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Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:12 AM
  #26
Unagi
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Jeez, stop with those Adam proposals. Not impressed with him at all. Certainly not as a 2C option.

For Buffalo any Ryan proposal probably would have to involve Hodgson. Only logical since Murray wanted Schenn/Couts from Flyers.

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07-03-2012, 10:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm not sure which posts you're referring to, but that seemed a fairly substantive contribution. Zibanejad + Greening plus either a pick or a prospect is a fair offer--adding both seems a bit of an overpayment.

That's all he said, isn't it. Why does it matter what team he supports?
I think you know why, even if you don't want to admit it. I think it's the same reason why you've brought up multiple times, even after the draft, that offer for Ryan and the 6th. Granted, I brought it up in this thread, so that one is on me.

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07-03-2012, 10:13 AM
  #28
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Also, you're dodging the difference in size and hitting like it's nothing. It isn't.
I'm not sure why you seem so hostile, but that's basically what I was asking for--the way I understand it, you think that the size and physicality of Greening would be more valuable than the speed and goal-scoring of Read when it comes to replacing Ryan, right?

That makes sense.

I'll take a look through the old Ryan thread, but it doesn't really matter, right? I mean, that was before the draft and free agency, so Anaheim's needs are presumably quite different now than 10-14 days ago.

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07-03-2012, 10:14 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
I've been wondering why we haven't heard more from the Senators. They've been interested in Nash but not Ryan apparently. Ryan would be a great winger for Spezza.
Well its the trades you don't hear about that eventually happen

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07-03-2012, 10:15 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm not sure why you seem so hostile, but that's basically what I was asking for--the way I understand it, you think that the size and physicality of Greening would be more valuable than the speed and goal-scoring of Read when it comes to replacing Ryan, right?

That makes sense.
I'm sorry, we have a team that we watch, and it isn't the Flyers. We have a better handle on our needs than people that don't.

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07-03-2012, 10:18 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
The Ducks need a big bodied young winger to replace the loss of Ryan.
I don't think I can get behind it.

Zibanejad - sure
Wiercioch - sure
1st rounder - ouch, but sure.

+ Greening? - can't commit to that. Condra maybe, but not Greening.

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07-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #32
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Montreal offers their 1st in 2013, Lars Eller, Rene Bourque and Morgan Ellis.

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07-03-2012, 10:20 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I don't think I can get behind it.

Zibanejad - sure
Wiercioch - sure
1st rounder - ouch, but sure.

+ Greening? - can't commit to that. Condra maybe, but not Greening.
Wiercioch isn't needed more than Greening.

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07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Montreal offers their 1st in 2013, Lars Eller, Rene Bourque and Morgan Ellis.
I'd do Bourque for Cogliano.

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07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm sorry, we have a team that we watch, and it isn't the Flyers. We have a better handle on our needs than people that don't.
...I didn't dispute that.

Seriously, take a step back.

I simply asked why Greening was more appealing than Read--given that they are of similar age, but Read was significantly better in his only NHL season.

You provided one answer, which I acknowledged made sense, that in the event Ryan was dealt, and a high-end center prospect was coming back, Greening's size and physicality would be more valuable as a supplemental piece than Read's secondary scoring.

I was mostly curious because I enjoy commenting on the offers from other teams, and I try to take into account what, in this case, the Ducks fans say their needs are.

I don't consider myself, or the Flyers, a spurned suitor for Ryan. The Ducks are clear: they want Couturier or Schenn--understandably so. The Flyers don't want to give them up. Unless one or the other changes, a deal won't get done.

As I've posted many, many times, I don't believe the Flyers can get Ryan without giving up Schenn or Couturier--so I'm pretty sure we agree on what a deal would look like, and that it seems unlikely to happen.

Are we cool?

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07-03-2012, 10:22 AM
  #36
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Once Parise is gone, we will have all those Ryan to PHI for Schenn/Couturier talks again...oh boy this is going to be a long summer.

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07-03-2012, 10:23 AM
  #37
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Laich + Schultz + 2013 1st for Ryan.

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07-03-2012, 10:24 AM
  #38
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Are we cool?
We're good.

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07-03-2012, 10:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Wiercioch isn't needed more than Greening.
Dammit, do I ever not want to give Zibanejad + Greening + 1st.

Part of me would run as GM if that's what it took.

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07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
  #40
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wow looking at Ducks roster, outside of Allen who shouldnt be included, that's decent cap hits all around for everyone on the roster.



Is Anaheim looking to find players who make less per year then Ryan? Even if the total sum adds up more, just 1 player in general not costing more then Ryan? Budgets and all


I think the problem here is that everyone is offering up prospects as a whole. Anaheim NEEDS a proven #2 center coming back, not prospects who could be them but havent done anything.



