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Old
07-03-2012, 05:09 PM
  #51
Bennrocks
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
Never heard anyone say flat out that our defense sucks. Just people posting what they would be "ok" with. I'm not ok with any combination of D pairings I've seen in a long time. Good stuff on offense, but we are in desperate need of at least a #1 or #2 defender, something I can't remember having since Robidas of 3/4 years ago(as a #2).
Id argue that Goligoski is a decent #2 and that daley is a good #3 but i can see how other people would disagree

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07-03-2012, 05:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
I may be eaten alive for this but this is the truth... our defense sucks. Mediocre at the very best. Just a bunch of #3s and #4s.
The thing about defense is that, as long as there's a good, structured system in place, having dominate players really isn't nearly as important as it is for forwards.

Assuming everyone in our current d-corp plays the system exactly as their told, there's absolutely no reason to think we shouldnt have 'middle of the pack' defense. Obviously it's not a great squad, but as long as there's no turnover machines on the back end, we should be fine.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
Never heard anyone say flat out that our defense sucks. Just people posting what they would be "ok" with. I'm not ok with any combination of D pairings I've seen in a long time. Good stuff on offense, but we are in desperate need of at least a #1 or #2 defender, something I can't remember having since Robidas of 3/4 years ago(as a #2).
I don't believe there is a good combination of the 7 guys projected to be on this defense either. You're looking at having to pair two small guys together and guys who don't really complement eachothers style. It's really a bad mix as it stands.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ReverendAlBundy View Post
The thing about defense is that, as long as there's a good, structured system in place, having dominate players really isn't nearly as important as it is for forwards.

Assuming everyone in our current d-corp plays the system exactly as their told, there's absolutely no reason to think we shouldnt have 'middle of the pack' defense. Obviously it's not a great squad, but as long as there's no turnover machines on the back end, we should be fine.
I do agree with this, I guess I just don't have that type of faith in our coaching staff.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
Never heard anyone say flat out that our defense sucks. Just people posting what they would be "ok" with. I'm not ok with any combination of D pairings I've seen in a long time. Good stuff on offense, but we are in desperate need of at least a #1 or #2 defender, something I can't remember having since Robidas of 3/4 years ago(as a #2).
The only reason I'm against going out and trying to pick up a #1 guy is that I don't want to build up our D from the outside. We're only a year away from oleksiak and nemeth making a push for the big club and I don't want to see them stuck in Austin because we couldn't just be patient with our prospects.

Now that being said, if in a years time it doesn't look like any of our prospects are going to develop into what we hope, by all means go out and load up our squad from the outside.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:17 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
I may be eaten alive for this but this is the truth... our defense sucks. Mediocre at the very best. Just a bunch of #3s and #4s.
Robidas - #4
Daley - #3
Goligoski - #3, top pairing potential (offense only)
Larsen - #3-4, top pairing potential
Dillon #4-6, top 4 potential
Fistric - #5-6
Rome - #6-7

And even looking ahead...

Oleksiak - bigger JBo
Nemeth - I liked the Hatcher comparison I saw somewhere.
Klingberg - MAB
I can't think of any others for some reason.

Our D sucks right now. And even looking ahead, it's better, but not great. I didn't realize how desperately we need a #1.

And yet I have the strangest feeling Sinitsyn will end up being a #1. I have absolutely no idea why, never heard of him until the draft and haven't seen any footage at all. First time I'll see him is this Friday, but I just get a really good vibe from this kid.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:25 PM
  #57
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What about Robidas for a 2nd? Morrow for a 2nd or 3rd, depending on how he's valued.

Either those two picks plus Fistric for Bouwmeester, or one of those picks, plus Glennie and Fistric for Bouwmeester.

Calgary doesn't take on much salary and can keep or flip the picks as they choose. Dallas actually dumps salary but gets better.

Goligoski-Bouwmeester
Daley-Dillon
Larsen-Rome
Benn

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
I don't believe there is a good combination of the 7 guys projected to be on this defense either. You're looking at having to pair two small guys together and guys who don't really complement eachothers style. It's really a bad mix as it stands.
Daley-Dillon
Goose-Fistric
Rome-Larsen

The problem is none of our "shutdown" guys are any more than #6s at this point. Dillon might be better but we don't know yet.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Robidas - #4
Daley - #3
Goligoski - #3, top pairing potential (offense only)
Larsen - #3-4, top pairing potential
Dillon #4-6, top 4 potential
Fistric - #5-6
Rome - #6-7
I think this is a good evaluation of how I see our group atm. But add on the fact that most of these players small drags the group down as a whole. Then look at our offense and how they've gotten softer. I thought we wanted to be (Insert Joe's favorite quote).

