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Alex Semin - Plan B

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Old
07-02-2012, 11:52 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
It'd be nice but I don't think it's possible. Semin is going to want good money.
possibly. i thought i remember reading somewhere that he would take a short term deal to stay on the east coast.

Semin in this market probably gets 5-6 mil a year....semin, if he can get back to his 40/40 ways, can get 7+ a year. its up to him to decide...take a 5/25 mil contract now, or take a 1/5.5 deal, and then try to get a 7 year 49mil contract next year...

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07-03-2012, 12:07 AM
  #177
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At this point, he should be a plan A. He is a UFA, no need to give up assets. We won't get Nash. That is the reality of it. And I don't want him. Semin puts up just as many points, can be just as dynamic, and just as much as a game breaker. His work ethic might not be there, but let's not pretend and think Nash has Callahans work ethic.

Getting Nash will give up too many valuable assets right now and in the future. Semin won't, and outside of one season, Nash hasn't done anything Semin hasn't.

Ill say this now, I would rather have Nash, but at his cost, Semin would still add plenty of offense and create a formidable top 6 for our squad in the NHL.

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07-03-2012, 12:43 AM
  #178
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Sign him then trade him for nash or ryan.

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07-03-2012, 12:53 AM
  #179
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12M/2-year deal?

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07-03-2012, 02:10 AM
  #180
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I'm positive we'll sign him. might take a few weeks, but after Parise goes somewhere else and once Sather gets fed up with Howson, Semin will be a no brainer.

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07-03-2012, 02:20 AM
  #181
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I'm positive we'll sign him. might take a few weeks, but after Parise goes somewhere else and once Sather gets fed up with Howson, Semin will be a no brainer.
Semin waits patiently for the call from Savior?

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07-03-2012, 02:32 AM
  #182
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12M/2-year deal?
If Nash or Parise isnt an option, i would do that deal.

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07-03-2012, 02:54 AM
  #183
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This is what Torts said on break-up day about potentially bringing in new pieces that might not fit the system:

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2012/0...ws-tortorella/

Sounds to me like he's completely on-board with bringing in a guy like Semin...
The thing that makes me so not high on Semin is that he is another half clueless sniper. The put your head down skate up ice and shoot type.

We really really really could use a smart offensive player. Or atleast someone who is somewhat complete. Or if nothing else, someone who can hold on to the puck and skate it up ice. We already have Gaborik.

We have so many hard working players. We have so many players that would make life easy for a skilled guy. Brad Richards certainly helps, but he is too alone. Stepan is not quite there. Gaborik, Callahan, Hagelin, Kreider, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Boyle, Asham, Rupp and co are, each in their own way, very straight forward player types (Dubi and AA might have just a tad of playmaking ability, but its not much). That's 9 of them, and we all know that another position on this team will be filled with a similar type. On the playmaking account we have Brad Richards and Derek Stepan, but neither of them cover that much ice nor are always around the puck etc.

There is one position to fill. Annooootththeer type who will just skate up ice with his head down and shoot, bang-his-head-against-the-wall-type, just don't make much sense. Heck, Zherdev would have made more sense. Hudler would have helped. Riberio would have helped. Radulov could have been huge. A Veersteeg or Booth or Ryder would have helped. But another half-clueless sniper? If we didn't have Gaborik, sure, I wouldn't mind at all taking a shot at what Torts could do with Semin.


Last edited by Ola: 07-03-2012 at 03:06 AM.
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Old
07-03-2012, 03:19 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by redfzn View Post
12M/2-year deal?
6m?

No thanks. 5 is the max id give him, but we arent going to get him. Slats knows torts would bench him every other shift so its not worth it.

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07-03-2012, 04:54 AM
  #185
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That funny, anyone who knows anything about the TBL knows exactly why Torts was replaced.
"There was a sense this season that Tortorella's message was no longer getting through to players in the locker room, however Feaster rejected the notion that the fiery coach lost the team.

"I don't think that it was a matter of losing the locker room. Sometimes the message, especially if communicated by the same person, is not received maybe the way it was years ago," the GM said, adding that there also were times this season when he and Tortorella didn't see eye-to-eye on things.
"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3424571

In that article it says that he lost the team...and he wanted to be let go although later he backed down on that . It says the team did not want to buy into his style or system anymore .

When I read stuff like that I do wonder when such a meltdown might happen here...guys do not like blocking a ton of shots year after year especially the more well payed fellows regardless of what you may want to believe . A few select will always do it...but certainly not everybody .

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07-03-2012, 05:05 AM
  #186
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I wonder if Semin would do a 1 year deal and then take his chances for a big payday next year. If we could get him under the cap I'd give him 6-7 mill provided it's only a 1 year deal. That way we dont mortgage the future (MDZ, MCDonagh, Stepan etc payrises/extensions)

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07-03-2012, 07:36 AM
  #187
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The Torts aplogists in here will sing a different tune when Kreider becomes a shot blocking injured plug .

