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Brophy: "Burke has the right idea"

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Old
07-03-2012, 09:34 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Kirkpatrick View Post
I'd rather have one more year of Connolly at 4.5 than two more years of Jokinen at 4.5.
I couldn't agree more.

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07-03-2012, 09:35 PM
  #77
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I wish HFBoards had a highlight feature so I could mark posters as morons and know not to waste time reading their thoughts in the future.

On topic, Burke is doing a good enough job. Stay the course and don't sell the farm. I admire his patience, even if it draws the ire of certain fans who can't delay gratification.

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07-03-2012, 09:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
I wish HFBoards had a highlight feature so I could mark posters as morons and know not to waste time reading their thoughts in the future.
The ignore function is a handy tool. Use it! Makes everything much better.

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07-03-2012, 09:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
I wish HFBoards had a highlight feature so I could mark posters as morons and know not to waste time reading their thoughts in the future.

On topic, Burke is doing a good enough job. Stay the course and don't sell the farm. I admire his patience, even if it draws the ire of certain fans who can't delay gratification.
I agree except calling people morons in the forums bit

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Old
07-03-2012, 09:39 PM
  #80
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its promising that BB has identified the weaknesses correctly and is attempting to rectify them.

now the hard part:
actually getting those pieces, not just talking about it.

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07-03-2012, 09:49 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
I wish HFBoards had a highlight feature so I could mark posters as morons and know not to waste time reading their thoughts in the future.

On topic, Burke is doing a good enough job. Stay the course and don't sell the farm. I admire his patience, even if it draws the ire of certain fans who can't delay gratification.
I agree that I like Burkes current patience, but his lack of patience early on really hurt the teams longterm future. But, I think he realized the quick retool was clearly not going to work, and since then he has sold off Kaberle and Beauchemin, kept his picks, and focused much more on drafting. He's still made mistakes in the last few years, but I definitely prefer what he's done recently.

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07-03-2012, 09:49 PM
  #82
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Burke is doing a marvelous job, he hasn't made any mistakes this offseason, and he made a trade that really may be one of his best if JVR regains his playoff form 2 seasons ago. The farm team is well stocked and successful, he drafted 2 possible studs on D. This team is turning into the NA style of team he promised. Biggs, Ross, Devane, Rupert, Ashton, Frattin, see a pattern. Back to Leafs hockey, Bay st bullies...

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
See... this is where leafs fans completely and utterly lack perspective.

Burke inherited a team that missed the playoffs 3 seasons in a row. Then Burke followed that up by missing the playoffs 4 seasons in a row.

With all of that combined, our prospects and young players should be elite, ala Edmonton (a rebuild done correctly).

If the leafs had squeezed into a playoff position for the past 4 seasons, I would expect our prospects to look similar to what they currently are. Mediocre. You finish at a mediocre position in the standings, you by and large get mediocre prospects (of course there are rare exceptions, rather than rules, so don`t bother pointing that out).

But the leafs have finished bottom 10 four years in a row. A 2nd freaking overall pick, 5th, 7th, and 9th.
Yet only have mediocre prospects to show for it, considering where they`ve placed in the standings.
Of course our prospects are better now than when Burke took over. That`s not really saying much. WE`VE FINISHED BOTTOM 10 FOUR YEARS IN A ROW. OF COURSE OUR PROSPECTS WILL IMPROVE.

But it`s how much they`ve improved that is the question. If this team was GM`d by a donkey, and I mean literally the barn yard animal, our prospects would be about as mediocre as they are now.
Let alone our apparant upgrade of a donkey, the highest paid GM in league history, with the highest paid scouting department in league history, with the highest paid front office in league history.
Once all of that is added into the equation, Burke`s reign of terror starts to look flat out humiliating.

If the plan was to finish bottom 10 four years in a row, why not take the ****ing Edmonton approach and have a flat out elite young team going into the future as opposed to the mediocre mess Burke has assembled.
Angry guy.... we didn`t deal a 2nd,9th, 31st.....


IN the end we have:
Kessel
Rielly
JVR
Kadri
Biggs
Percy

These are our direct picks or a one for one trade (jvr) from our direct top pick since the ``downfall`` of the Leafs as you put it..

