HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brandon Prust to Montreal [4 years, $10M]

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2012, 10:59 AM
  #501
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie View Post
I dont get it. Look at the year he had 2 years ago. Those numbers are well worth 2.5mill per year easy.
The problem with looking at the year he had two years ago, is that you have to look at the year he had before AND after that, and realize that we've committed to him for another year longer than that total sample. Will it be worth it if we only get 1 of those years out of the next 4? Is there reason to believe we're going to get THAT Prust at least 2 of the next 4 years, and will that be worth it?

I like the Prust addition in its essence, but the money and term might have made me look around a bit longer during the off season for something similar, cheaper, requiring less commitment, that's all. It's hardly a franchise crippling deal though, so whatever, really.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:03 AM
  #502
charlie
Registered User
 
charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The problem with looking at the year he had two years ago, is that you have to look at the year he had before AND after that, and realize that we've committed to him for another year longer than that total sample. Will it be worth it if we only get 1 of those years out of the next 4? Is there reason to believe we're going to get THAT Prust at least 2 of the next 4 years, and will that be worth it?

I like the Prust addition in its essence, but the money and term might have made me look around a bit longer during the off season for something similar, cheaper, requiring less commitment, that's all. It's hardly a franchise crippling deal though, so whatever, really.
Well they say he was the top 3rd,4th liner available in this years crop of free agents.
I am glad we arent waiting and looking around....cause there aint too many other options.

charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #503
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie View Post
Well you might be surprised come this year cause Bergevin has high praise and said himself we need to keep room for him.

Quote:

“We can’t forget that we have some talented prospects in the system right now that we still have to leave the door open for. Guys like Brendan Gallagher and Louis Leblanc could have a chance at playing in Montreal,” explained Bergevin. “I’m happy with our team right now. If I can do anything else to improve us further, I definitely will, but I feel good about what we’re working with at the moment.”

Link:

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.h...id=DL|MTL|home
Gallagher - Desharnais - Gionta
Bouillon - XXXX

I hope we'll see that on the ice at the same time at least one shift.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:11 AM
  #504
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
You've been under a rock for the last 5 years haven't you?
Nope, but I take it you've been under one for longer if you feel this is an appropriate way to have a discussion.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:14 AM
  #505
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Nope, but I take it you've been under one for longer if you feel this is an appropriate way to have a discussion.
Don't tell me you're softer than Kaberle?

Ginu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:16 AM
  #506
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Don't tell me you're softer than Kaberle?
Not sure what that has to do with my disinterest in talking to people who lack basic social skills.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #507
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The problem with looking at the year he had two years ago, is that you have to look at the year he had before AND after that, and realize that we've committed to him for another year longer than that total sample. Will it be worth it if we only get 1 of those years out of the next 4? Is there reason to believe we're going to get THAT Prust at least 2 of the next 4 years, and will that be worth it?

I like the Prust addition in its essence, but the money and term might have made me look around a bit longer during the off season for something similar, cheaper, requiring less commitment, that's all. It's hardly a franchise crippling deal though, so whatever, really.
Yup. Not crippling at all.

Though, I do wonder how Prust's body will hold up in three to four seasons. I suspect it's an overpayment in years one and two, and pretty bad on the back half. Oh well.

On the bright side, he'll be entertaining.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:22 AM
  #508
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Yup. Not crippling at all.

Though, I do wonder how Prust's body will hold up in three to four seasons. I suspect it's an overpayment in years one and two, and pretty bad on the back half. Oh well.

On the bright side, he'll be entertaining.
The problem is the Habs have not been able to draft/develop this type of player...that's why they had to go out on the open market and overpay (which you almost always do post July 1st) to acquire a Brandon Prust.

In essence, I agree with you...the Habs shouldnt have to be paying this type of player 2.5M per year, over the next 4 years. (though it's not really a crippling deal in the first place)

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:31 AM
  #509
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
It would have been an overpayment FROM THE RANGERS. They have an entire team of grinders/hard workers. They need skill and offense.

