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Old
07-03-2012, 09:37 AM
  #26
hockeydoug
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I'm not expecting it, but if the Hawks land both, or just Suter, I think trading Seabrook for a center should be considered. He's one of the few players that could land a good one and both Suter and Seabrook offset some of each other's cost-effectiveness.

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07-03-2012, 09:41 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
I'm not expecting it, but if the Hawks land both, or just Suter, I think trading Seabrook for a center should be considered. He's one of the few players that could land a good one and both Suter and Seabrook offset some of each other's cost-effectiveness.
No on so many levels. He is our only phsyical defensemen that will lay a hit and play to his size. This would just be absolutely awful.

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07-03-2012, 09:46 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CPHawksFan View Post
I know it's just speculation, but maybe Parise or Suter or both really WANT to play in Chicago and might be willing to take a little less money to do so.

It would be a pipedream to sign both of them, but I don't think it's unrealistic to sign one of them to a contract.
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
The Hawks may not get Parise but clearly there's not a zero chance, in fact it appears there may be as good as a 50% chance.
I'm sure they would like to play in Chicago. In all of those player surveys Chicago always seems to come up as one of the most sought after places to play, but the fact is money is the biggest priority for these guys and with our current cap situation we can't compete with some of the other teams that are bidding for these two. If the money was even across the board and everyone was offering the same amounts then yeah, I could see us having a good shot at landing one of them but as it stands now I think it might as well be a 0% chance.

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07-03-2012, 09:48 AM
  #29
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Trade Seabrook? No no no! If we land Suter I'd more rather look into trading Keith.

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07-03-2012, 09:50 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MadhouseOnMadison View Post
I'm sure they would like to play in Chicago. In all of those player surveys Chicago always seems to come up as one of the most sought after places to play, but the fact is money is the biggest priority for these guys and with our current cap situation we can't compete with some of the other teams that are bidding for these two. If the money was even across the board and everyone was offering the same amounts then yeah, I could see us having a good shot at landing one of them but as it stands now I think it might as well be a 0% chance.
Clearly thats not true if they are in his final few teams. Its been rumored the offer is 100 mil for 12-13 years from the Hawks. Parise isn't going to get $120 mil for 10 years from some team.

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07-03-2012, 09:51 AM
  #31
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Can you imagine how soft that defense would be? Keith, Suter, Leddy, Oduya, Hammer, Brookbank, and Motnador would combine for like 400 hits.

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07-03-2012, 10:01 AM
  #32
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I like Seabrook, but I don't think he's a beast physically. He has the most value at the blueline in my opinion and would be about the only player a team in the West might give up a quality center for. I just don't see any of the wings really landing the center the Hawks need and the way the team is constructed right now, I think a good 2 way center does more for the Hawks rather than having Suter and Seabrook and their combined cap hits.

If they could land the center a different way, I would love to see it, but I'm skeptical prospects, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, or Keith would lure a WC gm (or most gms) into giving up a good center. I would prefer to keep Keith long term anyway.

Anyway, I want the center more than I want Seabrook, and trading Brent seems like it might be one of the best of the bad options available to addressing that need.

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07-03-2012, 10:04 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
I like Seabrook, but I don't think he's a beast physically. He has the most value at the blueline in my opinion and would be about the only player a team in the West might give up a quality center for. I just don't see any of the wings really landing the center the Hawks need and the way the team is constructed right now, I think a good 2 way center does more for the Hawks rather than having Suter and Seabrook and their combined cap hits.

If they could land the center a different way, I would love to see it, but I'm skeptical prospects, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, or Keith would lure a WC gm (or most gms) into giving up a good center. I would prefer to keep Keith long term anyway.

Anyway, I want the center more than I want Seabrook, and trading Brent seems like it might be one of the best of the bad options available to addressing that need.

I'm not saying he is a beast phsyically in general, but more so that the rest of our blueline would be Charmin soft. Not to mention he was by far our most consistent dman last year, and arguably the year before as well. That, and he is a great cap hit. Well, look at what guys like Wiz got recently.

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07-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Clearly thats not true if they are in his final few teams. Its been rumored the offer is 100 mil for 12-13 years from the Hawks. Parise isn't going to get $120 mil for 10 years from some team.
Well rumors are rumors and we have no way of knowing what astronomical amounts teams are throwing at him. I'm simply looking at the teams in the running and the cap space they have available to take on whatever ridiculous salary he ends up with. Every other team in on him right now has more money to throw at him than we do and aside from Minnesota all of those teams also have the same or better chance of winning as us.

I can see why Parise would seriously consider Chicago but realistically I just don't see it happening. I'm pretty sure he stays a Devil.

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07-03-2012, 10:09 AM
  #35
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Yea, Seabrook is by far more valuable to our team from a skill set standpoint if Suter is brought in. He's also the better player in my opinion and I Like his contract MUCH more than Duncan's.

