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Development Camp 2012 July 6th-10th

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Old
07-03-2012, 03:07 PM
  #26
Jwm1986
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While Forbort hasnt put up great offensive numbers in college, his development has been right on track....From what i've heard from those who follow ND religiously, Forbort was one of the best NCAA players in the entire tournament last year....

This is a guy who will be a solid Top 4 2-way defenceman one day and will fit perfectly in the Willie Mitchell roll, although with a higher offensive upside....

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07-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I don't think the Kings want Forbort playing a senior season for UND, because then he could become an UFA like Schultz. And while Forbort is no Schultz, there would still be demand for him.

Hopefully he finally starts to dominate this season and is ready to turn pro this spring.
I expect that loop-hole to be closed by the new CBA.

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07-03-2012, 04:04 PM
  #28
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i see what you mean about forecasting.

i believe it was the 2010 development camp which had Martinez and Lewis there. Both received much hype from lombardi and both did nothing to make me think that they would be in the NHL. i looked at both during this camp and thought and especially lewis who was by far the oldest draftee at development camp...2006 1st round draftee at a 2010 development camp... thought that there was no way he would make an impact as an NHLer. Same with Martinez... both had non stand-outy camps.

Turns out i was definitely wrong about it... though i have been somewhat right about certain forecastings: Loktionov / Voynov / Simmonds / Moller / Clifford

Players i already like in camp:

Nic Deslaurier: smooth skater / great vision / great escapability / good passer / can lay on the big hit. only weakness i really see is that his point shot is pretty weak.

Linden Vey: quiet in his first impression, but improving camp to camp. Put up huge numbers in the WHL and played very well in the AHL last year. I look to see him stand out here in camp. Good overall skill and anticipation...still wondering about strength and work in the corners.

Michael Schumacher: I believe he was our last pick in the 2011 draft, but his size and his hands are good enough for him to be considered in the NHL. the combination is deadly and if he can refine the other fundamentals, i think he's got a real shot.

Andreoff: good combination of grit and skill. not a big guy but he's tankish in size and tough to move off the puck... he's also got some nastyness to him with a bit of a scoring touch. We do a great job of developing bottom 6 forwards.... definitely looking forward to seeing him for a 2nd year

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07-03-2012, 06:47 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I don't think the Kings want Forbort playing a senior season for UND, because then he could become an UFA like Schultz. And while Forbort is no Schultz, there would still be demand for him.

Hopefully he finally starts to dominate this season and is ready to turn pro this spring.
Little chance of that happening with the CBA up this summer. The Schultz loophole will likely be closed and changed to RFA instead of UFA status or something. Kings dealt with a similar situation when Parse lleft school and signed in Grand Rapids but that worked out fine. Schultz is the exception and not the rule when it comes to college prospects.

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07-03-2012, 09:02 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losingsand View Post
i see what you mean about forecasting.

i believe it was the 2010 development camp which had Martinez and Lewis there. Both received much hype from lombardi and both did nothing to make me think that they would be in the NHL. i looked at both during this camp and thought and especially lewis who was by far the oldest draftee at development camp...2006 1st round draftee at a 2010 development camp... thought that there was no way he would make an impact as an NHLer. Same with Martinez... both had non stand-outy camps.

Turns out i was definitely wrong about it... though i have been somewhat right about certain forecastings: Loktionov / Voynov / Simmonds / Moller / Clifford

Players i already like in camp:

Nic Deslaurier: smooth skater / great vision / great escapability / good passer / can lay on the big hit. only weakness i really see is that his point shot is pretty weak.

Linden Vey: quiet in his first impression, but improving camp to camp. Put up huge numbers in the WHL and played very well in the AHL last year. I look to see him stand out here in camp. Good overall skill and anticipation...still wondering about strength and work in the corners.

Michael Schumacher: I believe he was our last pick in the 2011 draft, but his size and his hands are good enough for him to be considered in the NHL. the combination is deadly and if he can refine the other fundamentals, i think he's got a real shot.

Andreoff: good combination of grit and skill. not a big guy but he's tankish in size and tough to move off the puck... he's also got some nastyness to him with a bit of a scoring touch. We do a great job of developing bottom 6 forwards.... definitely looking forward to seeing him for a 2nd year
Interesting that you mention that, wonder if we have any of the old dev camp threads still on the board, be interesting to read. And might help ease some of the overreactions you get after these camps...

Also, do the college players usually attend these camps?? I know they have to pay their own way if they do....same with the Russians, surprised to see Porkins

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07-03-2012, 10:42 PM
  #31
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Tell him not to fight.

thanks for the video, he's got a lot of courage,

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07-04-2012, 10:07 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Interesting that you mention that, wonder if we have any of the old dev camp threads still on the board, be interesting to read. And might help ease some of the overreactions you get after these camps...

