.e 3-4M$+), then Gomez is out.

Hope he's been looking into Hamilton real estate...

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:14 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
The guy had 35 points in last 40 GP. Now, before we argue the premise of whether shifting him to the wing is a viable option for a guy you percieve as a 3rd line center...we should probably analyze how many points your 3rd line centers make in half a year.

You're asking me why can't he be put on the wing, I ask you, how has he not shown top 6 upside by scoring 20th most center points and getting better as year progressed(Aka the 35 points in last 40 GP).


For the hell of it:

1) I never said he couldn't, I said he'd be more effective as a playmaking center. Stats, even if rookie vs sophomore, suggest more that this is true than false. There is little to suggest otherwise, whether or not it's true. Also, Desharnais is not a fast guy who is a strong board player. He tries, but I don't see how he'd be an effective winger as he's not as fast as others his size nor is he much of a goal scorer like St louis/Briere.

2) I don't even know what you're asking for.

You also said:



I could find 40? I mean, what's the condition. You're asking me to find 1 centerman who plays top 6 minutes to win a cup in last 20 years. Okay, easy. Are you referring to guys his size? In that case, I defy you to find 1 top 6 centerman the size of DD(in the NHL) that hasn't won a cup. Odds are you won't find any either. The sample size is too small no?
Lol

A lot of avoidance of the 2 questions...You also clearly know what I'm asking for and everything after that was just posturing or something on your part.

Why would he be more effective as a playmaking center than a playmaking winger?

Other than one season on a bad team compared to a rookie season getting limited minutes on the wing you have nothing in the NHL to compare to assess Desharnais.

History clearly states that small players have the most success on the wing.

I've already conceded Desharnais could very well be the exception to this rule.

And I'll readily state my opinion that he's a very solid top 6 option, or a hybrid 3rd line centerman who gets lots of PP time but faces lower level opponents, when possible, at even strength is a realistic assumption for Desharnais over the next several years.

I just can't see why moving him to the wing wouldn't make sense, especially since Eller is big and quite good defensively, Plekanec is one of the best 2 way centermen in the league and Galchenyuk was drafted to be the "big" centerman with size and skil lthis team has lacked for 15 years.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:18 PM
  #61
Ohashi_Jouzu
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No, don't give Gomez one last chance. What role does he possibly fill on a team that is trying to get better, bigger, faster, and tougher, is trying to develop at least two promising centres (3 if you include Leblanc), and has an overabundance of quality bottom liners who are just as productive offensively but come with waaaaay more "bang for the buck" and will hopefully make us "harder to play against"?

No, seriously, where exactly is Michel Therrien going to "get the best out of Gomez", and at what cost would that come in terms of the players that would have to start riding more pine in order to give him those opportunities? Why is finding the right recipe for Gomez's success even anywhere near the stove at this point? Tear that page out, toss it in the trash. It didn't taste very good at all, and the ingredients already have mold growing on them.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I said the same thing last year and even though we ended in dead last in the East, we left the draft with Galchenyuk, Collberg and co.. Might as well. If they don't add a top 6 winger, it will be another tough year to get through.
Completely disagree - Habs had a totally crap season, but in terms of the collective of players, they were nowhere near as poor as their 15th place finish. A malaise permeated the team due to poor leadership (starting with management). We have every reason to believe they can turn it around in 12-13 with new leaders and a tougher support crew.

p.s. I can't see Bergevin committing an NHL roster spot for Gomez given his quick disposal of Darche who provided a marginally better return on investment for his roster spot. The team is better served by allocating a spot to a young player with upside, or another more effective FA.


Last edited by expos4ever: 07-02-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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Old
07-02-2012, 11:41 PM
  #63
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Lol

A lot of avoidance of the 2 questions...You also clearly know what I'm asking for and everything after that was just posturing or something on your part.

Why would he be more effective as a playmaking center than a playmaking winger?

Other than one season on a bad team compared to a rookie season getting limited minutes on the wing you have nothing in the NHL to compare to assess Desharnais.

History clearly states that small players have the most success on the wing.

I've already conceded Desharnais could very well be the exception to this rule.

And I'll readily state my opinion that he's a very solid top 6 option, or a hybrid 3rd line centerman who gets lots of PP time but faces lower level opponents, when possible, at even strength is a realistic assumption for Desharnais over the next several years.

I just can't see why moving him to the wing wouldn't make sense, especially since Eller is big and quite good defensively, Plekanec is one of the best 2 way centermen in the league and Galchenyuk was drafted to be the "big" centerman with size and skil lthis team has lacked for 15 years.
If I'm that wrong, I suppose management will be as well as they will keep him as a C.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:50 PM
  #64
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Gomez is absolutely useless to the team right now, but there's only so many more character guys we can get with that cap space. At this point sending him down to the AHL makes more sense if a prospect forces their way up than anything else, this team is going to be bad with or without Gomez.

