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Luongo XIX - The Return Is Not Phaneuf

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Old
07-04-2012, 03:31 AM
  #101
Dread Clawz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
I don't think there is anywhere near as much ego stroking involved in this process as you suggest.

Mike Gillis has an idea of what he and the Canucks management team feel is a fair return for Roberto Luongo. That value hasn't been met so far, so Luongo has not been traded.

If you look at his history of dealing, he is nothing if not patient. Look at the Mats Sundin signing. They arrived at a deal in principle in July, but Sundin didn't sign until December. All the while the fans and media were speculating and machinating over if and when the deal would get done. The David Booth deal seemed to come out of nowhere, then Gillis explains that when they acquired Chris Higgins the previous season at the deadline, they were actually trying to get Booth, but Talon offered Higgins. They conversation continued in the off season and resulted in a trade in October.

Gillis said on the radio the other day that HE is the obstacle to the trade - he hasn't seen a proposal that he is willing to pull the trigger on yet.

The Canucks have plenty of cap space and their only real hole right now is a 2nd line centre until Kesler is healthy and ready to play at 100%. Luongo and Schneider are good friends and get along great. A tandem arrangement is not out of the question. While the fans may be anxious, Gillis doesn't have to hurry to make this deal. Between now and the trade deadline, some starting goalie is going to either suck or get injured. There aren't any other goalies of Luongo's pedigree likely to come onto the market.

I also don't think that Brian Burke or Dale Talon have as much emotionally invested in this ordeal as the fans of the respective fan bases (including Vancouver fans) have. It's simple. Either team would love to have Luongo, but they are reluctant to create even bigger holes in their roster in order to acquire him. James Reimer and Jose Theodore are high risk options. Regardless of what has been publicly said, I don't think either GM has a great degree of confidence in going into the next season with Reimer or Theodore as starter. Toronto has a slightly higher risk, because they also don't have a veteran backup. That can be quickly remedied.
How is Theodore a high risk option? The Panthers made the playoffs with him as the starter.

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07-04-2012, 03:41 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
How is Theodore a high risk option? The Panthers made the playoffs with him as the starter.
And, all things considered, it's going to be very difficult for them to do so again if they don't make an effort to improve (and not just at goal).

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07-04-2012, 03:48 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
How is Theodore a high risk option? The Panthers made the playoffs with him as the starter.
The Canucks made the playoffs with Cloutier multiple times. What's your point?

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07-04-2012, 03:53 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Every time I see a quantity for franchise player deal I get worried.

Luongo was traded for
Auld - promising goalie ---> career backup
Bertuzzi - 1st line powerforward --> severe regression to a 2/3rd liner
Allen - top 4 d-man with potential --> #4/5 on a contender

Phaneuf was traded for
Stajan - 55 point #2C --> overpaid #4C
Hagman - 2nd line W --> 4th liner
White - #3/4 d-man --> #4 d-man

Anytime a star player is traded for 2nd tier assets from a lesser hockey club the lesser assets usually regress.

I think it's because the lesser players (tweeners like Kulemin/MacArthur or "#1 goalies" like Auld) enjoy top 6 time and opportunities on a bad team. When they're relegated to a lesser role their production dips.

If I was Gillis I hold out til I can get 1 good player back.
I tend to agree. That's kinda why I'm hoping that Gillis can find a deal where he gets a similar player on a similar contract back. If he waits until the regular season is underway, he may very well get it. TBH, if the returns for Luongo are so terrible, you're better off gambling.

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Old
07-04-2012, 03:58 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
And, all things considered, it's going to be very difficult for them to do so again if they don't make an effort to improve (and not just at goal).
They probably should try to improve but they are a team with a limited budget and the assets they are willing to move are limited. They have a great group of young players and prospects but they aren't really willing to move them.

Now are they better to use those limited assets and budget space to improve their goaltending which was great last year or improve their team up front where they were weak last year. Because budget wise and expendable asset wist it would be very tough to do both.

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07-04-2012, 04:03 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
The Canucks made the playoffs with Cloutier multiple times. What's your point?
Theo has had a .910 save% or better 4 of the last 5 years. He has been a good goalie since leaving Colorado.
Theo is not Cloutier.

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07-04-2012, 04:04 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
And, all things considered, it's going to be very difficult for them to do so again if they don't make an effort to improve (and not just at goal).
OK, yeah I don't know about very difficult, but they do have to add another forward, for sure. They can make the playoffs with Theodore and Clemmer again. And I still don't see how Theo is a high risk option. Other areas of the team, namely scoring, have to improve, before Theodore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
The Canucks made the playoffs with Cloutier multiple times. What's your point?
My point is that the Panthers skaters are not the early 2000's Canucks skaters. The Panthers' goaltending was probably the main reason the Panthers made the playoffs last season, yet people are trying to spin it like the Panthers made the playoffs in spite of their goaltending.

