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Free Agent Sit and Think Things Through Thoroughly (Matt Carle signed with Tampa Bay)

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07-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #151
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[QUOTE=toughfighter83;52023433]in all fairness, i honestly dont know what the flyers are getting out of courts or schenn because they were great one season but it doesnt mean they are going to great players because they are young and they can hit bumps and not show up."


I'm going to address a few points here, not all made by you, so I apologize if I'm harder to follow then normal Jvr was pretty much a non-factor this year, so I'm ok without him. Is Jagr gone 100%? If so, that changes things a little, but not alot imo. I personally believe that Shenn, Coutier, Voracek, Simmonds, and Read will be BETTER then last year, all of them. However, that is only my opinion, so I can see your logic with maybe not being so confident with them. But do we NEED Parise or Weber too take us to the top? I don't think we do. I think we need a solid Bryzgalov which we will get imo, not stellar maybe, but solid, and we need a # 1-2 D-man. Just my 2 cents though.

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07-03-2012, 01:38 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice

Down to two. Chicago and Newark.
Expand
one guy says the hawks are out of it, the other guy says they are a front runner

makes sense

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07-03-2012, 01:42 PM
  #153
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one guy says the hawks are out of it, the other guy says they are a front runner

makes sense
The only thing I'll say is this--in all the tweets and speculation from various beat writers, we never seem to be one of two or three teams. We are always on the six team super list, but never in the "either-or" updates.

I don't think our own beat writers believe the Flyers have a serious shot at Parise, but I don't think they have been told they are definitively out either.

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07-03-2012, 01:43 PM
  #154
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this is what I was reffering to. If we dont get Parise or Suter I really would not be shocked if Holmgren waits 2 minutes after recieving the news and makes a panic trade for Ryan or Nash. Then gives Carle a 7 year/50 million dollar contract with a full NTC.
We go rage then.

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07-03-2012, 01:48 PM
  #155
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Idk why everyone is labeling trading for Ryan a potential "panic trade". The way I see it is; any trade for Ryan that doesn't involve schenn or couturier makes this team better.

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07-03-2012, 01:51 PM
  #156
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Idk why everyone is labeling trading for Ryan a potential "panic trade". The way I see it is; any trade for Ryan that doesn't involve schenn or couturier makes this team better.
I include Ryan as a panic trade as the alleged asking price is pretty steep. The panic part is Holmgren caving to what Anaheim or (and? ) Columbus are asking for Ryan and Nash, respectively.

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07-03-2012, 01:51 PM
  #157
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Idk why everyone is labeling trading for Ryan a potential "panic trade". The way I see it is; any trade for Ryan that doesn't involve schenn or couturier makes this team better.
Voracek + Read + a draft pick probably doesn't make us better--though I don't think it is disastrous either.

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07-03-2012, 01:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Idk why everyone is labeling trading for Ryan a potential "panic trade". The way I see it is; any trade for Ryan that doesn't involve schenn or couturier makes this team better.
If the Flyers strike out on Parise, you dont think there is a chance Holmgren caves in and trades one of his untouchables for Ryan? Honestly I dont think a deal gets done unless the Flyers include a guy like Brayden Schenn.
That would be a panic trade. Not that Holmgren has made a panic trade before. He isnt known for his patience.

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07-03-2012, 02:01 PM
  #159
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I'm aware Holmgren is a bit of a wild card but I don't see any way he deals Schenn or Couturier unless it is for Weber. If he was willing to include one of them, Ryan/Nash/Yandle would be a Flyer already.

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07-03-2012, 02:07 PM
  #160
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Otherwise possibly signing Parise, we really should just stand pat at the fwd position.

The only way I would let go a piece or two of our young core is if we are getting a Pronger/Weber level D back.

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07-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #161
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Voracek + Read + a draft pick probably doesn't make us better--though I don't think it is disastrous either.
I disagree. Ryan is better than both voracek and read now, and I'd be willing to be you that he will be significantly better in the future as well. People seem to forget that Ryan is still just 25. He hasn't even hit his prime yet. At worst he will remain a 30-35 goal 60-70 point winger with size, physicality and great hands. Sign me up.

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07-03-2012, 02:09 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Otherwise possibly signing Parise, we really should just stand pat at the fwd position.

The only way I would let go a piece or two of our young core is if we are getting a Pronger/Weber level D back.
By "stand-pat," you do mean "just" resign Jagr?

If he goes, I think we need to sign at least one top-9 forward, no?

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07-03-2012, 02:11 PM
  #163
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I disagree. Ryan is better than both voracek and read now, and I'd be willing to be you that he will be significantly better in the future as well. People seem to forget that Ryan is still just 25. He hasn't even hit his prime yet. At worst he will remain a 30-35 goal 60-70 point winger with size, physicality and great hands. Sign me up.
I'm one of the (apparently) few who is open to dealing Voracek + Read for Ryan, but I don't expect Ryan plus his internal replacement (Wellwood?) to match their combined production next year either.

That's what I meant by not necessarily a "better" team.

