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Orange County Nights: The Ballad of Grumpy Bobby [All Bobby Ryan discussion | Part V]

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Old
07-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Of course, it does. That's painfully obvious. As long as there's decent chance they are getting Parise, Ryan's subjective value to them is severely limited. They most likely don't want both. And why would they give up any of the potentially required valuable assets for Ryan, when there's a way to get the other guy for free?
No, it really isn't. Ryan was the one who said Philly would be a good fit for him. This is not a situation in which you have a team panting to trade for a guy. They have a value on Ryan (which, apparently, includes Voracek and/or Read and a 1st, maybe a defenseman, too, but NOT Schenn or Couturier). That will change very little, if at all, after Parise signs. Ryan is under contract and not UFA for three years. It's not like he's 2nd or 3rd on a list of free agents.

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07-03-2012, 01:10 PM
  #77
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No, it really isn't. Ryan was the one who said Philly would be a good fit for him. This is not a situation in which you have a team panting to trade for a guy. They have a value on Ryan (which, apparently, includes Voracek and/or Read and a 1st, maybe a defenseman, too, but NOT Schenn or Couturier). That will change very little, if at all, after Parise signs. Ryan is under contract and not UFA for three years. It's not like he's 2nd or 3rd on a list of free agents.
As a Flyers fan, I can easily see how Parise's decision would cause the Flyers to alter their deal.

Let's call it, "A Disaster in Three Acts"

Act I: Parise signs with Pittsburgh.

Act II: The Rangers, seeing Parise signs with Pittsburgh, finally cave an include Kreider in a package for Nash, securing his services.

Act III: Ed Snider / Paul Holmgren seeing two division rivals making major moves on the same day, panic and agree to send the Brothers Schenn westward for Ryan and a 2nd, or something to that effect.

There are variations on this theme--the Rangers offer Stepan for Ryan instead of Kreider for Nash, and the Flyers react by including Schenn, etc.

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07-03-2012, 01:14 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Emerald Duck View Post
Nor will it affect the Ducks' apparent needs if we make a trade with Philly.
This is true. You don't have to trade Ryan unless he pulls a Lindros.


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Most Ducks fans have written off Philly as a trade partner when it became clear that Schenn/Couts are off the table. No hard feelings, but we will either move on with someone else or keep Ryan.
Maybe, not definitely.


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"Wishful thinking" is expecting that Ryan will be traded to Philly for the parts that Holmgren wants to part with, whether or not the Ducks are interested, because Ryan commented on his desire to play in Philly one day.
It has nothing to do with the desire to play in Philly vs. anywhere else. It's just that he's disgruntled and vocal about it, and his value will be slightly less than it would be otherwise. Like I said, the Ducks do not have to deal him unless he holds out. Still, they have no leverage over anyone else at this point.

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07-03-2012, 01:15 PM
  #79
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It has nothing to do with the desire to play in Philly vs. anywhere else. It's just that he's disgruntled and vocal about it, and his value will be slightly less than it would be otherwise.
I'm sorry, but no. This isn't HFboards, it's the real world. People are going to have to give up what they were always going to have to give up.

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07-03-2012, 01:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I'm sorry, but no. This isn't HFboards, it's the real world. People are going to have to give up what they were always going to have to give up.
So, you don't think that a player expressing desire to leave downs their trade value at all?

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07-03-2012, 01:18 PM
  #81
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Bobby was telling someone on twitter yesterday that he'd like to stay and win a cup with the Ducks.

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07-03-2012, 01:19 PM
  #82
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So, you don't think that a player expressing desire to leave downs their trade value at all?
If you've been paying attention to all the news that's came out since that horribly biased article was released at the deadline, all the news has been that there isn't a trade demand at all, from Ryan or his camp. At all.

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07-03-2012, 01:19 PM
  #83
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I'm also not sure why Ryan is needed in Toronto. Truly, what's the plan there? A top-6 composed entirely of wingers?
There's also the issue of Ryan and Carlyle not getting along.

