HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2012, 11:52 AM
  #51
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
wow looking at Ducks roster, outside of Allen who shouldnt be included, that's decent cap hits all around for everyone on the roster.

Is Anaheim looking to find players who make less per year then Ryan? Even if the total sum adds up more, just 1 player in general not costing more then Ryan? Budgets and all
I think it all depends on the new CBA, and what the new budget target is/is expected to be.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 11:57 AM
  #52
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Connolly probably is a 2C, no? He's just not young / cheap / consistently healthy enough to make sense going forward for the Ducks.

When he plays, he's a pretty good player, but I can't imagine that he can hold a lot of value in a trade because of his injury concerns.

EDIT: To be clear, I get your point, and I don't disagree--but what about a situation where Toronto offers something like Colborne and Connolly + +, on the theory that Connolly can serve as 2C next year (an upgrade on Bonino and Cogliano), and Colborne can develop into that role a bit more slowly.

(The problem, from an outsider's perspective, seems to be less the 2C thing than the other parts o the package, which I wouldn't imagine hold a lot of value to Anaheim.
Colborne isn't really offering us anything that we don't already have in the pipeline. The idea of using Connolly as a stop gap has come up before, and was liked, but obviously not someone you'd move Ryan to land.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 11:58 AM
  #53
dfunk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 373
vCash: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Connolly probably is a 2C, no? He's just not young / cheap / consistently healthy enough to make sense going forward for the Ducks.

When he plays, he's a pretty good player, but I can't imagine that he can hold a lot of value in a trade because of his injury concerns.

EDIT: To be clear, I get your point, and I don't disagree--but what about a situation where Toronto offers something like Colborne and Connolly + +, on the theory that Connolly can serve as 2C next year (an upgrade on Bonino and Cogliano), and Colborne can develop into that role a bit more slowly.

(The problem, from an outsider's perspective, seems to be less the 2C thing than the other parts o the package, which I wouldn't imagine hold a lot of value to Anaheim.
When he's healthy he is, but i agree that's the catch and probably a deal breaker. but jeez if they took Jason Blake off our hands who knows

dfunk is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 11:58 AM
  #54
Emerald Duck
Registered User
 
Emerald Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
If the Flyers don't get Parise, that won't affect Ryan's trade value to them. That is the definition of "wishful thinking."
Nor will it affect the Ducks' apparent needs if we make a trade with Philly.

Most Ducks fans have written off Philly as a trade partner when it became clear that Schenn/Couts are off the table. No hard feelings, but we will either move on with someone else or keep Ryan.

"Wishful thinking" is expecting that Ryan will be traded to Philly for the parts that Holmgren wants to part with, whether or not the Ducks are interested, because Ryan commented on his desire to play in Philly one day.

Emerald Duck is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 11:59 AM
  #55
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
We should really keep saying "very good young #2C". Teams that don't have their own versions of Schenn/Couturier/Stepan or aren't willing to move them should not expect to receive great reviews.
So something like these are the minimum starting points for discussion, with the rest of the deal varying depending on the quality / age / projection of the piece?

Quote:
Boston - Krejci
Buffalo - Hodgson
Montreal - Eller [a stretch]
Ottawa - Zibanejad
Toronto - ?

New Jersey - ?
NY Islanders - Strome (too far off?)
NY Rangers - Stepan
Philadelphia - Schenn or Couturier
Pittsburgh - ????

Carolina - ?
Florida - Bjugstad?
Winnipeg - Burmistov
Tampa Bay - ?
Washington - Johansson?

Chicago - ?
Columbus - Brassard or Johansen
Detroit - Filppula [?]
Nashville - C. Smith or Colin Wilson (W/C)
St. Louis - Berglund, Oshie, etc.

Colorado - ? [Addressed at length in the past]
Calgary - Backlund (a stretch?)
Edmonton - ?
Minnesota - ?
Vancouver - ?

Dallas - ?
LA Kings - Not a likely trading partner
Phoenix - ?
San Jose - Pavelski?
Is it just my ignorance, or are there relatively few "good" fits in the Western Conference?


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 07-03-2012 at 12:41 PM.
Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:02 PM
  #56
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
When he's healthy he is, but i agree that's the catch and probably a deal breaker. but jeez if they took Jason Blake off our hands who knows
You took Giggy off of ours. We knew what we were getting. Hint: It's Hiller!

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:04 PM
  #57
Unagi
Registered User
 
Unagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
So something like these are the minimum starting points for discussion, with the rest of the deal varying depending on the quality / age / projection of the piece?



Is it just my ignorance, or are there relatively few "good" fits in the Western Conference?
That list is a good idea actually. And I believe Ryan will be traded to the Eastern Conference to prevent him from biting us in the ass too hard

Unagi is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:05 PM
  #58
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
So something like these are the minimum starting points for discussion, with the rest of the deal varying depending on the quality / age / projection of the piece?