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07-03-2012, 02:12 PM
  #164
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sabres land Ott ++ for Roy

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07-03-2012, 02:15 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm one of the (apparently) few who is open to dealing Voracek + Read for Ryan, but I don't expect Ryan plus his internal replacement (Wellwood?) to match their combined production next year either.

That's what I meant by not necessarily a "better" team.
I think Ryan + whomever replaced Read would get around or better than Voracek and Read. Ryan is a consistent 30 goal guy, I wouldn't expect less than that here (though clearly possible and not out of the question). Voracek I would imagine would get 25-30 playing in Ryan's place. Read and his replacement are the wildcards. I could easily see Read reaching or surpassing his totals just as easily as a I could see him falling of drastically. The replacement for Read also is a wildcard because there is no telling who that may be. It may be someone internally, or they may go out and sign someone who matches or surpasses Read. Tough call, really. I'd do the deal though.

EDIT: Not to mention that I imagine Voracek is likely going to be costing the Flyers in the vicinity of what Ryan is getting (if not this year, next year for sure).

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07-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #166
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By "stand-pat," you do mean "just" resign Jagr?

If he goes, I think we need to sign at least one top-9 forward, no?
Yeah, that would be the optimum scenario.

If he does walk I still say we stand pat.

We have a team that would likely all peak together. Just look at what they did last year.

I would hesitate to break them up.

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07-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicBRYZ View Post
sabres land Ott ++ for Roy
Damn, I woulda liked Ott here. The deal doesn't contain Scott Glennie does it?

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07-03-2012, 02:20 PM
  #168
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Damn, I woulda liked Ott here. The deal doesn't contain Scott Glennie does it?
No, It's just Ott and Pardy
for Roy. I thought there was a pick involved, but i guess I got that part wrong.

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07-03-2012, 02:41 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The only thing I'll say is this--in all the tweets and speculation from various beat writers, we never seem to be one of two or three teams. We are always on the six team super list, but never in the "either-or" updates.

I don't think our own beat writers believe the Flyers have a serious shot at Parise, but I don't think they have been told they are definitively out either.
We're the team who's offer Parise and Suter are hoping someone they want to play for matches or comes close to. I'm 100% confident at this point.

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07-03-2012, 02:50 PM
  #170
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As much as I like trolling the pens, I don't want some stupid high contract to parise setting the bar for his level player. At this rate claude is getting 9mill per the next contract.

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07-03-2012, 02:52 PM
  #171
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Haha, I keep posting "Welcome to Philadelphia, Zach Parise!!!!" on Facebook and people keep falling for it. Haha.

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07-03-2012, 02:56 PM
  #172
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this is what I was reffering to. If we dont get Parise or Suter I really would not be shocked if Holmgren waits 2 minutes after recieving the news and makes a panic trade for Ryan or Nash. Then gives Carle a 7 year/50 million dollar contract with a full NTC.
NTC is for amateurs. Paul Holmgren is no amateur.
NMC all the way, baby!

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07-03-2012, 02:57 PM
  #173
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Yeah, that would be the optimum scenario.

If he does walk I still say we stand pat.

We have a team that would likely all peak together. Just look at what they did last year.

I would hesitate to break them up.

you are still ignoring the fact the this team couldnt beat the rangers, bruins last season, or the devils in the playoffs, maybe pittburgh will get better too, why are looking at last year? this team had jagr which make this team better overall, you cant just plug in rookies and aspect to be superstars, that's the delusion mentally which can set this team back then forward,

clarke did that with richards and carter in 06-07, and it backfired, it just seems like people are obbessed with young players rather than try to upgrade and make the team better because you think the young guys will be super stars after one season, that's just ridiculous and stupid, you cant just look at this team what about the other teams? they could have a better gameplan to stop these young players and without a vet, it's going to be a disaster.

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07-03-2012, 02:58 PM
  #174
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your ok with offense minus JVR and Jagr?
I'm totally fine with it. Jagr wore out completely by the end of the year and JVR wasn't really part of the offense anyway.

I feel strongly about Voracek's, Schenn's & Couturier's ability to produce offense next season. I think Read should be able to maintain his numbers next year and Briere should bounce back as well. I expect Hartnell & Simmonds to fall off somewhat from last year but both should be good for at least 20 goals each. That's plenty of firepower with G.

Ultimately, I'd like an elite sniper to play w/ G but it has to be the right guy for the right price.

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07-03-2012, 03:09 PM
  #175
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I'm totally fine with it. Jagr wore out completely by the end of the year and JVR wasn't really part of the offense anyway.

I feel strongly about Voracek's, Schenn's & Couturier's ability to produce offense next season. I think Read should be able to maintain his numbers next year and Briere should bounce back as well. I expect Hartnell & Simmonds to fall off somewhat from last year but both should be good for at least 20 goals each. That's plenty of firepower with G.

Ultimately, I'd like an elite sniper to play w/ G but it has to be the right guy for the right price.

By the end of the year, they scored 11 goals in 5 games vs the Devils...

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