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07-03-2012, 01:21 PM
  #84
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So, you don't think that a player expressing desire to leave downs their trade value at all?
I think it is somewhere in between what (many) Anaheim fans believe and what (too many) Flyers fans believe.

Ryan does not have a NTC, so he really can't control where he goes. If he was in Nash's position, then I think the Ducks would be significantly compromised by his comments. He's not.

If Ryan is moved, he will attract significant offers from a number of teams, including some, like the Rangers, who might be willing to part with assets that the Flyers are unwilling or unable to match.

That said, I think that some of the predictions about the return Ryan will generate are a bit over the top. I can't see the Flyers adding a roster forward to Couturier or Schenn, for example, even if they panic after Parise and Nash become unavailable.

But, then again, I still don't understand why Carolina offered the deal they did to Pittsburgh, which was pretty far out of line with previous packages.

I think the Ducks will get the best return for Ryan in the 72 hours or so after Parise signs--particularly if Nash is dealt soon afterward.

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07-03-2012, 01:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
If you've been paying attention to all the news that's came out since that horribly biased article was released at the deadline, all the news has been that there isn't a trade demand at all, from Ryan or his camp. At all.
I'm speaking more in general, because your comment seemed to cover more ground than just Bobby Ryan's situation. But if that is what you meant specifically then that's fine.

I do think that if a player were to go to the media and say he wanted a trade,a truly disgruntled situation, it downs his value because potential suitors no buy the "we can always just keep him" argument for lowballing. In addition to showing the player as a bit of a diva.

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07-03-2012, 01:24 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
As a Flyers fan, I can easily see how Parise's decision would cause the Flyers to alter their deal.

Let's call it, "A Disaster in Three Acts"

Act I: Parise signs with Pittsburgh.

Act II: The Rangers, seeing Parise signs with Pittsburgh, finally cave an include Kreider in a package for Nash, securing his services.

Act III: Ed Snider / Paul Holmgren seeing two division rivals making major moves on the same day, panic and agree to send the Brothers Schenn westward for Ryan and a 2nd, or something to that effect.

There are variations on this theme--the Rangers offer Stepan for Ryan instead of Kreider for Nash, and the Flyers react by including Schenn, etc.
I don't see it playing out that way, especially because a lot of the reporting in Philly says that he wants one or both of Suter/Weber.

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07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
  #87
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I don't see it playing out that way, especially because a lot of the reporting in Philly says that he wants one or both of Suter/Weber.
Suter is irrelevant--he has the Flyers offer.

Weber is only relevant if he's put on the trading block. If that's true, then I agree--I think the Flyers would save their assets.

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07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
  #88
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From Isles, pick one from each row:

2013 1st / Niederreiter / Strome

Grabner / Bailey

Kabonov / Lee / Poulin / Nilsson

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07-03-2012, 01:27 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
As a Flyers fan, I can easily see how Parise's decision would cause the Flyers to alter their deal.

Let's call it, "A Disaster in Three Acts"

Act I: Parise signs with Pittsburgh.

Act II: The Rangers, seeing Parise signs with Pittsburgh, finally cave an include Kreider in a package for Nash, securing his services.

Act III: Ed Snider / Paul Holmgren seeing two division rivals making major moves on the same day, panic and agree to send the Brothers Schenn westward for Ryan and a 2nd, or something to that effect.

There are variations on this theme--the Rangers offer Stepan for Ryan instead of Kreider for Nash, and the Flyers react by including Schenn, etc.
Christmas would come early for us...

Generally I'd love a deal involving Ryan for Schenn Brothers to happen. Naturally more assets from both sides would have to get added. And please lets not go there Was just daydreaming.

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07-03-2012, 01:32 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I'm sorry, but no. This isn't HFboards, it's the real world. People are going to have to give up what they were always going to have to give up.
In the real world, that happens. As I pointed out before with the Lindros situation in 2001, do you think he (a 1.36 career PPG at that point) was only worth Kim Johnsson, Pavel Brendl, and Jan Hlavac? It depends on how long this situation drags out and how nasty it gets. The Ducks may never have to trade Ryan at all, but his trade value right now is slightly less than it was two weeks ago. It's a question of how much his current team values him.