OR

Schenn
Seguin
Kadri
Hamilton
Rielly

Though this is a foolish exercise because there is no way to predict what else may have happened if that deal didn`t (Phaneuf, Colborne, Gardiner, Lupul etc)

SO really....

It`s Seguin,Hamilton, Schenn
Vs.
Kessel, JVR, Biggs, Percy

Not sure we aren`t on top at the end of that small and flawed comparison anyway


All players mentioned will be effective for another 10+ years.... so it doesn;t really matter if they are 20 or 23

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:26 PM
  #84
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Burke's Major Mistakes:

Connolly
Komisarek
Armstrong
Letting Giguere go

Questionable moves (to some)

Kessel Deal
The return of some of the deck clearing players

Burke's good moves:

Everything else (which is a lot).


We've never had a GM with this kind of record. Yeah the results aren't there yet in the standings but we were the worst team in hockey 4 years ago in every respect. Who are we kidding here? The Leafs were as barren as an expansion team and were organizationally the weakest since the Ballard years, perhaps weaker.

This organization was desperate which is why we hired Burke in the first place. We needed a guy to gut the place in every conceivable way, and he did it.

There's a lot of stuff we don't see. Our GM is nowhere close to losing his job or control of the future of the franchise.

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:29 PM
  #85
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No instead of doing what the Jets did with Jokinen, Burke in fact ALREADY did that with Tim Connolly last year and learned what a ****ing horrible ****** mistake that was.

He is now famously part of LCK formerly known as LACK.

Shutup Brophy!

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:32 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/free_...e_free_agency/

i hope this brings an end to all this current Burke bashing. you have to give Burke the benefit of righting this team in a *New* season. you can't keep ripping him preemptively. he's made a few minor moves so far and we've improved as a team with each transaction.



Go Leafs Go!
Jokinen scored 61pts last season and signed a contract as a ufa for 2 years and 4.5 per
Grabovski scored 51pts last season and signed a contract as a ufa to be for 5.5 per and has NEVER made the playoffs as that seems important to a players value for some reason.

I'm not sure why Jokinen was used as an example because that's a nice ufa contract.

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Old
07-03-2012, 11:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
I think I asked him before what he would rather spend the money on (or who he would rather spend the money on, can't remember) and I think I got ignored. One of those people who will bash ideas and moves that are done without offering up any other alternatives that are better.
Burke took one approach, and four years later, we have mediocre prospects, and a lousy team that just finished 5th last.

Tambellini took another approach, and four years later, while also still having a lousy team (currently), they also have the best young core of players I've seen in a very god damn long time.

I'm not comparing Burke to myself. I'm comparing him to other GM's in the league. Especially since Burke is the highest paid GM in the entire leagues history, there should be extra expectations (just like with the highest paid PLAYERS in the league).

Burke's made idiotic decisions since arriving. Tambellini has been a genius and has created nothing short of the beginnings of a dynasty.

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Old
07-03-2012, 11:14 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Your blind rage absolutely clouds your view of reality.

What's the point of starring out F-bombs in your post, when you could use big boy words, and not make yourself out to be a boorish little pratt in the process?
Maybe instead of writing "moderator of logic" under your username, you should write;
"Moderator of condescending self-righteous psychobabble".

It's an internet forum. Nobody's interested in your patronizing lessons on language etiquette.

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Old
07-03-2012, 11:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Burke took one approach, and four years later, we have mediocre prospects, and a lousy team that just finished 5th last.

Tambellini took another approach, and four years later, while also still having a lousy team (currently), they also have the best young core of players I've seen in a very god damn long time.

I'm not comparing Burke to myself. I'm comparing him to other GM's in the league. Especially since Burke is the highest paid GM in the entire leagues history, there should be extra expectations (just like with the highest paid PLAYERS in the league).

Burke's made idiotic decisions since arriving. Tambellini has been a genius and has created nothing short of the beginnings of a dynasty.
The Oilers are really overrated right now.