Also, do the college players usually attend these camps?? I know they have to pay their own way if they do....same with the Russians, surprised to see Porkins
First I've ever heard of this. What's the story behind that? I know the college guys do because they have to manitain "amatuer" status, but I'm confused on why a Russian would have that same issue...

As far as the Kings go, there haven't been many college guys that attend these. Pretty much only if they are a top pick. I don't think Turnbull ever did, but Roe attended one or two IIRC.

Am I the only one surprised there aren't more invitees in this camp? Heven't there been a bigger number of invites in this camp in the past or am I thinking of the Rookie camp that will start in August?

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07-04-2012, 10:47 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
First I've ever heard of this. What's the story behind that? I know the college guys do because they have to manitain "amatuer" status, but I'm confused on why a Russian would have that same issue...

As far as the Kings go, there haven't been many college guys that attend these. Pretty much only if they are a top pick. I don't think Turnbull ever did, but Roe attended one or two IIRC.

Am I the only one surprised there aren't more invitees in this camp? Heven't there been a bigger number of invites in this camp in the past or am I thinking of the Rookie camp that will start in August?
I believe every college player attended at least once.

As for fewer invitees, it appears the Kings are going back to an old format where they focus on positions and then have the combined drills incorporate the lessons to function together as a team. I think the overall goal is to focus on the system, so they can execute it without the familiarity of the teammates.

As to the fewer invitees, my guess is so they can dedicate more time to their own prospects.

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07-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #34
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Maybe there are less invitees this year because there aren't games like the last couple seasons. No need for the extra bodies. Just some kids that they have an eye on.

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07-04-2012, 01:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
First I've ever heard of this. What's the story behind that? I know the college guys do because they have to manitain "amatuer" status, but I'm confused on why a Russian would have that same issue...

As far as the Kings go, there haven't been many college guys that attend these. Pretty much only if they are a top pick. I don't think Turnbull ever did, but Roe attended one or two IIRC.

Am I the only one surprised there aren't more invitees in this camp? Heven't there been a bigger number of invites in this camp in the past or am I thinking of the Rookie camp that will start in August?
Sorry, I meant to say, do Russians usually attend these camps, not that they can't be paid for. I know Kitsyn did after his draft, but that was cause it was right after he was drafted and was already in LA.

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07-05-2012, 09:48 AM
  #36
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I'm eager to see how Goodenow and MacDermid do. Seems like we nab one of these camp invite kids either as a signing (Jones/Roach) or in the draft the next year. Goodenow especially I'm interested to see as we seem to have a good scouting eye for big OHL forwards (Clifford and Simmonds). MacDermid, considering he only played 9 games last year, likely was on LA's radar before this season so there must be some good raw talent there that should show up in camp.

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07-05-2012, 10:23 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
MacDermid, considering he only played 9 games last year, likely was on LA's radar before this season so there must be some good raw talent there that should show up in camp.
Given Lombardi and Futa's connections to Owen Sound, I have a suspicion there's a bit of an agreement between the two:

LA:
Gets a lot more in depth information about players in the franchise, and at times, maybe even use the import draft to bring Kings picks in (Schumacher, though he was later traded to SSM)

OS:
Gets a random prospect in their organization within the Kings organization, even if it's as a camp invite, so they can develop with an organization with more resources over the summer.

There's absolutely nothing to substantiate this; it's just random speculation on my behalf. I do find it very curious there's always some typer of interaction between the Kings and an Owen Sound player every year, though.

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:56 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
The Kid is 20, he is a long term project. He is realistically still about three years away. He still has at least one more year at ND( two most likely) , then he has to spend at least two more at the AHL level playing Men.

Defensive players like Drew Doughty are once in a lifetime.
Thank you.


Defensive defenseman take a long time to develop. Longer than offensive defenseman.

Doughty was able to step into the NHL because of his OFFENSIVE game. Karlsson because of his OFFENSIVE game.

Guys like Girardi, Scuderi, Mitchell, Bieksa, etc etc. did at least a season or two in the AHL to get seasoned. It's rare to see a shutdown defenseman, even a highly touted one step in immediately.

The last guy I can think of as a "shutdown" d-man who stepped into the league at a young age was Brent Seabrook.

Look at a guy like Gudbranson, who is trying to step in in Florida's system as a shutdown guy. He struggled last season. Yea he survived 72 games with the team, but he wasn't that great.

Realistically...a defenseman who PRIMARILY plays defense...I don't expect to see them in the NHL til 22 or 23 or after at least 1-2 years in the AHL.

