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Old
07-04-2012, 12:55 AM
  #51
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by LolungoReboundo View Post
He's not being compared to them he was behind them.... lol
He definately is being compared to them. That is their fanbase's best frame of reference, so that's what they are going to use as a comparison. It only makes sense to do that, so it's not a criticism of them. They just look at Wilson and see that he's not on the same level as their group of centers.

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07-04-2012, 05:56 AM
  #52
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Interesting comments in the Sun yesterday (Lance Hornby).

Quote:
Franson waits out Leafs

Restricted free agent Cody Franson told TSN.ca

this week he was not going to rush into a new pact with the Leafs, based on the way his first season in Toronto unfolded.

The ex-Nashville Predator was an opening night scratch under Ron Wilson and sat 25 games during the year. He was no more assured of steady work under Randy Carlyle with talk now of Korbinian Holzer and perhaps another rookie moving up to the blueline in 2012-13. The Leafs qualified Franson before July 1, but he will likely see what some other defencemen get in new contracts before signing.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/03...oalie-a-keeper

I really think Franson is gone this summer.

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07-04-2012, 05:59 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Interesting comments in the Sun yesterday (Lance Hornby).



http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/03...oalie-a-keeper

I really think Franson is gone this summer.
That's fine. I never thought we acquired him to be a big part of our team. He always seemed like an asset to be flipped.

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07-04-2012, 06:41 AM
  #54
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We're gonna wait all this time just to find out Suter goes to Detroit and Parise to Pittsburgh. Or both to Detroit.

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07-04-2012, 07:24 AM
  #55
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We're gonna wait all this time just to find out Suter goes to Detroit and Parise to Pittsburgh. Or both to Detroit.
And then the deals will start. Every team has to wait and see where Parise and Suter land.

IMO Franson's a good 30-35pt 3rd or 4th D. We don't really need him, but we could definitely use him in a 4 or 5 role. Right now our D depth is:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Gunnarson
Liles
Franson
Komisarek
Holzer
Blacker


We're in a position to get a decent return for him and IMO it sounds like he's already pencilled into a larger deal that's imminent once the Parise/Suter saga finishes. I can still realistically at least one of Gunnarson and Franson gone, Komisarek waived or dumped for a cap-floor team in need of depth on their blue line, and one blue liner brought it with more sandpaper. I'm thinking someone like

Niklas Hjalmarsson (1987) Height 6.03 -- Weight 205 -- Shoots L
Douglas Murray (1980) Height 6.03 -- Weight 240 -- Shoots L
Johnny Oduya (1981) Height 6.00 -- Weight 200 -- Shoots L
Brooks Orpik (1980) Height 6.02 -- Weight 219 -- Shoots L
Anton Volchenkov (1982) Height 6.01 -- Weight 227

These or these types of D that provide a combination of size, sandpaper and physicality with experience and leadership.

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07-04-2012, 07:36 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
And then the deals will start. Every team has to wait and see where Parise and Suter land.

IMO Franson's a good 30-35pt 3rd or 4th D. We don't really need him, but we could definitely use him in a 4 or 5 role. Right now our D depth is:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Gunnarson
Liles
Franson
Komisarek
Holzer
Blacker


We're in a position to get a decent return for him and IMO it sounds like he's already pencilled into a larger deal that's imminent once the Parise/Suter saga finishes. I can still realistically at least one of Gunnarson and Franson gone, Komisarek waived or dumped for a cap-floor team in need of depth on their blue line, and one blue liner brought it with more sandpaper. I'm thinking someone like

Niklas Hjalmarsson (1987) Height 6.03 -- Weight 205 -- Shoots L
Douglas Murray (1980) Height 6.03 -- Weight 240 -- Shoots L
Johnny Oduya (1981) Height 6.00 -- Weight 200 -- Shoots L
Brooks Orpik (1980) Height 6.02 -- Weight 219 -- Shoots L
Anton Volchenkov (1982) Height 6.01 -- Weight 227

These or these types of D that provide a combination of size, sandpaper and physicality with experience and leadership.
I could see Murray or Hjalmarsson being on Burke's radar, but I don't think New Jersey is interested in moving Volchenkov or that Pittsburgh will move Orpik. Also, didn't Oduya just sign a big extension with Chicago?