People look at them and they think Quebec Nordiques in the early 90s and the Penguins of the mid 2000s but let's face it, none of their shiny new kids have proven anything remotely close to what Sakic/Sundin/Nolan/Forsberg etc. were doing or what Crosby and Malkin were during their first couple of seasons. Or even what Toews and Kane were doing for Chicago a few years ago.

As it stands right now, Eberle, Hall, RHN and company haven't done anything even better than Tavares, Parenteau and Moulson on the Island. (I know Parenteau and Moulson are older, just using an example of the level of play they're at.

If the Oilers come out with a 100 point season next year, I'll give them their dues, but right now, it's just a big hype show.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have their players too, but it's so overrated in Edmonton right now.

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07-03-2012, 11:20 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Oilers are really overrated right now.

People look at them and they think Quebec Nordiques in the early 90s and the Penguins of the mid 2000s but let's face it, none of their shiny new kids have proven anything remotely close to what Sakic/Sundin/Nolan/Forsberg etc. were doing or what Crosby and Malkin were during their first couple of seasons. Or even what Toews and Kane were doing for Chicago a few years ago.

As it stands right now, Eberle, Hall, RHN and company haven't done anything even better than Tavares, Parenteau and Moulson on the Island. (I know Parenteau and Moulson are older, just using an example of the level of play they're at.

If the Oilers come out with a 100 point season next year, I'll give them their dues, but right now, it's just a big hype show.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have their players too, but it's so overrated in Edmonton right now.
Some fans have the same over rated opinion of Phaneuf, Kessel, the leafs and their prospects and Burke.

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Old
07-03-2012, 11:24 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
Burke's Major Mistakes:

Connolly
Komisarek
Armstrong
Letting Giguere go

Questionable moves (to some)

Kessel Deal
The return of some of the deck clearing players

Burke's good moves:

Everything else (which is a lot).


We've never had a GM with this kind of record. Yeah the results aren't there yet in the standings but we were the worst team in hockey 4 years ago in every respect. Who are we kidding here? The Leafs were as barren as an expansion team and were organizationally the weakest since the Ballard years, perhaps weaker.

This organization was desperate which is why we hired Burke in the first place. We needed a guy to gut the place in every conceivable way, and he did it.

There's a lot of stuff we don't see. Our GM is nowhere close to losing his job or control of the future of the franchise.
If the leafs were "barren as an expansion team" when Burke arrived, then why did Burke immediately trade away his next two first round picks?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to continue writing this exact sentence everytime that I read someone defending Burke by saying that the team was "barren" when Burke arrived.

I might actually do a search every morning when I wake up to see how many people wrote it, and do my usual reply.

If people are allowed to continuously write that the team was "barren" when Burke arrived, I should 100% be allowed to counter that argument every time.

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07-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by jboknows View Post
I think a lot of people on here will be surprised with tim connoly this year... he has the talent to be the #1 centre, it just didn't come together last year.
That's what many people in Buffalo were saying for many years before he signed with us.

He's shown glimpses of being awesome. Seriously. He can dangle, he can almost dangle in Gaborik territory. But he's slower than Bozak, and has the endurance of my socks.

I don't agree with the article's slander on Connolly's contract. He was only signed for 2 years as a trial. And the term he was signed for was not outrageous. His history warranted it. He was making $4.5mil before he signed here.

Stupid journalism at its worst. Only things he could possibly rant about were Armstrong and Komi. Trading Beauchemin (who basically sucked for us) yielded two gems, and Connolly's out after this season, or back for a significant pay cut.

I honestly wonder why journalists even get paid these days. They don't even make any sense anymore.

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07-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Some fans have the same over rated opinion of Phaneuf, Kessel, the leafs and their prospects and Burke.
Not making a comment about Burke and the Leafs. But for all we know, the Leafs could be doing it right and the Oilers wrong, or we could both be building bad teams. I just don't see the apparent greatness in Edmonton yet.

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07-03-2012, 11:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Oilers are really overrated right now.