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07-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #91
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But, then again, I still don't understand why Carolina offered the deal they did to Pittsburgh, which was pretty far out of line with previous packages.
It really wasn't. The only part that surprised me is that they were willing to include the 8th overall as opposed to a 1st in 2013, but that may be due to the relative uneasiness with this year's draft class that some scouts and GMs expressed. It was in the same mold as the return you gave us for Pronger - albeit we got a bit more, but it was also Pronger - or what Burns got in the same situation.

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07-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #92
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Would ya take Filppula as the starting point? Or does the starting piece have to be younger than Bobby?

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07-03-2012, 01:35 PM
  #93
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Suter is irrelevant--he has the Flyers offer.

Weber is only relevant if he's put on the trading block. If that's true, then I agree--I think the Flyers would save their assets.
It's relevant in the sense that Holmgren realizes he needs a big-time defender, not just a "name" to acquire this offseason. The Flyers made the second round of the playoffs and have no trouble getting fans to go to games. They don't need to make a splash; they need to address some needs.

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07-03-2012, 01:37 PM
  #94
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Would ya take Filppula as the starting point? Or does the starting piece have to be younger than Bobby?
re-signed Fillpula could be good startpoint...

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07-03-2012, 01:39 PM
  #95
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In the real world, that happens. As I pointed out before with the Lindros situation in 2001, do you think he (a 1.36 career PPG at that point) was only worth Kim Johnsson, Pavel Brendl, and Jan Hlavac? It depends on how long this situation drags out and how nasty it gets. The Ducks may never have to trade Ryan at all, but his trade value right now is slightly less than it was two weeks ago. It's a question of how much his current team values him.
The nastiest it has gotten was in the interview. Ryan's comments since then have involved a lot of backpedaling and damage control. I also doubt that he'd have given Schultz as much **** as he did if he thought there was a chance that he was going to be teammates with him in a matter of weeks.

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07-03-2012, 01:40 PM
  #96
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It's relevant in the sense that Holmgren realizes he needs a big-time defender, not just a "name" to acquire this offseason. The Flyers made the second round of the playoffs and have no trouble getting fans to go to games. They don't need to make a splash; they need to address some needs.
The Flyers have already made the offer to Suter. They can accommodate his cap hit as well as those of Parise or, should he be acquired, Ryan.

That's why Suter is irrelevant to this conversation.

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07-03-2012, 01:42 PM
  #97
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Bobby was telling someone on twitter yesterday that he'd like to stay and win a cup with the Ducks.
Seems about normal that these types of posts get ignored.

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07-03-2012, 01:45 PM
  #98
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Seems about normal that these types of posts get ignored.
To play devil's advocate, he's not going to say he doesn't want to win a cup in Anaheim.

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07-03-2012, 01:47 PM
  #99
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To play devil's advocate, he's not going to say he doesn't want to win a cup in Anaheim.
He could have ignored the tweet, and its contrary to everyone saying he's demanding to play on Philly.

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07-03-2012, 01:48 PM
  #100
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The nastiest it has gotten was in the interview. Ryan's comments since then have involved a lot of backpedaling and damage control.
I would tend to agree. It seems much more like he feels hurt/disrespected because of the trade rumors that have dogged him than any serious ill will toward the Ducks' front office. The question is "Can we still work together in an effective manner, or would it be better to sever this relationship and give everyone a fresh start?" Lindros and Clarke were done. We don't know that Ryan and Murray are, or, if they are not, if they will be before his contract runs out. I would bet several paychecks that Ryan will not be a Duck sometime between today and three years from today, though.


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I also doubt that he'd have given Schultz as much **** as he did if he thought there was a chance that he was going to be teammates with him in a matter of weeks.
That seems like a stretch. There are 29 teams other then the Ducks in the league, so why would he censor himself? He doesn't seem like the overly cautious type when it comes to public comments.

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