I would love to see a trade with San Jose that would send us Douglas Murray and Joe Pavelski. I'm not sure what we'd need to give up to do that though. A trade like that would address our hole at center and would shore up the back end with more size and toughness.

This team desparately needs to get rid of Connolly and Lombardi. Neither of these guys have any future with this team and with such a weak group of free agents this year likely have more significant trade value than usual. Once Parise is gone their value could increase more as teams try and solidify and address certain positions in their lineups.

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07-04-2012, 07:51 AM
  #57
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Just checked the Sharks board... they are suggesting a Clarke MacArthur for Douglas Murray swap. Would you?

I'm not sure. I do some some positives though. A big defenceman, sort of replaces Schenn, adds some size and stability and allows us to not rush any young guy (i.e. if we have an injury to our top 6/7 then guys like Blacker are next in line). Murray has 1 more year at $2.5M left so you're not married to the guy. Could even try him with Phaneuf? (remember, Phaneuf played some of his best hockey as a Leaf with a similar guy in Keith Aulie).

Murray-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Kimisarek

Would make Gunnar have to flip sides though.


Just thinking out loud a little. I'd rather send them Lombardi

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07-04-2012, 07:57 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Just checked the Sharks board... they are suggesting a Clarke MacArthur for Douglas Murray swap. Would you?

I'm not sure. I do some some positives though. A big defenceman, sort of replaces Schenn, adds some size and stability and allows us to not rush any young guy (i.e. if we have an injury to our top 6/7 then guys like Blacker are next in line). Murray has 1 more year at $2.5M left so you're not married to the guy. Could even try him with Phaneuf? (remember, Phaneuf played some of his best hockey as a Leaf with a similar guy in Keith Aulie).

Murray-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Kimisarek

Would make Gunnar have to flip sides though.


Just thinking out loud a little. I'd rather send them Lombardi
DEFINITELY.

I think we're probably looking a bit beyond that though to Mac + Gunnar for Murray + Clowe. That had some traction over the last couple months. Murray will replace what we lose in Komi, Schenn and Gunnar - he's a tank capable of top-4 minutes.

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07-04-2012, 07:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Just checked the Sharks board... they are suggesting a Clarke MacArthur for Douglas Murray swap. Would you?

I'm not sure. I do some some positives though. A big defenceman, sort of replaces Schenn, adds some size and stability and allows us to not rush any young guy (i.e. if we have an injury to our top 6/7 then guys like Blacker are next in line). Murray has 1 more year at $2.5M left so you're not married to the guy. Could even try him with Phaneuf? (remember, Phaneuf played some of his best hockey as a Leaf with a similar guy in Keith Aulie).

Murray-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Kimisarek

Would make Gunnar have to flip sides though.


Just thinking out loud a little. I'd rather send them Lombardi
I like Murray and think Mac should be moved but Murray is a left handed shot and 32

I'd also worry about having he and Komisarek, Burke probably loves the idea but having two dmen that can't hardly skate or make a pass out of the zone will cost the Leafs

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07-04-2012, 08:03 AM
  #60
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Lol Colin Wilson played the wing in Nashville if I'm correct many Nashville fans have said he doesn't have the defensive wherewithal to play center in the NHL
Do all fans in Toronto have a high opinion of Kadri?

I don't see a 1st. line center being available. I think you have to grow or groom them, and we know that Wilson can play on a playoffs calibre team, and I'd be quite willing to give him a shot at center on the Leafs. Depending on the cost of course to acquire.

I don't think it matters, my interpretation is that it was JVR or C.Wilson, and in the end the Flyers upped the offer to JVR for Schenn, 1 for 1.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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07-04-2012, 08:04 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pspot View Post
I like Murray and think Mac should be moved but Murray is a left handed shot and 32

I'd also worry about having he and Komisarek, Burke probably loves the idea but having two dmen that can't hardly skate or make a pass out of the zone will cost the Leafs
It's too early for pessimism.