But I'm not sure what role he can play. Plekanec, DD and Eller are all better, he can't score goals, and he's too soft for the bottom 6.

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:56 PM
  #65
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you guys are gonna be pissed cause he's gonna get lotsa chances to prove himself again.hard to say whats gonna happen.

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07-03-2012, 12:18 AM
  #66
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Gomez needs raw talent in his wings to be a serviceable pivot. He'll never be worth his contract, carry a line or become the a primary producer but given genuine offensively skilled linemates, I'm sure he's skilled enough to set them up and ultimately produce.

Sadly we have no one that fits that bill.

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07-03-2012, 12:19 AM
  #67
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Cats have 9 lives, Gomez had 10. He's on his 10th life and expectations have never been lower. Heck, he's barely in any of our lineups.

My advice is to not develop any expectations because you will just be kicking yourself at the end.

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07-03-2012, 12:33 AM
  #68
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In not a single year with the Habs did he live up to his contract. This past year should be the last straw for the organization. His stats show a steady decline, and there is more reason to assume that trend will continue than not.

I suppose I can understand why some would think it wouldn't be unreasonable to give him a second (technically fourth) chance, but honestly, wouldn't it be better to give a younger, less expensive player a chance instead?

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07-03-2012, 12:50 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Looks like he'll be around at training camp...so;

Patches - DD - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gio
Moen - Eller - Prust
Armstrong - Gomez - White

Or if we switch DD to the wing and give Gomez a real chance;

Patches - Plekanec - Gio
DD - Gomez - Cole
Moen - Eller - Bourque
Prust - Armstrong - White
You can't be serious. Gomez playing with some of actual good players in Cole and DD? If you replace Gomez with Galchenyuk, then yes, those are cool lines.

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:39 AM
  #70
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I doubt Bergevin sends Gomez to Hamilton to please the fans, paying for past mistakes.
Gomez, like every player under contract he will get a chance under the new management, if he performs, he will play, if not then goodbye.

If Gomez shows some sign of life during camp I wouldn't be too suprised if he is given quality ice time in an attempt to drive his value. Trading for Gomez isn't Bergevin mistakes, his only focus should be to get the best possible return for his assets.

On the other hand, I don't think Bergevin would hesitate one minute to send Gomes off to fit another quality player with a big cap hit.

The Habs won't challange for the cup this season, I wouldn't mind one bit if Gomez is dressed for the opening faceoff if that results in him bringing something useul back.

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:43 AM
  #71
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If I had a time machine, I would much rather give Higgins another chance.

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:48 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Ha the Gomez saga! What to do? Once a really good player, winning Calder and 2 cups 32-33 year old player making boats load of money. Money aside, Gomez appears to be a great team guy...some one who wants to win. Just because everyone has written Gomez off, doesn't mean he is.
Solid answer from Bergevin in regards of Gomez...he part of the team was what he said.I have some hope here for some reason I can't explain.

just for fun, a line up with Gomez in and with these new UFAs.

Pacioretty-DD-Cole
Eller-Plekanec-Gionta
Bourque-Gomez-Prust
Moen-White-Armstrong
Nokelainen
Solid lines


MarkovSubban-Gorges in the top 4
Emelin has the potential to be a top 4 but seeing button pair on some night is not gonna hurt him.
Diaz/Weber/StDenis/Kaberle/Bouillon

Personally, not matter what we think about how bad Gomez is, I say our D looks pretty slime after those top3-4 and it scares me more then Gomez coming to camp. Was the biggest issue last year in terms of roster and this year looks no different.

The question are
can Gomez have a role on any team,money aside, ours for example?
can MT find the button that make Gomez go?
On a defensive line, can Gomez be good?If so, how good?
this wouldn't be a real chance for gomez. he won't produce with prust. if we do want to give him a real chance to succeed we should give him extended time with patches and cole:

pacioretty gomez cole
eller plekanec gionta
bourque dd armstrong
prust nokes moen
white

markov subban
kaberle gorges
emelin diaz
bouillon

price
budaj

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:55 AM
  #73
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He had enough chances, it's time to move on.

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:03 AM
  #74
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Gomez between Armstrong and Prust let's see how he feels with those guys on his line.

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:10 AM
  #75
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one thing I retained from the gill interview, was when he talked about gomez and the coaching change. He said how excited scotty got and how he was like 'yeah! Now we can play' but everything remained status quo. I'm always willing to give people another shot, even if just out of sheer curiosity and entertainment factor, and the excitement of the unknown. So yeah, I guess let's wait and see.

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