Hodgson + Stafford might be something to start with

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07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Any interest from Ducks nation?

To Toronto:
Bobby Ryan (RW/LW)

To Anaheim:
Nikolai Kulemin (RW/LW)
Tyler Bozak (C)
Stuart Percy (D)
2nd Round Pick (2013)

Anaheim gets...

Kulemin: Top 6 Russian power forward, tremendously reliable defensively and consistent effort.
Bozak: Decent 2nd line centre/great 3rd line centre, good skill set, penalty killer.
Percy: 2011 draft pick (1st round), high IQ, very poised, 2nd pairing upside.
2nd Round Pick (2013): Should be in the 40-50 range, very deep draft.

You can point at Kulemin's lack of offensive production this past season, I've watched him for years and he'll bounce back to a 55+ point forward.
We add MacArthur + Franson

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
Once Parise is gone, we will have all those Ryan to PHI for Schenn/Couturier talks again...oh boy this is going to be a long summer.
No, we won't. Philly will go without a scoring winger for Giroux this season before they give up one of those 2. Next year's free agency is juicer and it puts Ryan one year closer to getting out of Anahiem as a UFA.

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07-03-2012, 10:36 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
No, we won't. Philly will go without a scoring winger for Giroux this season before they give up one of those 2. Next year's free agency is juicer and it puts Ryan one year closer to getting out of Anahiem as a UFA.
3 years is a long time. PHI might not even be a contender then. You never know. And PHI's GM seems dead set on making big deals every year...if they don't get Parise, they will for sure be asking about Nash and Ryan. So we probably will have discussion regarding a trade.

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07-03-2012, 10:36 AM
  #44
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Is Anaheim looking to find players who make less per year then Ryan? Even if the total sum adds up more, just 1 player in general not costing more then Ryan? Budgets and all
In a word: yes. Exactly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
I think the problem here is that everyone is offering up prospects as a whole. Anaheim NEEDS a proven #2 center coming back, not prospects who could be them but havent done anything.
Hit the nail on the head, again. There are exceptions with a very small "can't miss"-type prospects, but other than that, that's the center piece we require as a basis, for all we have been told, for all there's to hear, and for all that makes sense.

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07-03-2012, 10:36 AM
  #45
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To Buffalo

F Bobby Ryan
4th rd 2014

To Anaheim

F Drew Stafford
D Mark Pysyk
1st rd 2013
2nd rd 2014
That's a heck of a lot to give up for one player.

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:41 AM
  #46
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Kadri, Kulemin, Connolly & Franson for Ryan and Lydman
Connolly and Kulemin would be solid upgrades in their 2nd/3rd line, Kadri a good prospect who could maybe pan out to be top 6 with a change of scenery, and a RH dman which Anaheim has zero of.

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07-03-2012, 10:44 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
Kadri, Kulemin, Connolly & Franson for Ryan and Lydman


A 2C would be the CENTREPIECE of a Ryan trade. Neither Kadri nor Connolly fits that description.

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07-03-2012, 10:46 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post


A 2C would be the CENTREPIECE of a Ryan trade. Neither Kadri nor Connolly fits that description.
Connolly probably is a 2C, no? He's just not young / cheap / consistently healthy enough to make sense going forward for the Ducks.

When he plays, he's a pretty good player, but I can't imagine that he can hold a lot of value in a trade because of his injury concerns.

EDIT: To be clear, I get your point, and I don't disagree--but what about a situation where Toronto offers something like Colborne and Connolly + +, on the theory that Connolly can serve as 2C next year (an upgrade on Bonino and Cogliano), and Colborne can develop into that role a bit more slowly.

(The problem, from an outsider's perspective, seems to be less the 2C thing than the other parts o the package, which I wouldn't imagine hold a lot of value to Anaheim.

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07-03-2012, 10:49 AM
  #49
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A 2C would be the CENTREPIECE of a Ryan trade. Neither Kadri nor Connolly fits that description.
We should really keep saying "very good young #2C". Teams that don't have their own versions of Schenn/Couturier/Stepan or aren't willing to move them should not expect to receive great reviews.

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07-03-2012, 10:50 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
3 years is a long time. PHI might not even be a contender then. You never know. And PHI's GM seems dead set on making big deals every year...if they don't get Parise, they will for sure be asking about Nash and Ryan. So we probably will have discussion regarding a trade.
If the Flyers don't get Parise, that won't affect Ryan's trade value to them. That is the definition of "wishful thinking."

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