Keith would bring back big value as well with his cap hit being so low. Something like Keith +for Statsny and Hedja would be great.

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07-03-2012, 10:12 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Yea, Seabrook is by far more valuable to our team from a skill set standpoint if Suter is brought in. He's also the better player in my opinion and I Like his contract MUCH more than Duncan's.

Keith would bring back big value as well with his cap hit being so low. Something like Keith +for Statsny and Hedja would be great.
Yeah, I'd move Keith before Seabrook as well... Although, I'd prefer to not move either. People always throw out Edmonton's name as well, and in theory it makes sense... Although I think the angle of him and where he grew up is overblown.

Regardless, it's never happening.

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07-03-2012, 10:13 AM
  #37
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I'm not saying he is a beast phsyically in general, but more so that the rest of our blueline would be Charmin soft. Not to mention he was by far our most consistent dman last year, and arguably the year before as well. That, and he is a great cap hit. Well, look at what guys like Wiz got recently.
Just to be clear, I absolutely don't want him traded unless it's for a quality center. His cap hit is one of the reason he commands so much value and why I think he's the one that gets the most in return. With Montador, Brookbank, the progressing Olsen, and a bunch of larger or more abrasive bodies coming into the fold the next couple seasons, I think Seabrook is the best chance to land a more permanent solution to the 2nd line center without taking the team backwards in too many other areas. The size and physical attributes of the team are improving, but an internal solution to the 2nd line center still seems at least a couple years off.

Anyway, just speculating about Suter and the team because it's July. My opinion could change in September depending on how all the younger guys are moving along.

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07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #38
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I don't think we can ever expect Olsen to be more than a second pairing guy. Look at Suter and who he was paired with, Weber. Is Weber more like Searbook or Keith? It doesn't matter who has more value, if that were the case you'd trade Toews. It matters the talent make up of your team and balancing the many different skill sets players bring.

Seabrook-Suter is much better than Keith-Suter.

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07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #39
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To me, Seabrook is more important to this team than a #2C. I'd rather wait a year or two and hope McNeil, or one of the other prospects can fill that void themself or by pushing Bolland to the 2nd line.

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07-03-2012, 10:39 AM
  #40
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Well, I'm essentially done with work for the day other than fielding phone calls until 3:00, so I'm probably going to just be browsing the interwebs to find out about Parise news all day.

So.... yay?

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07-03-2012, 10:52 AM
  #41
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I am surprised they are going after Parise...Suter we knew they were hot after. Obnviously Rocky gavethe go ahwad to splash big with the $$$$ (cry me a river if he ever again compalins about the Hawks not making money) --and the get the cap hits down obviously it has to be 12-13 yr deals not merely 10 ...As for up front signing bonuses Wirtz is very rich and can afford the cash outlays...So it is only upto both o decide if they want to play in Chicago...Suter must be waitoing for Parise's decision because maybe if the money is about equal he would rather join Parise on some perceived uberteam together rather than split off ..so maybe Chicago realizing this was a 2 or nothing gambit decided to go all in and splash for all the marbles..
Worry about the cap fit AFTER the coup if successful...

THE quetions are of course: i) IS THE OVERPAY WORTH IT?
and ii) once acquired will the 2 "professionals" join the "fatcats" club that pervades the Blackhawks over the past 2 years since the Cup win as per 2 first round exits,and less than consistent work efforts in the reg season such as playing so few
complete 60 minute games where they know their vaunted talent can win games with a mere 15 minutes of playing hard and coasting the other minutes in a game --or sometimes just not even bothering to show up the entire game (witnes those 2 embarassing fiasco losses to EDM last year)...or does the braintrust running the Blackhawks think that parise and Suter are different -are actually professionals with pride who would never just cheque cash for 75% of a game let alone an entire game?

THe questions individually are:

A. Suter ---without a d-partner as good as Weber and a goalie as good a Rinne --can he even reproduce his Nashville level of comptence --ie. 45-50 pts and +15-+20stats?

B. Parise --- will he stay around ONLY the 69-70 pts level or explode to much higher totals on the more gifted and offensively producrtive (except in playoffs) Blackhawks team? IF the former then it sure looks like a huge huge overpay..If he adds 20 pts and hits 40 goals THEN maybe not an overpay...
The -5 of last year must be an abertation as he is +57 lifetime in the NHL in the reg season (502 GP reg season) --so this better than kane 2-way player (perception) is ONLY +9.31 in Es per each 82 games ...Patrick kane is +23 in 399 reg season Nhl games (+4.726 for each 82 GP ) --this despite Kane not playing either in a defense first trap system like NJ had for so many years or with a "real" NHL #1 goalie and HOF'er in net...

So how exactly again is Parise worth so many more $$$$ than kane? It seems hard worth the "SPLASH" out;ay exceot as a MARKETING COUP ...BUT if it is PARISE and SUTER--kane has to go anyways --so are we just going sideways?