Montreal has very few, if any, players like Prust. I would say his market value is about 2-2.2 million/season. He got 2.5 as a UFA in a terrible market. Colby Armstrong got 3 million from Toronto a couple of years ago.

Adam Burish got 1.8 million/season. Prust >>>>>> Burish.
I don't think Burish's contract is relevant. That's an awful contract--worse than Prust's, you're right. It doesn't make Prust's good, however. Tootoo's contract is also worse than Prust's.

Armstrong got $3m because out of his five years in the NHL, every single one of them he produced more offense than Prust had in Prust's only decent offensive season. The two contracts aren't comparable because Armstrong was actually a legitimate higher-end third liner at that point, whereas Prust is a solid 4th liner.

The only thing Prust provides that other Montreal grinders/hard workers don't is a constant willingness to drop the gloves. Montreal had that in Kostopoulos: tireless worker who was always courageous in fighting (though, he's a miserable fighter where Prust is average). Prust will add some courage to the fourth line. Wonderful. I like him, and that's fun and all for entertainment purposes, but it doesn't change the fact that Prust is a 4th liner and 4th liners shouldn't be making $2.5m.

The salary really isn't the huge concern here, though. As I've mentioned, I like all of Bouillon, Armstrong and Prust in terms of their play. They're serviceable-ish players. The problem here, with all three of the signings (less so with Bouillon), is that Montreal's top-6 isn't very good. So the club needed to stock up depth that could contribute offensively and play strong fundamental hockey. In other words: be able to play 'safe' hockey against opposition scoring lines and maybe chip in offense here and there.

Essentially, provide the kind of depth that Dominic Moore was serviceable with: safe defensively, good fundamentals, and a bit of offense.

This would:

a) provide relief for the overworked Plekanec, both on the PK and in hard minutes and defensive zone faceoffs;
b) help provide further shelter to Desharnais, and future youngsters coming up;
c) give the coach more options, should Therrien be inclined to acknowledge the options and utilise them properly (...);
d) compensate for the lack of high-end talent by spreading around the workload and having superior depth than the opposition

As it stands, Montreal is loading up the bottom-6 with grit to compensate for the lack of grit in the top-6, but not loading up on talent to compensate the lack of talent in the top-6.

So Montreal may match many teams' grit now, but they won't match up talent wise.

Prust, Moen, White and Armstrong are the bottom-6 wingers and none of them are a safe bet to score 10 goals. That's rough, IMO, for a team like Montreal.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:32 AM
  #510
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The problem is the Habs have not been able to draft/develop this type of player...that's why they had to go out on the open market and overpay (which you almost always do post July 1st) to acquire a Brandon Prust.

In essence, I agree with you...the Habs shouldnt have to be paying this type of player 2.5M per year, over the next 4 years. (though it's not really a crippling deal in the first place)
I question the need for this type of player on the roster period, frankly. (Again, I like him personally and will enjoy the entertainment that he'll provide with White, Armstrong and Moen, but I don't see him as a necessary component to a winning franchise)

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:38 AM
  #511
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,268
vCash: 500
And to add to my post above on my problem with the Prust/Armstrong signings:

Reclamation projects are a good idea. Taking on a reclamation project who is injury prone is something I'd generally avoid, but it can be a good idea and worth the risk. However, taking on a brittle player like Armstrong, who the most we should expect from is to be a serviceable bottom-6 player who's more of an energy player than an offensive contributor, and then failing to get any really good bottom-6 players who can generate offense with Eller? That's where I take issue with the combination of Armstrong+Prust signings.

Take the risk with Armstrong, but then sign a real contributor that can generate something for your bottom six. Don't sign two players who'd have to exceed expectations to be contributors--not when the other bottom-6 wingers are White and Moen.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:39 AM
  #512
Sam I Am
Registered User
 
Sam I Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,395
vCash: 500
Much was written about the Habs' interest in trading for Steve Ott. Yesterday, Ott was finally dealt to the Sabres for Derek Roy. One day earlier, the Habs acquired free agent Brandon Prust.

