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Old
07-03-2012, 02:38 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
On the contrary, I was simply deriding your idea of "proven". All Our Savior Stalberg has proven is that he cant be counted on when he is actually needed to produce as a supposed 20/20 even strength supergod would either without the Toews honeypot, or when it matters in the playoffs. "Proven", feh.
Stalberg had his best run this season on the second line with Sharp, though I don't know why you bring up that he had those points because of Toews.

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07-03-2012, 02:40 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
On the contrary, I was simply deriding your idea of "proven". All Our Savior Stalberg has proven is that he cant be counted on when he is actually needed to produce as a supposed 20/20 even strength supergod would either without the Toews honeypot, or when it matters in the playoffs. "Proven", feh.
You scoff at the guy who's actually done something, and suggest replacing him with players who have done nothing.

And you think my concept of "proven" is silly? You're not making any sense, Ike.

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Old
07-03-2012, 02:41 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
People who deride players who have accomplished a certain level of success and prop up players who are yet to ever play an NHL game because they could potentially match that production... haha. They don't even see how deluded they are.
To add some perspective to those delude by "it's so easy a cave man could do it"; Since 2000-2001 there have been 3,212 player/seasons of players age 25 or younger. Of those 3,212 player/seasons, only 345 of the player /seasons had the player score 50 or more points.

Even at the raw number, only 11% have reached that plateau before age 26. If one were to remove those players which had multiple 50+ point seasons, the percentage would be even fewer. Filter for draft selection location etc., it gets into pretty rarified air to have a youngster enter the NHL and produce 50+ points in a season.

Something for those in love with propects to consider.

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07-03-2012, 02:42 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
It is rather ironic that you bring up "lunacy" when it is so abundantly clear your own preconceived dislike for Stalberg prevents you from providing an even remotely unbiased and fair opinion of him and his game.

Heh, sorry Majik. Didn't mean to cross that line.
And your love for him does not have the same 'lunacy'? Everyone has their whipping boys and I do not begrudge them that. I think Stalberg is a bit overvalued on this board. And if you can trade him when his value is high you do if it improves the team.

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07-03-2012, 02:43 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
You're not making any sense, Ike.
Maybe his handle is appropriate.

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07-03-2012, 02:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
Stalberg had his best run this season on the second line with Sharp, though I don't know why you bring up that he had those points because of Toews.
I thought he looked best on the 3rd line with Bolland and Bickell to be honest.

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07-03-2012, 02:56 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
I thought he looked best on the 3rd line with Bolland and Bickell to be honest.
Seconded

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07-03-2012, 02:59 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
I thought he looked best on the 3rd line with Bolland and Bickell to be honest.
Him and Sharp just had great chemistry. I really liked those two together.

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07-03-2012, 03:12 PM
  #134
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Or they don't have a honeypot like Toews to put this person with.
Toews assisted on 7 Stalberg goals, one was a tip-in.

Stalberg assisted on 9 Toews goals.

So is your argument that Toews had 28% of his points combining with Stalberg or that Stalberg had 37% of his points combining with Toews?

Or maybe it's that Stalberg had 63% of his points independent of Toews.

Now the posts are debating which line was his best fit. I remember BobbyJet and I pointing out all season that is was typically the Stalberg that was going on any given night, he was the catalyst with his speed and ability to chase down turnovers.

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07-03-2012, 03:12 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
You scoff at the guy who's actually done something, and suggest replacing him with players who have done nothing.

And you think my concept of "proven" is silly? You're not making any sense, Ike.
Lets be clear just to be sure, i am NOT advocating replacing him with Beach. I didnt bring him up, I was just commenting that despite the sarcastic idea of replacing Stalberg with him, the difference between the production of the two isnt what it should be considering Beach has never played in the NHL.

But Saad? You betcha I'd like to see him tried there. I've seen the alternative and I am just neither impressed nor do I see much reason to believe it will develop further, whereas I see much more upside to trying Saad, and at least see what he can do with the same opportunity.

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07-03-2012, 03:34 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
And your love for him does not have the same 'lunacy'? Everyone has their whipping boys and I do not begrudge them that. I think Stalberg is a bit overvalued on this board. And if you can trade him when his value is high you do if it improves the team.
Hahaha, really? Because I defend Stalberg from the usual haters, I therefore must "love him?" Why does everything have to be an extreme all the time? People's mindsets are truly that childish?

He's a 20-goal scorer - all at even strength - for peanuts (right now) who has improved tremendously since coming to Chicago.

