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Would you support eliminating the salary cap and revenue sharing?

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:46 PM
  #51
*Injektilo
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Originally Posted by sabresfan129103 View Post
I never understood this. Why do people want dynasties? It's boring when the same team wins it 4 years in a row.
Look back at the Canadiens of 75-79. When you think of the players of those teams, do you feel disgust over the domination, or awe about how they were some of the best teams hockey has ever seen?

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07-03-2012, 10:47 PM
  #52
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Not a fan of the cap. If a particular market can't compete then maybe it shouldn't be an NHL market...that's how my team ended up in Carolina and nobody lost any sleep over it except us Whalers fans. Lose the cap, lose a half-dozen fringe markets with lousy buildings, cheap owners, and fanbases that just aren't large enough to support an NHL team. Lose 120 of the league's worst players, then you've got a better product, in more hockey-minded cities.

It's funny how all these billionaire owners got rich in a capitalist economic system, then the minute they buy a sports team they become far-left socialists who want to share everything.

Or, alternately, couple the salary cap with a ticket price/concessions/parking price cap. Yea, I'm sure that would ever happen.

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07-03-2012, 10:48 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Look back at the Canadiens of 75-79. When you think of the players of those teams, do you feel disgust over the domination, or awe about how they were some of the best teams hockey has ever seen?
I think of tyranny.

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07-03-2012, 10:50 PM
  #54
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Even though it would seem that a cap-free league would benefit the Rangers, the reality has been quite different. The salary cap is the best thing that ever happened to this team.

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07-03-2012, 10:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sabresfan129103 View Post
I never understood this. Why do people want dynasties? It's boring when the same team wins it 4 years in a row.
Because winning the cup 'means more' in a dynasty dominated league.

Here's what i mean.

In a cap world, the idea is to get every team to be on 'equal footing' for lack of a better term. That means, the league is trying to make the sport equivalent to putting 30 names in a hat and picking out the winner. One year its your turn, the next year its the other guy's turn. In a perfect world, the league would see all 30 teams win 1 cup in the next 30 seasons.

It seems that with 30 "equal teams" in the sport, winning the cup is more of a random occurance, a coin flip, than you actually winning it because you were good and were the 'best team'.

As fans of cup winning teams, we all like to believe we won because we were the best....but the way the league is structured, its more like there were 30 ping pong balls spinning and your number just happened to get called.

Give me the dynasty...in sports where there are dynasties, you know you have to be GOOD to win a title and not just having it be 'your turn'.

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07-03-2012, 10:58 PM
  #56
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To me, there should be a cap and it should be lowered. It's ridiculous how much these athletes get paid. If someone offered me food and shelter to play hockey every day for ~20 years, I'd take it in an instant.

Also, parity is a good thing. I like the fact that teams have to go through rebuilds, that teams get years of absolutely nothing and can become powerhouses all of the sudden (see Pittsburgh). If the standings have the same powerhouses, the same middle-of-the-pack teams and the same bottom-feeders every year, it's gonna get boring.

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07-03-2012, 11:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by dan1el View Post
To me, there should be a cap and it should be lowered. It's ridiculous how much these athletes get paid. If someone offered me food and shelter to play hockey every day for ~20 years, I'd take it in an instant.

Also, parity is a good thing. I like the fact that teams have to go through rebuilds, that teams get years of absolutely nothing and can become powerhouses all of the sudden (see Pittsburgh). If the standings have the same powerhouses, the same middle-of-the-pack teams and the same bottom-feeders every year, it's gonna get boring.
That's fine as long as we're capping fan expenses like tickets and parking and food and jerseys and caps (fitted or snapbacks). If not then I'd rather see the millionaire players on the ice getting paid than the billionaire owners upstairs. If you lower the cap alone that's just more money in ownership's pockets. No thanks.

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07-03-2012, 11:06 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
Because winning the cup 'means more' in a dynasty dominated league.

Here's what i mean.

In a cap world, the idea is to get every team to be on 'equal footing' for lack of a better term. That means, the league is trying to make the sport equivalent to putting 30 names in a hat and picking out the winner. One year its your turn, the next year its the other guy's turn. In a perfect world, the league would see all 30 teams win 1 cup in the next 30 seasons.

It seems that with 30 "equal teams" in the sport, winning the cup is more of a random occurance, a coin flip, than you actually winning it because you were good and were the 'best team'.

As fans of cup winning teams, we all like to believe we won because we were the best....but the way the league is structured, its more like there were 30 ping pong balls spinning and your number just happened to get called.

Give me the dynasty...in sports where there are dynasties, you know you have to be GOOD to win a title and not just having it be 'your turn'.
Turns? Edmonton has had three number one picks in a row. Pittsburgh had four picks in the top 2 from 03-06. The Leafs haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. On the oposite end of the spectrum, when was the last time Detroit missed the playoffs?

With a cap, teams need to draft wisely, pick their players wisely, and develop them wisely. Imagine if Toronto just signed Parise, Suter, Semin, and Jagr on 20 million/per deals, and then offer sheeted Weber and Karlsson 25 million each, etc, etc. Obviously that's going to be the most talented team, they had their rich owner spend his fortune on winning.