Looking at what the Sabres had to part with in the Ott deal (Roy), one could extrapolate that the Stars were looking to take back Tomas Plekanec from the Canadiens. By signing Prust as a UFA, the Habs' get a similar, if somewhat lesser player to Ott, and retain their number one center.

This is strong asset management. Ott is certainly a more accomplished player than Prust but not to the extent that Plekanec be lost as trade bait. And who knows? With an increased role next season, Prust's offensive numbers may well rise. If not, we still get an excellent defensive player who is every bit the sht-disturber that Ott is.

And we get to keep Plekanec in the bargain.

Sam I Am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:42 AM
  #513
AlexGalchenyuk94
NHL Managerial Guru
 
AlexGalchenyuk94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Is it confirmed that he'll wear #8?

AlexGalchenyuk94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 11:54 AM
  #514
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I question the need for this type of player on the roster period, frankly. (Again, I like him personally and will enjoy the entertainment that he'll provide with White, Armstrong and Moen, but I don't see him as a necessary component to a winning franchise)
Meh...all depends on the type of team you're building.

Perhaps having a Brandon Prust on a Jacques Martin coached team isn't necessary, but on Michel Therrien, there is?

Time will tell I guess...

I like the Prust signing, i'm indifferent on Armstrong though...but I don't think in anyway, that these moves are designed to make the team a contender all of a sudden.

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 12:03 PM
  #515
MTL-rules
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Gallagher - Desharnais - Gionta
Bouillon - XXXX

I hope we'll see that on the ice at the same time at least one shift.
Diaz, Weber or St-Denis... who's the smallest ?

MTL-rules is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 12:16 PM
  #516
Vanek20
Drive for 25
 
Vanek20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizniewski View Post
Is it confirmed that he'll wear #8?
Yea. I can confirm it.

EDIT : -25stanley


Last edited by Vanek20: 07-03-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Vanek20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 12:41 PM
  #517
Callagraves
Block shots
 
Callagraves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,372
vCash: 500
Enjoy it, guys. Pruster is an elite 4th line grinder. I know how silly that sounds, but all the jobs you'll ask of him, (hitting, blocking shots, fighting, killing penalties, defending teammates, offensive zone pressure) he'll do better than the next guy. Great locker room guy, not the biggest but he's got enough balls to drop the gloves with John Scott, and that inspires any team.

Callagraves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 12:45 PM
  #518
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 12:48 PM
  #519
niftymove
Registered User
 
niftymove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Enjoy it, guys. Pruster is an elite 4th line grinder. I know how silly that sounds, but all the jobs you'll ask of him, (hitting, blocking shots, fighting, killing penalties, defending teammates, offensive zone pressure) he'll do better than the next guy. Great locker room guy, not the biggest but he's got enough balls to drop the gloves with John Scott, and that inspires any team.
Absolutely.

And it is so futile to argue about overpaying him. Sure he is, but it is Montreal and you have to factor this in.

niftymove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 03:50 PM
  #520
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,471
vCash: 500
We got a perfect 4th/3rd liner who can play PK and has huge balls. Yeah 2.5M$ is a lot but with the cap at 70M$ such contracts is comparable to 1.75M$ 2 years ago.

ChoseLa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 04:09 PM
  #521
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, it's not the premise, really. The premise is that I don't think Bouillon is a good hockey player, and I think Prust perhaps gets too much money and has been offered too long of a term. Neither one, in and of itself, is necessarily a horrible thing to have to deal with. Together though (and 'framed', if you like), of course there's a consideration of 'opportunity cost'. Anyone who is still expecting bigger/more significant changes to come has to realize that there is now $4 million less available to get that done. I'm sure it wouldn't take someone more inclined than myself to draw up a decent list of better uses for that $4 million.