Is it just my ignorance, or are there relatively few "good" fits in the Western Conference?
People on this board need to stop thinking Wilson is Nashville's top young center. He's mostly a winger. Smith is the guy that leans toward center.

Edit: Also, I don't think Eller would get it done. The only other option just isn't going to be considered. I think it's best just to say Montreal is a bad fit.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:07 PM
  #59
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
If the Flyers don't get Parise, that won't affect Ryan's trade value to them. That is the definition of "wishful thinking."
Of course, it does. That's painfully obvious. As long as there's decent chance they are getting Parise, Ryan's subjective value to them is severely limited. They most likely don't want both. And why would they give up any of the potentially required valuable assets for Ryan, when there's a way to get the other guy for free?

Vipers31 is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:07 PM
  #60
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
People on this board need to stop thinking Wilson is Nashville's top young center. He's mostly a winger. Smith is the guy that leans toward center.

Edit: Also, I don't think Eller would get it done. The only other option just isn't going to be considered. I think it's best just to say Montreal is a bad fit.
Point taken.

It seems to me that there are a few guys on that list, which I edited, that end up on the wing--Burmistrov is another, and I thought, at one point, that's where Zibanejad was projected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:08 PM
  #61
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Also, according to Portzline, when Columbus asked about Ryan, they were told it was Johansen or bust. Take Brassard out.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:09 PM
  #62
Unagi
Registered User
 
Unagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,407
vCash: 500
If the Sharks would call for Ryan, I believe the Ducks would want Couture.

Unagi is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:10 PM
  #63
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Point taken.

It seems to me that there are a few guys on that list, which I edited, that end up on the wing--Burmistrov is another, and I thought, at one point, that's where Zibanejad was projected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Zib is a C/W like Craig Smith. I believe he's just as versatile, but I could be wrong.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #64
glasgow26
Registered User
 
glasgow26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
If the Sharks would call for Ryan, I believe the Ducks would want Couture.
Definitely. Which is why I don't expect SJ to land Ryan or even seriously discuss it, despite the fact that he's exactly what the team needs. Pavelski+ would probably be fair value, but I have no doubt the Ducks would be demanding Couture. Younger and more upside.

glasgow26 is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:20 PM
  #65
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,768
vCash: 500
I wonder if in a potential Ottawa trade, Turris' name has come up. Not sure Ottawa would want to move him, but he fits the bill for Anaheim. I have a feeling Ottawa would rather move Zibanejad than Turris though. In fact, I could see Turris being a non-starter for the Sens.


Last edited by DG: 07-03-2012 at 12:37 PM.
DG is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:32 PM
  #66
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
Any interest from Ducks nation?

To Toronto:
Bobby Ryan (RW/LW)

To Anaheim:
Nikolai Kulemin (RW/LW)
Tyler Bozak (C)
Stuart Percy (D)
2nd Round Pick (2013)

Anaheim gets...

Kulemin: Top 6 Russian power forward, tremendously reliable defensively and consistent effort.
Bozak: Decent 2nd line centre/great 3rd line centre, good skill set, penalty killer.
Percy: 2011 draft pick (1st round), high IQ, very poised, 2nd pairing upside.
2nd Round Pick (2013): Should be in the 40-50 range, very deep draft.

You can point at Kulemin's lack of offensive production this past season, I've watched him for years and he'll bounce back to a 55+ point forward.
ROFLMFAO. Are you serious about Kulemin??? If you have "watched him for years" then you of all people should know that he's only had MORE
than 36 points ONCE in his rather underwhelming career. It's highly unlikely that he suddenly becomes a perennial 55-60 point player when every year but one he has been a sub 40 point player. He's probably one of if not the worst possible 2nd line winger in the entire league. He's at best a below average 3rd liner on a playoff team. I guess that because he was in the Leafs top 6 the past 3 years that we really shouldn't be surprised they have been a lottery team each of those years.

phlocky is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:32 PM
  #67
Emerald Duck
Registered User
 
Emerald Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
So something like these are the minimum starting points for discussion, with the rest of the deal varying depending on the quality / age / projection of the piece?

Is it just my ignorance, or are there relatively few "good" fits in the Western Conference?
Nice list, thanks. Pavelski from San Jose and Filppula from Detroit have been the other two names that various fan bases have offered as part of proposals.

Emerald Duck is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:42 PM
  #68
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Nice list, thanks. Pavelski from San Jose and Filppula from Detroit have been the other two names that various fan bases have offered as part of proposals.
I've made the changes.

San Jose is tricky. I do not believe they would swap Couture for Ryan straight up, so that seems a non-starter. They might be open to Pavelski, but I assumed the Ducks would want someone a bit younger (Pavelski turns 28 this summer).

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:49 PM
  #69
allan5oh
#moneypushups
 
allan5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,066
vCash: 50
How about:

To the Jets:

Bobby Ryan


To the Ducks:

Bryan Little
Our 2013 2nd rd
Chicago 2013 2nd rd
Plus.....?