A trade involving Stalberg is definitely fine if it improves the team. That is the very definition of a tradeable asset... that doesn't mean he's trash that we should throw away because, say, Brandon Saad might replace his production. If during the year Saad earns a chance ahead of Stalberg, then by all means give him the shot. Otherwise...
Or if Stalberg's value is high enough to land the acceptable #2 center that this team still needs, then sure.

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07-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Toews assisted on 7 Stalberg goals, one was a tip-in.

Stalberg assisted on 9 Toews goals.

So is your argument that Toews had 28% of his points combining with Stalberg or that Stalberg had 37% of his points combining with Toews?

Or maybe it's that Stalberg had 63% of his points independent of Toews.

Now the posts are debating which line was his best fit. I remember BobbyJet and I pointing out all season that is was typically the Stalberg that was going on any given night, he was the catalyst with his speed and ability to chase down turnovers.
Marotte, you're wasting your time and so am I. Certain mindsets are still locked in a time of past years when Stalberg was not the (quite solid) player he is today. Nothing you can really do, certain people can never admit they're wrong.

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07-03-2012, 03:41 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Lets be clear just to be sure, i am NOT advocating replacing him with Beach. I didnt bring him up, I was just commenting that despite the sarcastic idea of replacing Stalberg with him, the difference between the production of the two isnt what it should be considering Beach has never played in the NHL.

But Saad? You betcha I'd like to see him tried there. I've seen the alternative and I am just neither impressed nor do I see much reason to believe it will develop further, whereas I see much more upside to trying Saad, and at least see what he can do with the same opportunity.
Despite the fact that Stalberg has quite literally done nothing but improve as a player since coming to Chicago, you don't "see much reason to believe he'll develop further."
Actually, you used the word "it" instead of "he'll" but hey.

Blech, should take my own advice and stop wasting my time. Arguments are impossible to win on HF, the land where nobody admits they're ever wrong.

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07-03-2012, 03:42 PM
  #139
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You know what strikes me as funny. I had thought that the cronics like BWC, Ike and his lap dog, Bubba would finally be put to rest after VS had such a good season. The guy played wherever he was needed, helped players like Bickell play to their potential and showed up a lot more this season. He was one of our better players all year and played for peanuts again, but still this crap goes on. This team has several issues, Stalberg is not one of them.

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07-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Marotte, you're wasting your time and so am I. Certain mindsets are still locked in a time of past years when Stalberg was not the (quite solid) player he is today. Nothing you can really do, certain people can never admit they're wrong.
3 points in 13 playoff games and 3 points in 17 games with Toews was hurt says my opinion is quite valid, not "wrong" at all. Deal with it.

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07-03-2012, 03:47 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Hahaha, really? Because I defend Stalberg from the usual haters, I therefore must "love him?" Why does everything have to be an extreme all the time? People's mindsets are truly that childish?

He's a 20-goal scorer - all at even strength - for peanuts (right now) who has improved tremendously since coming to Chicago.

A trade involving Stalberg is definitely fine if it improves the team. That is the very definition of a tradeable asset... that doesn't mean he's trash that we should throw away because, say, Brandon Saad might replace his production. If during the year Saad earns a chance ahead of Stalberg, then by all means give him the shot. Otherwise...
Or if Stalberg's value is high enough to land the acceptable #2 center that this team still needs, then sure.
I think we can agree to disagree. I believe he is a bit overrated and you think otherwise. And we agree on a trade if it improves the team. Is that such a bad thing?

Trying to change people's opinions is often a futile endeavor. I wouldn't get so bent out of shape over it. This is a sports forum and everyone has an opinion on something. So Relax Francis.

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:49 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
3 points in 13 playoff games and 3 points in 17 games with Toews was hurt says my opinion is quite valid, not "wrong" at all. Deal with it.
The 22 goal, 43 point season all at even strength in the much more statistically significant sample size of 79 games... yes, I'll take that over the laughable evidence to your claim you've given us there.

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:56 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Despite the fact that Stalberg has quite literally done nothing but improve as a player since coming to Chicago, you don't "see much reason to believe he'll develop further."
Actually, you used the word "it" instead of "he'll" but hey.

Blech, should take my own advice and stop wasting my time. Arguments are impossible to win on HF, the land where nobody admits they're ever wrong.
Opinions are only wrong if the facts behind them are. I base my opinion on the facts that Stalberg has not produced during periods he was needed to and has a disproportionate amount of his production against very weak opposition (not going into his poor defensive play, just production). You can explain these facts away, but you cannot deny their existence and I am not required to simply accept your excuses.

You would do well to remember this the next time you want to claim someone is wrong. Opinions are not facts.