I like the addition of Prust, don't get me wrong. But an over 300% raise, for a longer term than he has stuck around anywhere up to his current age of 28, and to fill a role that necessarily has a high risk of injury? We'll see how big his contribution is to change/improvement over the next 4 years, I guess.
i your post, you quoted TTG and bolded this line : "This weekend Prust+Boullion essentially was the price for a 2nd line winger or a number 4 defenseman. That's the opportunity cost here."


that's the premie I see as faulty... sure there are better options of a 4M$ player out there, but those contracts were signed in previous seasons (cap going up by ~7M$ obviously has an upward effect on new contracts).

looking at what is available right now, and how much 4M$ gets you on the UFA market this year, I think trying to argue that signing Prust/Bouillion = not signing that 2nd line winger/#4dman simply doesn't reflect the reality of the current situation.

I agree that we gave Prust a UFA premium, and that's generally the cost of signing any player that is in high demand on the UFA market for his role... just look at what Gaustad, Hudler, Wideman, et. signed for.

I also agree that Bouillion wasn't a big enough "need" to warrant 1.5M$, and in his case it's almost worst than Prust in the sense that other similar options for a gritty depth dman were out there and cheaper.

but the rational Bergie is using is that he wanted to rebuild the culture in the room, and felt that he needed to add certain character elements that have been missing.
Gainey tried to do the same thing in '09, but instead of overpaying by ~500k on a 1 yr deal, or by .5k-1M on a 4 yr deal, he overpaid by considerably more on those front end players, a summer of moves that inevitably led us to the 15th place shambles we saw last season.

I prefer a GM gamble small on big character, than gamble big on small character.

Outside of Parise, there really isn't any fwd worth the kind of term/cap commitment it will likely take to sign them as UFA's (Semin... Doan... no one else really). Ditto for top-4 D, outside of Suter, no one worth going after.

Bouillion's 1.5M$ is off the books next July, leaving only Prust's 2.5M$... hardly a sum that will be the limiting factor in going after a guy like Perry should he be on the market.

Risk/reward and opportunity cost are the name of the game, and in this case, I disagree that the "opportunity cost" is the ability to find the solutions at top-6 fwd or top-4 D.

if anything, the "cost" is cementing a bottom-6 spot with a veteran player, making it tougher for young guys like Leblanc/Geoffrion/Palushaj to earn a regular roster spot... but imo that's not a terrible thing at this junction... all three of those guys won't be hurt by playing a leading role in Hamilton and getting time as injury call-ups as needed for this season (that is, unless they beat out Bourque for a roster spot right from camp, which isn't so far fetched and would end up opening up some cap space should we send him to hamilton instead.)

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 04:16 PM
  #522
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Meh...all depends on the type of team you're building.

Perhaps having a Brandon Prust on a Jacques Martin coached team isn't necessary, but on Michel Therrien, there is?

Time will tell I guess...

I like the Prust signing, i'm indifferent on Armstrong though...but I don't think in anyway, that these moves are designed to make the team a contender all of a sudden.
exactly...

Bergie came out and explained it pretty clearly, first objective for him was to add some character players to the locker room as his assessment of the team's current situation is that we lacked that element.

i imagine a big part of it for him was the reality that so often our team lacked any push back when liberties were being taken post whistle/around our net. Bergie played long enough to understand what that reflects about the team atmosphere, and seems determined to address that.

It doesn't mean that he doesn't see the other holes in the roster, but finding the right guys in depth roles to improve the attitude/character of the team is somewhat easier than finding the right solutions in high-profile top-6/top-4 positions.

likewise, filling those holes requires a much greater commitment financially/cap-wise, so it would stand to reason that greater patience and planning are required to successfully address them. That's a welcome shift from Gainey's belief that he could fix everything in one offseason worth of dramatic signings/trades.

time will tell which approach worked better, though improving on the eventual 15th place finish that the previous "plan" led to shouldn't be all that difficult!

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 05:02 PM
  #523
Hannibal
Brandon Prust FTW
 
Hannibal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gally94 View Post
Yea. I can confirm it.

EDIT : -25stanley
That looks too good to be true!

Hannibal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 05:13 PM
  #524
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
That looks too good to be true!
Haha I can bring back my Komisarek jersey!

Ginu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2012, 05:22 PM
  #525
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gally94 View Post
Yea. I can confirm it.

EDIT : -25stanley
Which woman's hand is that ? Marie-Pier, the Prust's girlfriend ?

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.