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07-03-2012, 11:07 PM
  #59
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The lowest average team salary in the MLB is more than 3x less than the highest.
That is really, really stupid.
In other words, "no".

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07-03-2012, 11:08 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1el View Post
Turns? Edmonton has had three number one picks in a row. Pittsburgh had four picks in the top 2 from 03-06. The Leafs haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. On the oposite end of the spectrum, when was the last time Detroit missed the playoffs?

With a cap, teams need to draft wisely, pick their players wisely, and develop them wisely. Imagine if Toronto just signed Parise, Suter, Semin, and Jagr on 20 million/per deals, and then offer sheeted Weber and Karlsson 25 million each, etc, etc. Obviously that's going to be the most talented team, they had their rich owner spend his fortune on winning.
Yes, and Edmontons 'turn' is coming. Detroit's time is done. (for now) its a vicious cycle for sure.

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07-03-2012, 11:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Not a fan of the cap. If a particular market can't compete then maybe it shouldn't be an NHL market...that's how my team ended up in Carolina and nobody lost any sleep over it except us Whalers fans. Lose the cap, lose a half-dozen fringe markets with lousy buildings, cheap owners, and fanbases that just aren't large enough to support an NHL team. Lose 120 of the league's worst players, then you've got a better product, in more hockey-minded cities.

It's funny how all these billionaire owners got rich in a capitalist economic system, then the minute they buy a sports team they become far-left socialists who want to share everything.

Or, alternately, couple the salary cap with a ticket price/concessions/parking price cap. Yea, I'm sure that would ever happen.
And the second that is done it will create another group of teams in that group and before long the league will be gone. Also after doing that to so many people the trust of the league will be gone. So good luck expanding and trying to actually growing the game. And what are you going to use as a fan base that is not willing to support a team the adv. attendance? If so you realize Winnipeg is in that group since they have such a small arena. Or are you going to use a percentage of the arena filled? In that case both Colorado and Carolina would be gone and they both adv. over 600K fans a year. But I am sure it happening to Carolina wouldn't be bad to you.

Yes they want to share because it is in their collective best interest to do so. They are obviously doing something right. Seven straight years of increased revenue since the lockout.

I do find it ironic you are complaining about being on the wrong side of a moving team yet you think it would be good to just piss off that many more fans by just closing their teams down. And then opening new teams later.

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07-03-2012, 11:09 PM
  #62
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Yes 100%

I can't wait for the crying to start about how the cap isn't working when Pittsburgh signs Parise AND Suter...

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07-03-2012, 11:11 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
No, the salary cap is essential to ensure parity in this league.

We should be following the NFL's model, which has allowed that league to grow into the most popular NA sports league and enjoy unprecedented success. If you want to watch the same few teams dominate leagues, go watch soccer or baseball.

Contrary to your flawed post, the salary cap is the MOST fair way. It is apt that a user with the name Kadri43 would try to eliminate managerial skill from the equation and put an emphasis on buying championships.
The NFL Salary cap is very different then the NHL cap, most glaring fact is that they do theirs properly. And the premiership has higher ratings and more revenue the NFL. Granted Baseball is number 2 but not close behind.

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07-03-2012, 11:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
No I don't want to watch every single top UFA go to Montreal, Toronto, NYR, etc while the other teams are just farm teams for them.
I guess you could always blame the CAP if your city isn't appealing? What does Calagry offer that comes close the NYC? Probably nothing so to say the cap is why they won't go there is not entirely the truth.

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07-03-2012, 11:18 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Not a fan of the cap. If a particular market can't compete then maybe it shouldn't be an NHL market...that's how my team ended up in Carolina and nobody lost any sleep over it except us Whalers fans. Lose the cap, lose a half-dozen fringe markets with lousy buildings, cheap owners, and fanbases that just aren't large enough to support an NHL team. Lose 120 of the league's worst players, then you've got a better product, in more hockey-minded cities.

It's funny how all these billionaire owners got rich in a capitalist economic system, then the minute they buy a sports team they become far-left socialists who want to share everything.

Or, alternately, couple the salary cap with a ticket price/concessions/parking price cap. Yea, I'm sure that would ever happen.
People in parts of Canada and Middle America want things talierd to them. If many of these cities lost their team, they would lose relevance to pop culture. In some cases the NHL comes some cities from being Louisville or Dayton Ohio.

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07-03-2012, 11:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
People in parts of Canada and Middle America want things talierd to them. If many of these cities lost their team, they would lose relevance to pop culture. In some cases the NHL comes some cities from being Louisville or Dayton Ohio.
What the **** does that even mean?

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07-03-2012, 11:57 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Not a fan of the cap. If a particular market can't compete then maybe it shouldn't be an NHL market...that's how my team ended up in Carolina and nobody lost any sleep over it except us Whalers fans. Lose the cap, lose a half-dozen fringe markets with lousy buildings, cheap owners, and fanbases that just aren't large enough to support an NHL team. Lose 120 of the league's worst players, then you've got a better product, in more hockey-minded cities.
If you honestly believe that that is what would happen, you're sadly mistaken. Just remember what happened during the 1990s, and then allow me to explain that salary escalation trickles down from the top. Hell, just look at MLB in the last 20 years. When Barry Bonds signed a contract that paid him $7 million a year back in 1993, the next highest-paid player in baseball was making less than half of that. Within five years (while Bonds' contract was still in effect), the $10 million barrier had been broken...before long, it was $15 million.