IT is NOT like we were getting REAL "franchie" players (I fail to see how Suter or Parise are that --or Kane for that matter...none of these are in the Crosby/Malkin class of talent/production --but we KNOW you must OVERPAY to get the top UFA's in any UFA clas to make the big splash.

Is it all going to guarantee team improvement and success..YOU cannot say it will..
Is it worth it?

Well- you can say the team needed some shake-up/changes because we did not win a cup the last 2 years..However change for the sake of change without addressing real NEEDS : i) 2nd line C; ii) another to face-off centre --if not the 2C then in the bottom2 lines iii) top 2 pairing physical D-man --Suter plays physucal but without Weber might not be as effective AND he does not block shots like Hammer does....
He could "regress"! iv) better PP and PK players...

Remains to be seen if Parise/Suter help these specialty areas..


CONCLUSION: BIG SPLASH = BIG RISKS ...if they FAIL to live upto the big bucks --WHO YA GONNA BLAME, ROCKY? It is not the players fault that idiot GM's/Top brass cannot stop themelves from lunatic overpaying for top UFA's ....but at the very least it will put a stop to the ludicrous "the Blackhawks are still not making money" cries you trot out to mke the fans feel guilty that they are not paying enough into your coffers...So go agead make the fans happy with the LOOK WE CAN OVERSPEND WITH THE BEST OF THEM --but the REAL FANS will judge this gambit on the RESULTS obtained..IF it FAILS to produce the results hoped for then we get stuck with12-13 year albatross contracts--todays's hyped "god-like" heroes could be tomorrow's fat cat -why try very hard disappointmets..BIG HUGE RISKS...logic out the window..

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07-03-2012, 10:55 AM
  #42
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I don't have a problem with fat cats, personally.

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07-03-2012, 11:11 AM
  #43
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I don't have a problem with fat cats, personally.
Good to know, maybe you can house sit my cat Max then.

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07-03-2012, 11:38 AM
  #44
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For..?

I think it would have to be Hossa or Kane moved. I'm not sure how movable Hossa is right now with the concussion. And I personally would rather keep him over Kane anyway. He's a more complete player.

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We could make space for both by dumping Hammer, Frolik, and Montador...assuming we're only getting picks back (i.e. no one who is going to add salary). We'd be right up against the cap though.

anyway...i doubt we get either of P or S...let alone both of them.
I know, I just say if something like this happens with less than 1% of a chance... Hossa would be the guy we trade.

Age, health concerns are the reasons why.

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07-03-2012, 11:42 AM
  #45
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Well rumors are rumors and we have no way of knowing what astronomical amounts teams are throwing at him. I'm simply looking at the teams in the running and the cap space they have available to take on whatever ridiculous salary he ends up with. Every other team in on him right now has more money to throw at him than we do and aside from Minnesota all of those teams also have the same or better chance of winning as us.

I can see why Parise would seriously consider Chicago but realistically I just don't see it happening. I'm pretty sure he stays a Devil.
Cap space is one thing, having the money to pay them are another.

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07-03-2012, 11:44 AM
  #46
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I believe Jacek is full of it, but interesting read

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/John-...erge/128/45402

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07-03-2012, 11:45 AM
  #47
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JJ doesn't nothing that any of us couldn't do. He looks at the Hawks roster/organization and makes educated guesses.

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07-03-2012, 11:46 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I know, I just say if something like this happens with less than 1% of a chance... Hossa would be the guy we trade.

Age, health concerns are the reasons why.
But he might end up being alright...being able to come back again. And he's definitely one of our best players. We should be slow to trade him...especially if we can start of by dumping Frolik and Montador...and maybe Hammer (only if we got Suter).

I would not be at all in favour of trading Hossa right now.

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07-03-2012, 11:52 AM
  #49
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But he might end up being alright...being able to come back again. And he's definitely one of our best players. We should be slow to trade him...especially if we can start of by dumping Frolik and Montador...and maybe Hammer (only if we got Suter).

I would not be at all in favour of trading Hossa right now.
hell no to trade Hossa now, that wasn't my point.

If we sign both, which won't happen - and we need more cap space than what we free up with Hjammer, Montador, Stalberg & Frolik ... Hossa would be the guy we should trade, not Kane.

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07-03-2012, 11:59 AM
  #50
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hell no to trade Hossa now, that wasn't my point.

If we sign both, which won't happen - and we need more cap space than what we free up with Hjammer, Montador, Stalberg & Frolik ... Hossa would be the guy we should trade, not Kane.
Removing Hammer, Frolik, and Montador gives us space of $16,338,206. We should be able to get both for that.

Of course...we would do so knowing that we are on a collision course with catastrophe when ELCs start to expire and when Toews and Kane's contracts expire 3 yrs from now. If someone stepped up onto the 3rd line, maybe Bolland and his $3.3m could be moved.

anyway...I don't want to consider the details too much. It will prevent upset feelings if/when we get neither of P or S.

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