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Sharks no longer interested in Daniel Winnik

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:44 PM
  #26
sharkbite3
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That trade...sucked.

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07-03-2012, 03:49 PM
  #27
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DW the past year in retrospect:

burns trade -> decent
burns signing -> great
havlat trade -> meh
white signing -> bad
vandy signing -> meh
pylonzeus signing -> horrible
mcginn trade -> bad
stuart signing -> meh
burish signing -> meh

all in all not a good year for our GM.

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07-03-2012, 03:56 PM
  #28
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DW's last year has been one big facepalm

if Burns continues to improve next year and Seto doesn't elevate into a more consistent star in Minnesota, that trade could be great

the Havlat trade was a mixed bag... Havlat's fragility was the main risk, and it blew up in DW's face this year... if he can play like 70 games each of the next 2 years AND he comes up big in the playoffs, the trade might even out... Heater last year was obviously so much better than Havlat's year, even when you include their salary difference

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07-03-2012, 03:58 PM
  #29
WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
DW the past year in retrospect:

burns trade -> decent-so far great. Have to see what comes of Coyle
burns signing -> great
havlat trade -> meh-Excellent sallary dump
white signing -> bad-no risk nothing really to lose
vandy signing -> meh If injuries happened he would have been usefull
pylonzeus signing -> horrible
mcginn trade -> bad - this was a good trade. McGinn couldn't push the play against terrible competition even worse for the Avs
stuart signing -> meh - This was neccessary. If the Sharks are able to get Boyle off the PK, then woooohoooo
burish signing -> meh - Depends how Burish is used. One thing for sure it is good the sharks are paying Burish istead of Mitchell.

all in all not a good year for our GM.
fixed

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07-03-2012, 04:04 PM
  #30
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IMO the Colin White signing wasn't bad in theory, we just rolled the dice that he had 1 more good year left... he didn't... most people liked it at the time

the vandermeer signing was a good signing, I think TMac just didn't use him enough

IMO, TMac made the White & Vandermeer signing a lot worse than they should've been by stubbornly playing white so much when he was struggling and sitting vandermeer for some unknown reason

this is part of the reason that, while I like TMac, I don't see why DW kept him & his staff... there seems to be a difference in opnione, with TMac not using the players DW acquired the way DW thought they would

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07-03-2012, 04:06 PM
  #31
Hatrick Marleau
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Anyone remember the year where Mcginn went scoreless for 40+ games. It was a sell high move by Wilson. I think Galiardi will be the better player in the long run. Let's wait and see if Galiardi will rebound this season before we call for DW's head. Let's also see how Mcginn does for a whole season with the Avs. Let us not forget Mcginn was playing with Stastny and Galiardi was playing with Moore and Mitchell.

Sgrabossa is just a prospect and until he does something in the NHL I won't worry about him.

Connolly was just a throw in and is a career AHLer.

Winnik isn't a scorer. He has stone hands. He is a good defensive player and can PK well. He is more of a 4th liner.

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07-03-2012, 04:08 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
fixed
You changed everything on there except the one about Handzus. I agree with all of that.

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07-03-2012, 04:11 PM
  #33
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Handzus' signing wouldnt be so bad if it was 600k/season which he shouldve gotten instead of 2.5+NTC

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07-03-2012, 04:13 PM
  #34
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I saw Mcginns worth 2 yrs ago. I'm that awesome. Braun is next, mark it

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07-03-2012, 04:17 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
fixed
While it is too early to judge the Burns trade definitely wasn't great. The extension was great, but the trade was made for 1 year of Burns and the right to negotiate an extension. Seto is still a decent player and Coyle looks to be the real deal. Burns is great, but the wild got a lot in return.

As far as Burrish goes, he has been used in a shutdown role at times but not very effectively. Advanced stats point to Winnik being the better defender, especially on the PK.

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07-03-2012, 04:23 PM
  #36
Blubba Jenkins
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Coyotes fan:

Winnik is a contractual nightmare for GMs. He took the Coyotes to arbitration twice and had pretty unrealistic demands for a player of his role. It seems easy to assume that Colorado and San Jose think the same way.

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07-03-2012, 04:27 PM
  #37
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I honestly think there's still a chance Winnik is back. DW is just waiting for Winnik to realize that his demands are ridiculous after no team wants him at the price he's looking for.