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07-04-2012, 05:47 AM
  #108
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i just want it to end

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07-04-2012, 07:18 AM
  #109
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I don't know if this has been said (...thats a lot of checking.), but if I was Detroit I would be all over Luongo - The I would send Jimmy Howard to the Maple Leafs to replenish some of the assets I lost to Vancouver - Go with a Luongo/Gustavsson pairing for a year or two til McCollum is ready to replace Jonas. Detroit has the cap space, and Luongo is much more experienced & consistent than Howard IMO (especially without Lids in front of him - could get them back to the finals before the Zet/Dat/Mule/Bert window closes and Detroit needs a reboot.

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07-04-2012, 07:20 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
The Canucks made the playoffs with Cloutier multiple times. What's your point?
They even made the playoffs with Luongo a few times.

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07-04-2012, 07:57 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
These threads are insane.

Fact: We are all operating with imperfect information. None of us are aware of the trade market for Luongo, partially or completely.

Fact: GMMG has a far greater idea of what Luongo's trade value is if one assumes he has talked to other GMs about potential offers.

Insanity: People feel they are in a position to state "how it's going to be".
Not to argue, but regarding you 2nd "fact", when both GM's rumoured to be interested (Tallon and Burke) both come out in the media and say Gillis is out to lunch, maybe Gillis isn't close to knowing Luongo's value.

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07-04-2012, 08:01 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
The Canucks made the playoffs with Cloutier multiple times. What's your point?
Theo is better than Cloutier.

And if Vancouver had Cloutier and an emerging Schneider, would you trade for 10 years of Luongo? Especially at anything close to the asking price? You seem to be trying to dump Luongo already while having an emerging Schneider.

Florida has Markstrom, widely considered one of the best, if not the best goalie prospect in the world. Sure, he's a few years younger than Schneider, but he could likely be ready for the 2014 season, maybe 2015. Florida is going to risk Luongo and his contract, and pay all that money despite being a poor team, just for the benefit of the first 1-2 years of a 10 year contract? When they already have Theo who can fill that role short term well enough to squeek them into the playoffs.

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07-04-2012, 08:03 AM
  #113
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To recap, in late April, it was widely reported that Lou had asked for a trade and was willing o waive his NTC, if requested. This set off a HF Board frenzy with speculation centering on Lou being traded first and foremost to Tampa as well as five or six other teams, including Toronto, but not Florida. The speculation mostly focused on a pre-draft trade, which would include draft choice(s) and one or more top prospect(s). However, no trade materialized on or before the draft and Tampa filled its goalie need elsewhere. In the interim, Toronto acquired JVR using its major available trade piece. Florida then moved to the forefront when it was reported that Lou was now only willing to waive his NTC in favor of Florida, which was already solid in goal. Tallon confirmed that Florida had an interest, but was not interested in trading any of its top prospects as demanded by Gillis. On July 1, right before the noon start of free agency, Florida resigned Clemmenson to a 2 year contract and later stated that he would compete with Theodore for the starting job. Tallon, however, left the door open to a deal for Lou presumably on his terms.

After 3 months of trade speculation, Lou remains with the Nucks and now seems likely to stay there indefinitely unless traded to Florida, or waived. The end.

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07-04-2012, 08:07 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Theo is better than Cloutier.

And if Vancouver had Cloutier and an emerging Schneider, would you trade for 10 years of Luongo? Especially at anything close to the asking price? You seem to be trying to dump Luongo already while having an emerging Schneider.

Florida has Markstrom, widely considered one of the best, if not the best goalie prospect in the world. Sure, he's a few years younger than Schneider, but he could likely be ready for the 2014 season, maybe 2015. Florida is going to risk Luongo and his contract, and pay all that money despite being a poor team, just for the benefit of the first 1-2 years of a 10 year contract? When they already have Theo who can fill that role short term well enough to squeek them into the playoffs.
I'm with you on this one 100%. They have Markstrom in AHL, who was pretty much amazing when he filled in during for a few games last year. Now, I know there's a big difference between filling in for a few games and being a starter, but to take on Luongo's albatross of a contract, when they can keep Theodore who is also a veteran goalie, has won the Hart and is by no means a bad goalie. If you want a mentor for your young hot goalie prospect, I'd think Theodore would be as good, maybe even better, as Luongo.

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07-04-2012, 08:14 AM
  #115
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well said. theo and clemmer are fine. markstom is the future. we need offense. no way we need luongo and that contract. sends a terrible message to markstom. i don't want luongo back in fl. does not fit our blueprint!!!!!!!!!!

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07-04-2012, 08:35 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
To recap, in late April, it was widely reported that Lou had asked for a trade and was willing o waive his NTC, if requested. This set off a HF Board frenzy with speculation centering on Lou being traded first and foremost to Tampa as well as five or six other teams, including Toronto, but not Florida. The speculation mostly focused on a pre-draft trade, which would include draft choice(s) and one or more top prospect(s). However, no trade materialized on or before the draft and Tampa filled its goalie need elsewhere. In the interim, Toronto acquired JVR using its major available trade piece. Florida then moved to the forefront when it was reported that Lou was now only willing to waive his NTC in favor of Florida, which was already solid in goal. Tallon confirmed that Florida had an interest, but was not interested in trading any of its top prospects as demanded by Gillis. On July 1, right before the noon start of free agency, Florida resigned Clemmenson to a 2 year contract and later stated that he would compete with Theodore for the starting job. Tallon, however, left the door open to a deal for Lou presumably on his terms.