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
What about Robidas for a 2nd? Morrow for a 2nd or 3rd, depending on how he's valued.

Either those two picks plus Fistric for Bouwmeester, or one of those picks, plus Glennie and Fistric for Bouwmeester.

Calgary doesn't take on much salary and can keep or flip the picks as they choose. Dallas actually dumps salary but gets better.

Goligoski-Bouwmeester
Daley-Dillon
Larsen-Rome
Benn
$6.6M for a player that has put up <30 pts in his last 3 seasons?


No thanks! Let us at least learn from someone else's mistakes.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:40 PM
  #61
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$6.6M for a player that has put up <30 pts in his last 3 seasons?


No thanks! Let us at least learn from someone else's mistakes.
He's a top pairing shut down guy, with only 2 years left on his contract. It'd make the team a lot better.

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07-03-2012, 05:40 PM
  #62
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The defense STILL worries me as well, and I have very little confidence in them....if we don't make any more moves, Lehtonen will have to be ready to play at the same level he did last season to bail them out.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:43 PM
  #63
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He's a top pairing shut down guy, with only 2 years left on his contract. It'd make the team a lot better.
completely agree.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:54 PM
  #64
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He'd be fantastic in a shutdown role which is what we need. Maybe some powerplay time but he could probably cut back his minutes and be better for it.

I don't think we have what Calgary would want but if we can nab Bouwmeester we should.

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07-03-2012, 06:17 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
He's a top pairing shut down guy, with only 2 years left on his contract. It'd make the team a lot better.
I'd have to disagree. -4, -2, and a whopping -21 rating last season doesn't give me hope reg. his shutdown capabilities. He played all 82 games with the Flames each season and that to me, is his only bright spot.

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07-03-2012, 06:19 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
He'd be fantastic in a shutdown role which is what we need. Maybe some powerplay time but he could probably cut back his minutes and be better for it.

I don't think we have what Calgary would want but if we can nab Bouwmeester we should.
Can't agree with $6.6M for that kinda work. IIRC, you were adamantly against $4.5M for Garrison, right?

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:20 PM
  #67
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I'd have to disagree. -4, -2, and a whopping -21 rating last season doesn't give me hope reg. his shutdown capabilities. He played all 82 games with the Flames each season and that to me, is his only bright spot.
Well there's your problem ... you're using +/- as a guage of a guys value.

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:21 PM
  #68
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I feel the same way. If Robidas is on the team he is very likely to be fed huge minutes against top competition.
I'm more worried about Robidas continuing to get big PP minutes.

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:24 PM
  #69
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I'm more worried about Robidas continuing to get big PP minutes.
Morrow + Robidas for Jbo?

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:29 PM
  #70
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Well there's your problem ... you're using +/- as a guage of a guys value.
Any advanced stats to prove he is worth the $6.6M for playing a shutdown role?

Then there's that meddlesome father of his...if there is any truth to that.

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07-03-2012, 06:31 PM
  #71
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Alright, calmed down after the signing. Back to the bigger issue.

Come on Suter don't you want to be part of something special
And we can give you all of King Midas's gold!!!

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:35 PM
  #72
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Any advanced stats to prove he is worth the $6.6M for playing a shutdown role?

Then there's that meddlesome father of his...if there is any truth to that.
The advanced stats show he played the hardest minutes on a poor team. I hate +/- mainly because a guy like Fistric against scurbs can nearly lead a team in +/- but it makes the guys playing elite offensive talent look like trash.

You also get situations where a high powered offense inflates your +/-.

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:36 PM
  #73
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To Calgary: Mark Fistric, Scott Glennie

To Dallas: Jay Bouwmeester

Thoughts?

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:38 PM
  #74
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To Calgary: Mark Fistric, Scott Glennie

To Dallas: Jay Bouwmeester

Thoughts?
Done. Lets call up DJ Nieuwendyk now.

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Old
07-03-2012, 06:40 PM
  #75
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Bouwmeester plays 25+ minutes against the other teams top lines, he may not put up the numbers he did in FLA, but he would be a very solid addition to the team.

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