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Old
07-03-2012, 05:40 PM
  #76
aisforaaron83
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Any advanced stats to prove he is worth the $6.6M for playing a shutdown role?

Then there's that meddlesome father of his...if there is any truth to that.
Do you ever watch him play? stats can only show you so much. it is a lot of cash, but he really is worth it for 2 years here.

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07-03-2012, 05:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Any advanced stats to prove he is worth the $6.6M for playing a shutdown role?

Then there's that meddlesome father of his...if there is any truth to that.
why does it matter how much money he makes for the next fear years? Cap ceiling is not going to be an issue for awhile.

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07-03-2012, 05:41 PM
  #78
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Piqued .... would you mind posting that proposal to the Trade forum if you think it's reasonable?

I'd be interested to see what CGY fans think.

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07-03-2012, 05:41 PM
  #79
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The advanced stats show he played the hardest minutes on a poor team. I hate +/- mainly because a guy like Fistric against scurbs can nearly lead a team in +/- but it makes the guys playing elite offensive talent look like trash.

You also get situations where a high powered offense inflates your +/-.
That's my point...he hasn't played at an elite offensive level in Calgary. I agree Calgary is not the best squad out there, but I have to say that he was expected to provide the offense from the back to complement Iginla et al. there...which he didn't.

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07-03-2012, 05:43 PM
  #80
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That's my point...he hasn't played at an elite offensive level in Calgary. I agree Calgary is not the best squad out there, but I have to say that he was expected to provide the offense from the back to complement Iginla et al. there...which he didn't.
still would have been 2nd on Dallas in defensemen scoring so its not like hes doing nothing out there.

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07-03-2012, 05:44 PM
  #81
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Piqued .... would you mind posting that proposal to the Trade forum if you think it's reasonable?

I'd be interested to see what CGY fans think.
You're going to make me post a proposal sending Fistric away?

I actually wouldn't have a problem with it if it means getting such a significant upgrade and a big body (even if he doesn't use his size). Not sure Flames fans are going to be thrilled.

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07-03-2012, 05:46 PM
  #82
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That's my point...he hasn't played at an elite offensive level in Calgary. I agree Calgary is not the best squad out there, but I have to say that he was expected to provide the offense from the back to complement Iginla et al. there...which he didn't.
You're missing the point of that comment. I'm not talking about his offense. Personally ... I don't care about his offense all that much.

That means shutting down elite offense talent which is his job ... you playing the Sedins or Thornton or Getzlaf ... etc.

That's what he does great. Yes Calgary paid him like a total package. So what. We've got the cap space. We don't have a legit top pair shutdown D that just eats minutes. Plus ... he's essentially a 2 year bridge contract to wait for Oleksaik and Nemeth to develop. Better yet ... they could eventually play with and learn from him in those two years. Plus you never know if could go so well he stays in Dallas.

30 points from a defensive D is good production.

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07-03-2012, 05:46 PM
  #83
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I don't think that we would really be bringing him in for the offense. Let Goose, Larsen, Daley, Whitney have the point on PP opportunities. Give Bouwmeester and perhaps daley the top even strength minutes. In my opinion it would help a ton.

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07-03-2012, 05:51 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by aisforaaron83 View Post
Do you ever watch him play? stats can only show you so much. it is a lot of cash, but he really is worth it for 2 years here.
Briefly...and I don't think he is worth $13.2M over 2 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
You're missing the point of that comment. I'm not talking about his offense. Personally ... I don't care about his offense all that much.

That means shutting down elite offense talent which is his job ... you playing the Sedins or Thornton or Getzlaf ... etc.

That's what he does great. Yes Calgary paid him like a total package. So what. We've got the cap space. We don't have a legit top pair shutdown D that just eats minutes. Plus ... he's essentially a 2 year bridge contract to wait for Oleksaik and Nemeth to develop. Better yet ... they could eventually play with and learn from him in those two years. Plus you never know if could go so well he stays in Dallas.

30 points from a defensive D is good production.
That money is total-package money, which he hasn't lived upto. I agree the eating minutes part and yes, our cap-space is good, but I'd rather I have that money in 2013 for a more deserving UFA.

I guess we have to disagree.

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Old
07-03-2012, 05:57 PM
  #85
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Cut him back about 5 minutes a game should help. He has no business playing 30 minutes a night. He's hands down the best d-man on this team and he's a great giant, huge upgrade over Robidas getting those assignments. So what's the downside? He's expensive, well we're still below the floor with Jagr so why is that an issue?

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07-03-2012, 06:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Cut him back about 5 minutes a game should help. He has no business playing 30 minutes a night. He's hands down the best d-man on this team and he's a great giant, huge upgrade over Robidas getting those assignments. So what's the downside? He's expensive, well we're still below the floor with Jagr so why is that an issue?
His TOI/game average was 25:57 last year, 25:59 in 2010-11 and 25:55 in 2009-10. So, where's the issue?

I agree he is an upgrade over Robidas, but I cannot see that kind of money justified by what he brings.