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07-03-2012, 04:31 PM
  #38
Gene Parmesan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubba Jenkins View Post
Coyotes fan:

Winnik is a contractual nightmare for GMs. He took the Coyotes to arbitration twice and had pretty unrealistic demands for a player of his role. It seems easy to assume that Colorado and San Jose think the same way.
exactly.

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07-03-2012, 04:31 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
fixed
the proof is in the pudding and this was the 6th worst sharks team in our history, coming off a year where we made the final four. and it's not like we got offed by the cup champs (something van can say), we got offed by a team that got destroyed by said cup champs.

burns trade by itself wasn't that great, we gave up a lot for a 1 year contract. the signing was a separate line item and that was great.

i disagree havlat trade was a dump. instead of 3x7.5 we have 4x5, and it's not like we are a cap team anymore (we weren't last season). havlat was injured half the season and our record shows it. and no one can say 'oh wow who could have predicted havlat would get hurt??" cuz everyone knew he was a walking injury risk. all in all a "meh" trade as in not bad not good, just was.

white had a bad season with us. at the time i thought it was a good signing but he never fit in with us.

vandy was a meh, not good not bad. not gonna give a ton of credit for a 7th/8th dman signing.

mcginn trade was bad. we gave up prospects too (sarbossa, conolly). all for a disapointing tj and a 7th. i suppose the verdict is still out but the results after the past season weren't good.

stuart and burrish who knows, that's why i put meh, i think we overpaid on both but whatever, they are better than nothing and nothing is what we have so far sides from those 2.

a lot of fans on this site love DW and think he can do no wrong, but the fact is he has not led our team to a finals appearance and this past season was a disaster, and a lot of that was due to his personal decisions.

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07-03-2012, 04:34 PM
  #40
WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falco5 View Post
While it is too early to judge the Burns trade definitely wasn't great. The extension was great, but the trade was made for 1 year of Burns and the right to negotiate an extension. Seto is still a decent player and Coyle looks to be the real deal. Burns is great, but the wild got a lot in return.

As far as Burrish goes, he has been used in a shutdown role at times but not very effectively. Advanced stats point to Winnik being the better defender, especially on the PK.
I have heard different opinions regarding Coyle. Yes the one year of Burns was a calculated risk but it worked in the end. Seto didn't do nearly as well as the Wild hoped.

In 2010-2011 Burish was used very effectively against top competition. He was Dallas's top shutdown forward by leaps and bounds and did very well. Winnik has never been in that role. As for the penalty kill it again depends on where you look. Burish was great on the PK for the Hawks. All in all I don't see the added value Winnik provides.

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07-03-2012, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
You guys do realize that everything else about McGinn beside his goal totals and ludicrously high shooting percentage was pretty bad right? For the Avs too.

Edit: I fully expect McGinn to do a Comeau. Actually Comeau probably would still have better value then McGinn
McGinn was physical, which nobody else was (except murray and clowe, and theyre the two most talked about for trades)

our bottom 6 couldnt hurt a pillow, and thats pretty poor.

mcginn was also coutures BFF, and after the mcginn trade couture played alot worse.

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07-03-2012, 04:39 PM
  #42
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If Winnik wants 2.5+ per year then I am fine with letting him go. The trade was stupid, but at least we did get TJ out of it, better than past years where we got nothing. I do think TJ will rebound to a 40p+ player.

You cannot make decisions based on sunk cost, and at the very least Wilson is a smart enough man to understand that. Just because we wasted picks/players does not mean we should compound the problem by overpaying.

I just replaced our entire wireless system because it never worked the way we wanted it to. We had invested $15-20k in it, and I could have dumped more into it to solve the problem, but in the end the smarter thing to do was to trash a 2 year old system and invest $10k in a new, better, system. It was an easy sell to the owners, and the new system works great. Sunk cost is a dangerous thing to get sucked into.

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07-03-2012, 04:40 PM
  #43
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
McGinn was physical, which nobody else was (except murray and clowe, and theyre the two most talked about for trades)

our bottom 6 couldnt hurt a pillow, and thats pretty poor.

mcginn was also coutures BFF, and after the mcginn trade couture played alot worse.
Burish is very physical, almost too physical some would say. Wingels is also a pretty good hitter much like McGinn. We don't know who the other 3 players will be (aside from Desjardins) so it's tough to make that conclusion.

Couture was injured, which is why he had surgery. You can't definitively say McGinn leaving was the cause of his decline.