Little was 42nd in points for centers last year. Good shot, and can distribute the puck. He's 24 with a salary of $3 mil and a cap hit of $2.4 mil next year. He's an RFA at the end of next year. He's averaged 45 points in the past 4 years.

allan5oh is online now  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:51 PM
  #70
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
ROFLMFAO. Are you serious about Kulemin??? If you have "watched him for years" then you of all people should know that he's only had MORE
than 36 points ONCE in his rather underwhelming career. It's highly unlikely that he suddenly becomes a perennial 55-60 point player when every year but one he has been a sub 40 point player. He's probably one of if not the worst possible 2nd line winger in the entire league. He's at best a below average 3rd liner on a playoff team. I guess that because he was in the Leafs top 6 the past 3 years that we really shouldn't be surprised they have been a lottery team each of those years.
clearly have no idea what your talking about

TML g u n n e R s* is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:52 PM
  #71
KpopandHockey
HFBoards Sponsor
 
KpopandHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,967
vCash: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I've made the changes.

San Jose is tricky. I do not believe they would swap Couture for Ryan straight up, so that seems a non-starter. They might be open to Pavelski, but I assumed the Ducks would want someone a bit younger (Pavelski turns 28 this summer).
The funny thing is that SJ and Ducks are perfect trade partners, but the fact that they are both in the Pacific I can't see any trade happening. Both team's GMs will want to "win" the trade too much that nothing will happen.

KpopandHockey is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 12:58 PM
  #72
Doug Gilmour
Leafer Since '95
 
Doug Gilmour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Essex County
Country: Mexico
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
If the Sharks would call for Ryan, I believe the Ducks would want Couture.
No doubt about it that would be the starting blocks of a trade with SJ. Plus, who wouldn't want Couture?

How would this one work from the Ducks POV?
Kadri (7th overall pick in 2009) + Percy (25th overall pick in 2011) + MacArthur (apparently was worth a 1st at the dealine) + 2nd pick in 2013 for Ryan + 4th pick in 2013

Doug Gilmour is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 01:00 PM
  #73
PuqTalk
@PuqOT on Twitter
 
PuqTalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Gilmour View Post
No doubt about it that would be the starting blocks of a trade with SJ. Plus, who wouldn't want Couture?

How would this one work from the Ducks POV?
Kadri (7th overall pick in 2009) + Percy (25th overall pick in 2011) + MacArthur (apparently was worth a 1st at the dealine) + 2nd pick in 2013 for Ryan + 4th pick in 2013


Compare Couture to your return.

PuqTalk is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #74
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Gilmour View Post
No doubt about it that would be the starting blocks of a trade with SJ. Plus, who wouldn't want Couture?

How would this one work from the Ducks POV?
Kadri (7th overall pick in 2009) + Percy (25th overall pick in 2011) + MacArthur (apparently was worth a 1st at the dealine) + 2nd pick in 2013 for Ryan + 4th pick in 2013
My sense is that defensive prospects are not a major priority.

I also think that the formula for any Toronto offer is basically this:

Anaheim's choice of Kadri or Colborne (future 2C / 2nd line wing prospect)
+
Anaheim's choice of Bozak or Connolly (stop-gap 2C)
+
Anaheim's choice of Kulemin or MacArthur (2nd / 3rd line LW)

If Anaheim fans can't construct an acceptable deal out of that, then I don't see how Toronto has the assets to get a deal done. If Toronto had the kind of 2C / 1B center prospect Anaheim was looking for, they wouldn't need to fret about their own future down the middle. It seems like the Leafs can offer more depth than other teams, but less top-end talent back at positions of need.

I'm also not sure why Ryan is needed in Toronto. Truly, what's the plan there? A top-6 composed entirely of wingers?

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #75
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
ROFLMFAO. Are you serious about Kulemin??? If you have "watched him for years" then you of all people should know that he's only had MORE
than 36 points ONCE in his rather underwhelming career. It's highly unlikely that he suddenly becomes a perennial 55-60 point player when every year but one he has been a sub 40 point player. He's probably one of if not the worst possible 2nd line winger in the entire league. He's at best a below average 3rd liner on a playoff team. I guess that because he was in the Leafs top 6 the past 3 years that we really shouldn't be surprised they have been a lottery team each of those years.
As a Ranger fan and Leaf hater, I think that's a totally erroneous account of Kulemin. Kulemin is probably the best all-around forward the Leafs have. He's an excellent defensive forward, and he certainly has the potential to put up 50-55 points playing on a team that isn't as bad as the Leafs.

To call him one of the worst 2nd liners in the league is just ridiculous. He's an above average second line player on any good team.

I would trade Dubinsky for Kulemin in a heartbeat as a Ranger fan.

That said, he's not really what the Ducks are looking for.

NYR Sting is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.