People look at them and they think Quebec Nordiques in the early 90s and the Penguins of the mid 2000s but let's face it, none of their shiny new kids have proven anything remotely close to what Sakic/Sundin/Nolan/Forsberg etc. were doing or what Crosby and Malkin were during their first couple of seasons. Or even what Toews and Kane were doing for Chicago a few years ago.

As it stands right now, Eberle, Hall, RHN and company haven't done anything even better than Tavares, Parenteau and Moulson on the Island. (I know Parenteau and Moulson are older, just using an example of the level of play they're at.

If the Oilers come out with a 100 point season next year, I'll give them their dues, but right now, it's just a big hype show.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have their players too, but it's so overrated in Edmonton right now.
If you try comparing Edmonton's young core to the Penguins of the mid 2000's or the Nordiques of the early 90's, people will at least entertain the argument.

Now try comparing the LEAFS young core of players to the old Pens or Nordiques.
To put it politely... that argument would not be entertained. That argument would be ignored. If you made a thread on the main board making the comparison, you would receive an infraction for trolling.

And that's exactly what I mean about Burke. He's done a ****** god damn rebuild. If we were going to miss the playoffs (and not really even be close) for 4 straight years, our young core of players should look MUCH ****ing better than they currently do.

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Old
07-03-2012, 11:35 PM
  #95
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Not making a comment about Burke and the Leafs. But for all we know, the Leafs could be doing it right and the Oilers wrong, or we could both be building bad teams. I just don't see the apparent greatness in Edmonton yet.
I don't believe that you have the ability to look at things objectively. I really don't.

If the leafs had eberle, Hopkins, Hall, and Yukapov, you would be saying something entirely different.

I genuinely wish that it was possible to take you, flash forward into an alternate reality where the leafs had those players, and have you read what your other self thinks about them. And if Edmonton had our current roster, what you would write about them.

It would be the most humbling experience of your life. Maybe in all human existence.

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07-03-2012, 11:50 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If the leafs were "barren as an expansion team" when Burke arrived, then why did Burke immediately trade away his next two first round picks?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to continue writing this exact sentence everytime that I read someone defending Burke by saying that the team was "barren" when Burke arrived.

I might actually do a search every morning when I wake up to see how many people wrote it, and do my usual reply.

If people are allowed to continuously write that the team was "barren" when Burke arrived, I should 100% be allowed to counter that argument every time.
I'm making no judgements of that particular roster, but perhaps a team could be barren of prospects and youth but competitive on the ice. Running on fumes, if you will. I can certainly imagine that such a thing could exist in professional sports.

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07-03-2012, 11:53 PM
  #97
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I'm making no judgements of that particular roster, but perhaps a team could be barren of prospects and youth but competitive on the ice. Running on fumes, if you will. I can certainly imagine that such a thing could exist in professional sports.
I reiterate...
if that were the case, and the cupboards were utterly bare while there was an arguably competitive team on the ice...
do you really think trading your next two first round picks seems like an intelligent decision?

Wouldn't stocking those god damn barren cupboards be priority number one?

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07-03-2012, 11:59 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I agree that I like Burkes current patience, but his lack of patience early on really hurt the teams longterm future. But, I think he realized the quick retool was clearly not going to work, and since then he has sold off Kaberle and Beauchemin, kept his picks, and focused much more on drafting. He's still made mistakes in the last few years, but I definitely prefer what he's done recently.
I agree and whatever happened to the man that said “I-have-no-patience-for-a-five-year-plan”

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07-04-2012, 12:01 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I reiterate...
if that were the case, and the cupboards were utterly bare while there was an arguably competitive team on the ice...
do you really think trading your next two first round picks seems like an intelligent decision?

Wouldn't stocking those god damn barren cupboards be priority number one?
They were not "bare" - there were assets.
They were just below average compared to other teams in the NHL (I think hockey futures ranked them 17th overall back in 2008). With Burke they improved but to see bare is hyperbolic.

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07-04-2012, 12:04 AM
  #100
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They were not "bare" - there were assets.
They were just below average compared to other teams in the NHL (I think hockey futures ranked them 17th overall back in 2008). With Burke they improved but to see bare is hyperbolic.
If they were ranked 17th in 08 then we were ranked lower by HF before this draft .

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