Player A hits free agency. Several teams, in a rush to add a valuable piece to the puzzle, are willing to pay through the nose for him. If this means that he becomes the highest-paid player at his position in the league, even though he's not the best at his position, that's what it means. Player A signs. Players B, C, D, and E are all looking at contract extensions with their current teams. Each agent looks to Player A's contract as a comparable and says, "Okay, we're not asking for what he's making. But my client produces more offense/plays more tough minutes/has no injury history, so we're looking to close that gap." Players B and C sign extensions for massive raises that put them among the highest-paid players in the league, and D and E have good years and hit free agency. Player F, one of the best in the game, has retired, and D and E are hotly pursued...they then become the highest-paid in the game at their position.

Don't believe this exact scenario would happen? Look at the last 20 years in MLB and the NHL and learn otherwise. And what happens in that scenario isn't that it's the weakest who are lost, it's that everyone who isn't obscenely well-heeled is crippled. NHL teams all during the 1990s were developing prospects into NHL players, then being forced to trade them for more prospects because of the fear of losing them for nothing in free agency...then they develop those prospects, and the cycle repeats. And one wrong move with a star player would be devastating. If you think Calgary has been middling with Jarome Iginla, imagine how much worse the last 15 years would be if they'd taken Todd Harvey in the Nieuwendyk trade instead of Iginla.

Right now, without a cap and revenue sharing, Ryan Suter would become the highest-paid defenseman in the game. And he'd be drawing a salary that Brian Campbell could only envy. If you don't think that Shea Weber would start demanding Suter-type money, or at least 90% of that, in order to sign, I don't know what to tell you. Nashville at that point would have to either trade Weber's rights for picks and prospects, or else lose him to an offer sheet. And every defenseman looking at an expiring contract in the next two years would be holding off for free agency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
People in parts of Canada and Middle America want things talierd to them. If many of these cities lost their team, they would lose relevance to pop culture. In some cases the NHL comes some cities from being Louisville or Dayton Ohio.
Ohio once had 6 NFL teams in a single season. All either folded or packed up and moved.

This has nothing to do with "tailoring" to anything.

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07-04-2012, 12:04 AM
  #68
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Necessary evil? I dont think the league can maintain 30 teams without it.

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07-04-2012, 12:04 AM
  #69
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I'm ok with the salary cap but the lower limit needs to be higher. Revenue sharing is ok but teams that pay into it should be allowed to go above the cap by 50% of what they pay.
And I hate the draft but understand the need for it.
That said bring in territorial rights for one or two players per team per year.

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07-04-2012, 12:04 AM
  #70
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As a Ranger fan, yes I would.

Sign Malkin for 10 yrs 200 mil contract. lol

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07-04-2012, 12:12 AM
  #71
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As a Pens fan seeing both ends of the spectrum, I love the cap. We got ourselves into trouble trying to compete, and making it fair gave us a chance. Now that the team is playing well (and has a rich owner) we could pretty much go out and buy a championship, but I still like keeping the field level.

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07-04-2012, 12:41 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by puckyeah View Post
I think a capless sport is the best thing, a capless sport mimics real life....there are haves and havenots and nobody ever said anything has to be fair.
The dog eat dog survival of the fittest philosophy does not work in a franchise system. Do McDonald`s franchises compete with other McDonald`s franchises and try to drive them out out of business. While teams may compete on the ice, off of it they are all franchises in partnership in a league together.

How does it benefit Toronto if half the teams in the league are in financial trouble and teams are folding or moving constantly. How does it make Toronto richer if the league is perceived as a failing sport and advertisers shy away from it, and networks are not willing to pay as much to broadcast your games.

The healthier the league is as a whole, the more profit there is for all the teams to split up.

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07-04-2012, 12:44 AM
  #73
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Just another "no" vote to setting the league back a decade.

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07-04-2012, 01:28 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
I'm ok with the salary cap but the lower limit needs to be higher. Revenue sharing is ok but teams that pay into it should be allowed to go above the cap by 50% of what they pay.
And I hate the draft but understand the need for it.
That said bring in territorial rights for one or two players per team per year.
Not sure why you think the lower end needs to be higher at the 16mil mark it only works out to an adv of 700k a player for a 23 man roster. And because it is a set amount not a percentage the percentage has actually dropped year after year. And I think it will end up going to a percentage which is exactly what you don't want.

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07-04-2012, 01:52 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
FYI:Boston, Detroit, Chicago, LA are not "small market teams"

The Cubs actually market the losing and their historical ballpark. The Jackets don't have the drawing power of Wrigley Field to depend on.
The Cubs have generations of fans - the Jackets... don't. Let them get 20 - 25 years of history under thir belt before judging them or their "small market" fans.

The Jackets are the only professional game in town, they can only get better and more popular.

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