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07-03-2012, 04:42 PM
  #44
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
the proof is in the pudding and this was the 6th worst sharks team in our history, coming off a year where we made the final four. and it's not like we got offed by the cup champs (something van can say), we got offed by a team that got destroyed by said cup champs. - I'm pretty sure the Sharks would have offed the stanley cup champs. Without a doubt they would have fared far better and would have given the kings a far bigger challenge then any team they faced.

burns trade by itself wasn't that great, we gave up a lot for a 1 year contract. the signing was a separate line item and that was great. - Sometimes a GM has to gamble. Why are you getting on cautious Wilson's case for gambling

i disagree havlat trade was a dump. instead of 3x7.5 we have 4x5, and it's not like we are a cap team anymore (we weren't last season). havlat was injured half the season and our record shows it. and no one can say 'oh wow who could have predicted havlat would get hurt??" cuz everyone knew he was a walking injury risk. all in all a "meh" trade as in not bad not good, just was. Saving 2.5 million for 3 years is a fantastic dump when dealing with an albatross like Heatley. Havlat is a very valuable and moveable asset

white had a bad season with us. at the time i thought it was a good signing but he never fit in with us. - So given the cap space I don't see what Wilson lost. White actually wasn't that bad in playoffs

vandy was a meh, not good not bad. not gonna give a ton of credit for a 7th/8th dman signing.

mcginn trade was bad. we gave up prospects too (sarbossa, conolly). all for a disapointing tj and a 7th. i suppose the verdict is still out but the results after the past season weren't good. - Connolly probably is a career AHLer, who knows with sarabossa. Its not like the Sharks traded Hamilton

stuart and burrish who knows, that's why i put meh, i think we overpaid on both but whatever, they are better than nothing and nothing is what we have so far sides from those 2. - Burrish has less of a cap hit than Taco Torrey. The Sharks needed to sign someone, would you have rather seen the sharks pen in what Mitchell got? Also from what i heard the Wings offered Stuart a little more to stay.

a lot of fans on this site love DW and think he can do no wrong, but the fact is he has not led our team to a finals appearance and this past season was a disaster, and a lot of that was due to his personal decisions. - I can give you multiple examples of where Wilson made a mistake
There you have it...


Last edited by WantonAbandon: 07-03-2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old
07-03-2012, 04:46 PM
  #45
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6th worst team in history and still made the playoffs? Jesus we're spoiled.

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07-03-2012, 04:50 PM
  #46
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6th worst team in history and still made the playoffs? Jesus we're spoiled.
consistent reg sesaon success is all we have given we are one of 6 teams in the league never to see the finals, and only the jets/coyotes have existed longer. the other 4 teams consist of league losers like cbj and florida and newbies like the wild and nash.

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07-03-2012, 04:52 PM
  #47
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consistent reg sesaon success is all we have given we are one of 6 teams in the league never to see the finals, and only the jets/coyotes have existed longer. the other 4 teams consist of league losers like cbj and florida and newbies like the wild and nash.
Florida made the finals in their third year.

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07-03-2012, 04:55 PM
  #48
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Florida made the finals in their third year.
oh yah, that's right. the 6th team was the flames/jets. man all the xpac teams in our cohort have won or at lesat made the finals. canes, ducks.. sighhhh!

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07-03-2012, 04:55 PM
  #49
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Yes Burish has been used in the shutdown role very effectively waaayy back in the 2010-2011 season. There is not enough differences between the two to warrant a significant increase in pay to sign Winnik.
In what respect was he effective in the role? He was outmatched in that role that year. And even if you were given that one year, that still means he is unproven in this capacity and has a much richer history of 4th line roles. There is a significant difference between the two because Winnik has shown that he is good for the role for the last couple of years as opposed to not at all.

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07-03-2012, 05:00 PM
  #50
WantonAbandon
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In what respect was he effective in the role? He was outmatched in that role that year. And even if you were given that one year, that still means he is unproven in this capacity and has a much richer history of 4th line roles. There is a significant difference between the two because Winnik has shown that he is good for the role for the last couple of years as opposed to not at all.
He was outmatched by the top competition in the NHL? That is always what happens when a team uses a third line forward as their top shutdown. This is a role that Winnik has never been used in by the way. 2010-2011 was a good year for Burish. He was used very differently this last season.

Frankly I think a big reason why Burish wasn't resigned by the stars was the same reason they dropped Riberro and Ott. The Stars are trying to change their culture. That and Burish probably wanted to play for a winner.

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