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07-03-2012, 07:46 AM
  #188
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The Torts aplogists in here will sing a different tune when Kreider becomes a shot blocking injured plug .
Give it a rest already. Its just annoying now.

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07-03-2012, 08:18 AM
  #189
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while im obviously not a huge torts guy, its hard to deny his and the teams success recently.

i love to blame him and his "system" for boring play and losing games, but we were one of the top teams in the entire league last year and so he has to be given props for that.

a better powerplay and a few more even strength goals we make the finals. hard to argue with that. and i have been quite impressed with his ability to get the most out of the young blue chippers like kreider, hags and mcdonough.

on to semin. i like his talent and i like russians. but hes not a popular player it seems and a bit of a primadona. enegmatic russian comes to mind. when he wants to, hes a top player in the league with a wicked shot. can he coexist with torts ? i have my doubts.

but a 2 year deal at the right price ? i would say yes. this team is close. we are perhaps a few players away from making a serious run. hanks in his prime. adding a guy like semin, with his offensive talent is hard to pass up when its only money and not prospects. and unlike many teams, he would have a real chance at a cup with us.

im leaning towards the yes column here. you give him a centerman like richy and those 2 could be magic. adding semin would also give us 3 solid lines and make us really hard to matchup against. keep in mind he was +9 last year too so hes no slug when it comes to backchecking and helping out. and in fact, hes an excellent pk guy. i think he could make a difference helping us score a few more even strength goals and certainly would make the pp more dangerous.

and last year, thats all we needed to make the finals. i say go for it.

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07-03-2012, 08:46 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by LordsCup View Post
Sign him then trade him for nash or ryan.
Or sign him instead of trading for Nash.

Last 3 seasons
Rick Nash (28 years old, RW, 6'4 220lbs)
2009-10 76 GP, 33 G, 34 A for 67 pts (-2) (10 PPG)
2010-11 75 GP, 32 G, 34 A for 66 pts (+2) (6 PPG)
2011-12 82 GP, 30 G, 29 A for 59 pts (-19) (6 PPG)

Alexander Semin (28 years old, LW, 6'2 210lbs)
2009-10 73 GP, 40 G, 44 A for 84 pts (+36) (8 PPG)
2010-11 65 GP, 28 G, 26 A for 54pts (+22) (6 PPG)
2011-12 77 GP, 21 G, 33 A for 54 pts (+9) (2 PPG)

Please forgive any errors above.

Semin would likely be less of a cap hit and if some of the rumors are true, the terms of a potential cap hit would be less of a commitment as far as years go. Finally, Semin does not cost assets. I think Nash is vastly overrated and a huge mistake. On the surface, it appears that Nash is more of a Tortorella type player. I think the Rangers have finally created an atmosphere where Callahan and other leaders will have a positive effect on Semin (and Nash but still do not want).

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07-03-2012, 08:54 AM
  #191
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Signing Semin would be a real test of just how tight-knit this group really is. If this group of guys can get him to buy in, then he could be a huge steal. The talent is undeniable. The conditioning and work ethic is the real issue. Will he change his ways if he's surrounded by a bunch of guys who bust their ass every day? I guess we'll see what the organization thinks.

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07-03-2012, 09:13 AM
  #192
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If Semin can be had on a two year deal at a reasonable cap hit I think you have to pull the trigger. Guys with his skill level aren't available often, and he can be had without losing assets. If he doesn't jive with the team culture, then so be it. Trade him or let him run to the KHL.

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07-03-2012, 09:43 AM
  #193
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I wonder if Semin would do a 1 year deal and then take his chances for a big payday next year. If we could get him under the cap I'd give him 6-7 mill provided it's only a 1 year deal. That way we dont mortgage the future (MDZ, MCDonagh, Stepan etc payrises/extensions)
This is what I proposed, except I'm expecting he can command 6-7, to begin with, so I'd offer him a full 8mil, AGAIN ONLY FOR THE 1 YEAR.

We need to be prepared, can't expect Semin to wait, and should be prepared to go this far.
If he's getting long term 7mil per, this probably isn't enough, even 9mil for 1 yr, not enough.
But if he's offered like 5.5-6m per for only 2-3 years, then maybe checking out 8-9 for 1 year might do it.

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07-03-2012, 09:45 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Signing Semin would be a real test of just how tight-knit this group really is. If this group of guys can get him to buy in, then he could be a huge steal. The talent is undeniable. The conditioning and work ethic is the real issue. Will he change his ways if he's surrounded by a bunch of guys who bust their ass every day? I guess we'll see what the organization thinks.
Your right, except IMO the bold is not THAT important.
Results are more key, especially if we only buy into this guy for 1 year.

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07-03-2012, 11:06 AM
  #195
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Signing Semin would be a real test of just how tight-knit this group really is. If this group of guys can get him to buy in, then he could be a huge steal. The talent is undeniable. The conditioning and work ethic is the real issue. Will he change his ways if he's surrounded by a bunch of guys who bust their ass every day? I guess we'll see what the organization thinks.
The problem with Semin is that it really isn't only "talent". His explosiveness; shot and skating, is undeniable.