People ignore the deficiencies of the Doughtys and Karlssons of the world because of the offense. Guys like Forbort have to REALLY take the time to adjust their game to the NHL level because defense is what they rely on, and the difference between CHL/NCAA/AHL speed and defense and NHL speed and defense is VERY different.

It's why I still say Hickey isn't a bust. Yea maybe he was a high pick, but he isn't a bust yet. Learning the defensive side of the game and being good at it is a difficult difficult thing.

I think a lot of fans have become unrealistic with expectations of draft picks due to players like Doughty, Simmonds, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Evander Kane...

Not every type of player has the same arch of development. Certain players will have an easier time breaking in than others because of their roles or a teams needs. And in the case of Nugent-Hopkins or Doughty, some are just freaks, generational talents.

I say if a kid is playing in the NHL before the age of 23. That's pretty god damn good.

Not everyone has to break in at 19 or 20.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:09 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Little chance of that happening with the CBA up this summer. The Schultz loophole will likely be closed and changed to RFA instead of UFA status or something. Kings dealt with a similar situation when Parse lleft school and signed in Grand Rapids but that worked out fine. Schultz is the exception and not the rule when it comes to college prospects.
Like someone else posted, players like Schultz (unsigned, 4 yrs after player drafted, becomes UFA) should have to pass thru waivers to be selected by a team.

Although in this case, he would have wound up in Edm anyway...

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07-05-2012, 12:08 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
There's absolutely nothing to substantiate this; it's just random speculation on my behalf. I do find it very curious there's always some typer of interaction between the Kings and an Owen Sound player every year, though.
Same could be said for SSM though as well. Jordan Nolan, Jake Muzzin, Andrew Campbell, Colin Miller, and Dylan King and have either been draft picks or invites to camps, have all spent time there and I think didn't Simmonds as well, and maybe one or two I'm missing.

But there definately seems to be some bleed over between Owen Sound and the Greyhounds and the Kings.

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07-05-2012, 03:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Sorry, I meant to say, do Russians usually attend these camps, not that they can't be paid for. I know Kitsyn did after his draft, but that was cause it was right after he was drafted and was already in LA.
I think it more has to do with Visa issues.

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07-05-2012, 05:00 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Sorry, I meant to say, do Russians usually attend these camps, not that they can't be paid for. I know Kitsyn did after his draft, but that was cause it was right after he was drafted and was already in LA.
As far as the Kings go, every Russian has been at these camps after being drafted and Kitsyn is the only one that's missed a few of them. Loki, and Voinov both attended every camp the Kings had although I think one missed a practice or two(Voinov?) as he was sick, and one (Loki?) missed a camp due to shoulder surgery. Otherwise all of the Russians drafted lately have been in the camps every chance they got.

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07-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post

Guys like Girardi, Scuderi, Mitchell, Bieksa, etc etc. did at least a season or two in the AHL to get seasoned. It's rare to see a shutdown defenseman, even a highly touted one step in immediately.

The last guy I can think of as a "shutdown" d-man who stepped into the league at a young age was Brent Seabrook.
I'd say Luke Schenn was the latest, and the only one I can think off as an 18-year-old in quite some time.

And now look at him, I think he could have benefited from going to juniors one more year rather than the NHL. He looks lost at times now.

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07-06-2012, 09:30 AM
  #44
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set up here at development camp already.. to beat traffic.

writing down the roster in my notes and noticing that we have a crap load of nicks

-nic deslaurier
-nic dowd
-nick ebert
-nik prohorkins
-nick shore.

Should i start a new thread for today's evaluations or should i just continue writing in this thread?

KINGS HOCKEY IN JULY!

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07-06-2012, 09:45 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losingsand View Post
Should i start a new thread for today's evaluations or should i just continue writing in this thread?

KINGS HOCKEY IN JULY!
Keep it in here. That way we can just check in on one thread.

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07-06-2012, 09:47 AM
  #46
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I guess this thread can be used for all the evaluations/interviews from the summer camp.

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07-06-2012, 10:19 AM
  #47
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no prokhorkins on the ice. not sure why

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07-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by losingsand View Post
no prokhorkins on the ice. not sure why
I remember Loktionov/Voynov having visa issues in the past and missing some rookie camp time. Could be the same with Prokhorkin

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07-06-2012, 11:15 AM
  #49
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big first impression made by hyka.

shifty fast and creative.
0 to 60 in a millisecond.

did some pretty ballsy things on the one on one drill
and succeeded.

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07-06-2012, 11:35 AM
  #50
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pearsons got some nice moves too. tough to gauge overAll since it was just forwards out there.

dont know what they have schumacher listed as but he looks even bigger than last year.

toffoli has grown out his hair. nic dowd, whos got a tj oshie look to him was probably the feisteist

during the one on one drills.

(one forward trying to take the puck away from Another forward in the circle. basically keep away)

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