We still need to re-sign Benn, Bachmann, Garbutt, etc., and will easily make the cap when we're done doing that. We're currently at $49M and need to make it to $54, IIRC.

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07-03-2012, 06:24 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Mark Stepneski ‏@andrewsdsp

GM Joe says he thinks he is pretty much done as far as moves. Says he sees Jagr playing RW with Jamie Benn at C and Loui Eriksson at LW
Not really improving the D, but gotta hope Dillon can make an impact.

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07-03-2012, 06:25 PM
  #88
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So with J-Bo we probably ditch Morrow or Robidas and we're a couple million over the floor. What's the problem? That Gagliardi is spending too much? He's better than what we've got. He's not signed to huge dollars for 5+ years, and while he's overpaid probably a million a year we've got the money. We'll still have money next year without Morrow, Ryder, Roy, Jagr all gone.

Why is the money thing holding you up?

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07-03-2012, 06:25 PM
  #89
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Not really improving the D, but gotta hope Dillon can make an impact.
Ehh its not like he is going to say anything if he did have plans

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07-03-2012, 06:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
So with J-Bo we probably ditch Morrow or Robidas and we're a couple million over the floor. What's the problem? That Gagliardi is spending too much? He's better than what we've got. He's not signed to huge dollars for 5+ years, and while he's overpaid probably a million a year we've got the money. We'll still have money next year without Morrow, Ryder, Roy, Jagr all gone.

Why is the money thing holding you up?
Because I want it well-spent. I thought he was extremely overpaid when Calgary threw money at him and I didn't want that to be us. I expect that we, as a team, spend our money much better than Sutter did in Calgary or Sather did in NYR during the pre-lockout era.

This isn't a worry reg. the floor/cap at all.


Last edited by StarsFan74: 07-03-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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Old
07-03-2012, 06:29 PM
  #91
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Ehh its not like he is going to say anything if he did have plans
Didn't hear anything similar yesterday, after the Roy trade. Or he wasn't asked about his future plans. But now it's getting much harder to make any more huge deals: Resign Benn, Larsen, Bachman. Morrow & Robidas have NTCs...

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07-03-2012, 06:35 PM
  #92
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Didn't hear anything similar yesterday, after the Roy trade. Or he wasn't asked about his future plans. But now it's getting much harder to make any more huge deals: Resign Benn, Larsen, Bachman. Morrow & Robidas have NTCs...
Still a bummer.
It would really feel like a brand new team with the old group gone.
A few picks wouldn't hurt to upgrade the "D" a bit either.

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07-03-2012, 06:37 PM
  #93
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Yea I'll be disappointed if we trade for another D-man, I don't like the way ours is set up right now. But I can understand the difficulty moving Robidas. Having Fistric/Rome battle for the #7 spot is a lot better than we had last year.

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07-03-2012, 06:44 PM
  #94
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Yea I'll be disappointed if we trade for another D-man, I don't like the way ours is set up right now. But I can understand the difficulty moving Robidas. Having Fistric/Rome battle for the #7 spot is a lot better than we had last year.
Between Morrow and he, the latter might be the easier one to move. Montreal maybe?

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07-03-2012, 06:51 PM
  #95
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I don't think Robidas would say yes to Edmonton or the Islanders but if given an opportunity to play for a contender he'd consider it and probably waive.

Morrow is the trickier one. He should be on the way out but his wife is from here and he's played here all his career so you just never know how he'll respond if asked to waive.

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07-03-2012, 07:01 PM
  #96
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So if there a no more moves can we start talking about line combos?

my early guess (im also guessing who makes it out of camp)

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Whitney-Roy-Ryder
Eakin-Fiddler-Nystrom
Morrow-Wandell-Fraser

(second half of year im hoping Smith and chiasson get ice time)

Goligoski-Larsen
Daley-Fistric
Robidas-Rome

Dillon 7th but has to wait for the 1st month or two to get time

Lehtonen
Bachman

PP unit 1

Eriksson-Jagr-Benn
Whitney-Goligoski

PP unit 2

Ryder-Morrow-Roy
Larsen-Robidas

PK

Eriksson-Fiddler
Daley-Goligoski

unit 2

Benn-??
Robidas-Larsen

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Old
07-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #97
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Ralph Strangis ‏@RalphStrangis

Friends to be honest I'm very excited about the mix. And thats not spin. I've been critical of things the last 4 yrs. I like this alot.
No shock that Ralph hasn't been a fan of the past few years.

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07-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #98
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They absolutely will not have Dillon in the pressbox in Dallas. Either he's in our he's in Austin.

The bottom line guys really depend on Morrow's health, Eakin (ready or not?) and how they want to use Fiddler.

I'd prefer:

Fraser-Eakin-Vincour
Nystrom-Fiddler-Sceviour
Wandell

But if Fraser needs more time or they don't like that combo there's some flexibility.

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07-03-2012, 07:15 PM
  #99
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No shock that Ralph hasn't been a fan of the past few years.
Watching this crap for the last four years had to be just a big a beating for him as it was for us. Maybe even worse because he lives and breathes it way more than even we do.

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07-03-2012, 07:24 PM
  #100
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