But you know, Freddy Shoestring could skate and shoot too...

If we look at Semin from a 70-80 pts perspective, he just doesn't have that many tools in his box. He isn't good on the circle down low. He is certainly no playmaker nor a offensive wiz. He is a break away player. He got a insane wrister when he got room to use it, and a decent one-timer. He is good in odd man rushes-situations. Nothing wrong with him there.

But when a coach puts him on the ice and tells him that he is relying on him to carry the team -- what's he supposed to do? Get 5 odd man rushes per shift? That was Washington's problem. Washington needed the absolute opposite of that. They needed someone who could step on the ice and get his team up ice and win momentum when Bäckström wasn't on the ice. Instead they got a player who on 3 or 4 or 5 occasions per game, made tremendous plays. But in most other situations was pretty darn avg, from the forecheck, to the circle, to the backcheck. Coaches tried to push him, and to be perfectly honest, I would imagine that Semin responeded well at first, but he just couldn't give much. And he lost confidence and wasn't very outspoken and so forth.

Alex Semin got every raw ability to be atleast as good as say a Petr Sykora in his prime. But he isn't as smart as Sykora was. He is way less creative. He is a one man show. And that might work if you are as insanely talented as say a Ilya Kovalchuk, but not if you only got a great first step and a real whip as shot like Semin.

Not from 70-80 pts perspective.

If we sign Semin to like a 6m deal, we get a player who will "disapear" in certain situations just like Gabby. Sure, we would also get a player who would put the puck in the net during the regular season, and on occasion in the PO's when something falls into his lap. But we wouldn't get a leader.

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07-03-2012, 11:09 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
"There was a sense this season that Tortorella's message was no longer getting through to players in the locker room, however Feaster rejected the notion that the fiery coach lost the team.

"I don't think that it was a matter of losing the locker room. Sometimes the message, especially if communicated by the same person, is not received maybe the way it was years ago," the GM said, adding that there also were times this season when he and Tortorella didn't see eye-to-eye on things.
"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3424571

In that article it says that he lost the team...and he wanted to be let go although later he backed down on that . It says the team did not want to buy into his style or system anymore .

When I read stuff like that I do wonder when such a meltdown might happen here...guys do not like blocking a ton of shots year after year especially the more well payed fellows regardless of what you may want to believe . A few select will always do it...but certainly not everybody .
Torts lost it with the ice time in Tampa. Look at some of the stats from the last 3-4 PO's he coached that team in. He put his star forwards on the ice for like 25-28 minutes per game and rode them tremendously hard. It was down right destructive.

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07-03-2012, 11:24 AM
  #197
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When the world turns against a guy, I always find myself wanting that guy to prove the naysayers wrong. Semin has basically been bashed by everyone except Craig Button (who pointed out that Semin bought into Dale Hunter's system and played the kind of responsible hockey Hunter wanted him to play). Did he buy-in because he was playing on a one-year "show me what ya got" contract? Which Semin is going to show up in the fall of 2012? And lets not forget that during Semin's best seasons, he was playing with an Ovechkin who was producing offense at super-elite levels.

On the negative side, the guy has been noticeably invisible many times during his career. Plus, he's another guy who has a problem staying healthy. In 7 seasons he's had 4 where he missed 30, 19, 20 and 17 games (although, to be fair, I can't remember if the 30 games he missed in his rookie season where all due to injury).

The Rangers were an extremely tight team last year. There was definitely an all for one mentality and that fed into the coach's system which is based on sacrifice. Semin has not been that kind of player and I don't know that he'll change.

Prust was a perfect player to keep this team on Tort's track with his effort and willingness to sacrifice every night. I'm not saying the Rangers can't succeed without him but he will be missed. Now you bring in Semin, who has been the antithesis of Prust when it comes to effort and sacrifice and maybe the team takes another step back in terms of chemistry. I'm starting to think Fedotenko should be resigned if nothing else than because he is a Torts guy and will keep people on point. Could he be a good role model for Semin?

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07-03-2012, 11:37 AM
  #198
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The attempts to get Nash and Ryan are at a stalemate. It doesn't look like Howson or Murray is going to let their guys go without Stepan or Kreider going the other way. There is no way in hell this organization is going to let either of those guys go. At this point, I think Semin might be our only option (besides Doan- but I think he stays in Phoenix) if we want to upgrade our offense this off-season.

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07-03-2012, 12:03 PM
  #199
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I am for signing A.S.
Anyone the TSN crew goes out of their way to bad mouth is ok in my book. I remember them and mad mike bad mouthing jagr. I loved everytime he shoved it in their faces with his actions on the ice.

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07-03-2012, 12:30 PM
  #200
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I am for signing A.S.
Anyone the TSN crew goes out of their way to bad mouth is ok in my book. I remember them and mad mike bad mouthing jagr. I loved everytime he shoved it in their faces with his actions on the ice.
I hated milbury during the Jagr years. He always had something bad to say about him. He could score a hat trick and it wouldnt be enough

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