After 3 months of trade speculation, Lou remains with the Nucks and now seems likely to stay there indefinitely unless traded to Florida, or waived. The end.
I doubt Florida is the only team that Luongo could possibly be traded too, ad Gillis on Team 1040 said he had calls from several teams, but as of yet he has yet to hear an offer he likes- and because of that he hasn't bothered to ask Luongo to waive, because there isn't anything close to a deal in place. Gillis is playing the waiting game, and whether it works or not, only time will tell.

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07-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I doubt Florida is the only team that Luongo could possibly be traded too, ad Gillis on Team 1040 said he had calls from several teams, but as of yet he has yet to hear an offer he likes- and because of that he hasn't bothered to ask Luongo to waive, because there isn't anything close to a deal in place. Gillis is playing the waiting game, and whether it works or not, only time will tell.
The unknown factor is Lou's reported unwillingness to waive his NTC except for Florida. If inaccurate, Toronto would seem the most likely destination.

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07-04-2012, 08:49 AM
  #118
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The Oilers.
BS . the Oilers will not go near that contract , only way i would think about it if one of your young big C are coming with him . Even then it not going to much of a return

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07-04-2012, 09:07 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
I don't know if this has been said (...thats a lot of checking.), but if I was Detroit I would be all over Luongo - The I would send Jimmy Howard to the Maple Leafs to replenish some of the assets I lost to Vancouver - Go with a Luongo/Gustavsson pairing for a year or two til McCollum is ready to replace Jonas. Detroit has the cap space, and Luongo is much more experienced & consistent than Howard IMO (especially without Lids in front of him - could get them back to the finals before the Zet/Dat/Mule/Bert window closes and Detroit needs a reboot.
The Wings have proven they only need an average goalie to win though. They may be a great fit for Luongo, depending on cost, but Im sure they would rather have a steller defense based around Kronwall and Suter then having Luongo in net. Just my 2 cents.

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Old
07-04-2012, 09:15 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
I don't know if this has been said (...thats a lot of checking.), but if I was Detroit I would be all over Luongo - The I would send Jimmy Howard to the Maple Leafs to replenish some of the assets I lost to Vancouver - Go with a Luongo/Gustavsson pairing for a year or two til McCollum is ready to replace Jonas. Detroit has the cap space, and Luongo is much more experienced & consistent than Howard IMO (especially without Lids in front of him - could get them back to the finals before the Zet/Dat/Mule/Bert window closes and Detroit needs a reboot.
McCollum will be lucky if he's ever a starter in the AHL. He will likely never be an NHL back up.

Petr Mrazek is the Detroit goalie to keep an eye on.

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07-04-2012, 09:25 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Every time I see a quantity for franchise player deal I get worried.

Luongo was traded for
Auld - promising goalie ---> career backup
Bertuzzi - 1st line powerforward --> severe regression to a 2/3rd liner
Allen - top 4 d-man with potential --> #4/5 on a contender

Phaneuf was traded for
Stajan - 55 point #2C --> overpaid #4C
Hagman - 2nd line W --> 4th liner
White - #3/4 d-man --> #4 d-man

Anytime a star player is traded for 2nd tier assets from a lesser hockey club the lesser assets usually regress.

I think it's because the lesser players (tweeners like Kulemin/MacArthur or "#1 goalies" like Auld) enjoy top 6 time and opportunities on a bad team. When they're relegated to a lesser role their production dips.

If I was Gillis I hold out til I can get 1 good player back.
as an Oiler fan, it pains me to see such an intelligent post from a Canuck fan.

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07-04-2012, 09:31 AM
  #122
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I'd say a good 5000 out of the nearly 20,000 posts in the 19 Luongo threads are people applauding the thread titles
. They are ****ing great tbh. Awesome titles .

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07-04-2012, 09:35 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by CodeBlue View Post
EDIT:

Star Wars
Episode I: The Phantom Gillis
Episode II: Attack of the Proposals
Episode III: Revenge of the Gillis
Episode IV: A New Luope
Episode V: The Vanempire Strikes Back
Episode VI: Return of the Deadline

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07-04-2012, 09:37 AM
  #124
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The only reason I'm in here is to show respect to the awesome guys who thought about these titles and then read about other title suggestions. That's some funny ****.

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07-04-2012, 09:48 AM
  #125
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some suggestions probably suck but hey **** it. I'm going for it!


Some James Bond reference

Luongo another day
Quantum of Luongo
Luongo never dies
The Lou who loved me
License to steal (due to his low value according to alot)



Some Star Wars reference

A new Lou

Return of the Lou

Attack of the Lou's





Harry Potter reference


Luongo and Gillis kidney stone


Gillis and the secrets of Luongo's jockstrap

Luongo the prisoner of Vancouver

Luongo the half-italian prince



That's it for now. Sorry if the list sucked did it in like 3 mins .

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