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07-03-2012, 03:59 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
The 22 goal, 43 point season all at even strength in the much more statistically significant sample size of 79 games... yes, I'll take that over the laughable evidence to your claim you've given us there.
You do that. Me, I believe playoffs are more important than artificially bloated regular season stats. You dont play Columbus in the playoffs.

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07-03-2012, 04:11 PM
  #145
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
3 points in 13 playoff games and 3 points in 17 games with Toews was hurt says my opinion is quite valid, not "wrong" at all. Deal with it.
I really don't know what you are referencing here although you post it often enough that I had to check. Bear with me here.

Toews went out Feb 20 to the end of season-22 games-not 17.

The first 17 games- if you're fixated on some lucky number or something- Stalberg had 7 points. (.42 ppg) The total 22 games without Toews-Stalberg had 11 points-(.50ppg)

Season total 43 points in 79 games (.54 ppg)

Maybe you meant 3 goals in the first 17 games? Combined with 4 assists, kinda like his season ratio and pace, eh?

So where is this great falloff?

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07-03-2012, 04:16 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I really don't know what you are referencing here although you post it often enough that I had to check. Bear with me here.

Toews went out Feb 20 to the end of season-22 games-not 17.

The first 17 games- if you're fixated on some lucky number or something- Stalberg had 7 points. (.42 ppg) The total 22 games without Toews-Stalberg had 11 points-(.50ppg)

Season total 43 points in 79 games (.54 ppg)

Maybe you meant 3 goals in the first 17 games? Combined with 4 assists, kinda like his season ratio and pace, eh?

So where is this great falloff?
He's just hating. Stalberg could put up 60 next year and people still won't like him for various reasons.

Usually because they can not admit they're were wrong. These same people said he did not belong in the NHL last year. Now, he's just good because of his line mates. Many of Stal's goals are him splitting through the D before anyone else is the offensive zone. It has little to do with his line mates. It's not like Kane and Toews were setting him up for empty cages every game.

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07-03-2012, 04:18 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
You know what strikes me as funny. I had thought that the cronics like BWC, Ike and his lap dog, Bubba would finally be put to rest after VS had such a good season. The guy played wherever he was needed, helped players like Bickell play to their potential and showed up a lot more this season. He was one of our better players all year and played for peanuts again, but still this crap goes on. This team has several issues, Stalberg is not one of them.
Amen!

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07-03-2012, 04:32 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I really don't know what you are referencing here although you post it often enough that I had to check. Bear with me here.

Toews went out Feb 20 to the end of season-22 games-not 17.

The first 17 games- if you're fixated on some lucky number or something- Stalberg had 7 points. (.42 ppg) The total 22 games without Toews-Stalberg had 11 points-(.50ppg)

Season total 43 points in 79 games (.54 ppg)

Maybe you meant 3 goals in the first 17 games? Combined with 4 assists, kinda like his season ratio and pace, eh?

So where is this great falloff?
You're right... it was 21 games, not 17. 2 points in 18.

Feb 10 (or 2 if you prefer) to Mar 9. A 12 point pace. Kinda like his career playoff ratio and pace, eh?

The great "catalyst". Lol.

Now, did you really miss that, or were you hoping I wouldn't look? Just because I was posting from my phone doesn't mean I can't get the laptop out if I need to.

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07-03-2012, 04:38 PM
  #149
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Stalberg and Emery for Bernier

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07-03-2012, 04:39 PM
  #150
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I really don't know what you are referencing here although you post it often enough that I had to check. Bear with me here.

Toews went out Feb 20 to the end of season-22 games-not 17.

The first 17 games- if you're fixated on some lucky number or something- Stalberg had 7 points. (.42 ppg) The total 22 games without Toews-Stalberg had 11 points-(.50ppg)

Season total 43 points in 79 games (.54 ppg)

Maybe you meant 3 goals in the first 17 games? Combined with 4 assists, kinda like his season ratio and pace, eh?

So where is this great falloff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
You're right... it was 21 games, not 17. 2 points in 18.

Feb 10 (or 2 if you prefer) to Mar 9. A 12 point pace. Kinda like his career playoff ratio and pace, eh?

The great "catalyst". Lol.

Now, did you really miss that, or were you hoping I wouldn't look? Just because I was posting from my phone doesn't mean I can't get the laptop out if I need to.
I STILL don't know what you're talking about, do you? Are you using a Canadian calendar or something? Maybe you should replece the gerbil with a mouse? Just trying to figure you out.

Here you go, your dates, games played and stats are off unless you inadvertantly just selected the worst 17 game stretch for Stalberg. If so, it had nothing to do with Toews being out of the lineup with a concussion, now did it?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...12012&view=log

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