What does it matter if he's 32? Is that too old to be serviceable all of a sudden? We can't have our cake and eat it too - if you want a young and inexperienced team then you have to be open the perils that accompany it.

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07-04-2012, 08:05 AM
  #62
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Main board put together an interesting idea...Peter Mueller.

Guy has plenty of lingering injury issues, and his conditioning was apparently quite brutal last year...but he sounds like a real potential reclamation project. He's always had plenty of talent and was really on his way up before his concussion after being given an expanded role in Colorado.

If we did make a play for one of the bigger fish in the trade market this off-season and it wore down some of our depth at forward (ie. think trading for Luongo and having to give up Mac or Kulemin etc.) I wouldn't mind giving the Mueller a try. I don't expect much more than a 1-year, $1MM contract...which is really a very low risk proposition.

At worst you get a few games out of him at the beginning of the season until he's hurt or not performing (at which point you bring the kids in). At best, you get a guy with a new lease on life that has always had awesome upside.

Would be interested in some thoughts around here...

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Old
07-04-2012, 08:08 AM
  #63
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Do all fans in Toronto have a high opinion of Kadri?

I don't see a 1st. line center being available. I think you have to grow or groom them, and we know that Wilson can play on a playoffs calibre team, and I'd be quite willing to give him a shot at center on the Leafs. Depending on the cost of course to acquire.

I don't think it matters, my interpretation is that it was JVR or C.Wilson, and in the end the Flyers upped the offer to JVR for Schenn, 1 for 1.
I think Kadri is intriguing because of his talent but I also am not very high on him. I kind of get a Coliacovo vibe from him. Talented but mentally not focused enough to take that next step. If he can be a key piece to acquire a #1 C i'd have no issue including him.

At this point assuming Lupul, Kessel, Grabo, Kulemin aren't going anywhere his shot at making this team is as the #1 C or moved to get one. maybe JVR somehow is able to play C and Kadri can take that 2nd line LW but thats maybe even more unlikely.

Leafs also need size in the top 6 so another reason to move him

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07-04-2012, 08:11 AM
  #64
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Do all fans in Toronto have a high opinion of Kadri?

I don't see a 1st. line center being available. I think you have to grow or groom them, and we know that Wilson can play on a playoffs calibre team, and I'd be quite willing to give him a shot at center on the Leafs. Depending on the cost of course to acquire.

I don't think it matters, my interpretation is that it was JVR or C.Wilson, and in the end the Flyers upped the offer to JVR for Schenn, 1 for 1.
From my understanding C Wilson also played 4th line winger minutes. Gaustad, Fisher, Spaling and Legwand were their 4 primary Centers. Wilson averaged 16 minutes a game and scored 35 pts.

NHL.com stats have him producing with very similar TOI stats players as Tyler Ennis, although Ennis played 20 games less, Maxine Talbot although Talbot played 20 games more, Dan Cleary (+10~ games), M Samuelsson (-10~ games), Peter Sykora....


who really knows. I think the book really is out on him, but he sure hasn't been used down the middle often.

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07-04-2012, 08:11 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
It's too early for pessimism.

What does it matter if he's 32? Is that too old to be serviceable all of a sudden? We can't have our cake and eat it too - if you want a young and inexperienced team then you have to be open the perils that accompany it.
its never to early to be a pessimist ...thats positive thinking

32 isn't old but for a big guy like that, the way he plays, i know i don't feel or recover the same way as i use to

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07-04-2012, 08:13 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Wilma View Post
Main board put together an interesting idea...Peter Mueller.

Guy has plenty of lingering injury issues, and his conditioning was apparently quite brutal last year...but he sounds like a real potential reclamation project. He's always had plenty of talent and was really on his way up before his concussion after being given an expanded role in Colorado.

If we did make a play for one of the bigger fish in the trade market this off-season and it wore down some of our depth at forward (ie. think trading for Luongo and having to give up Mac or Kulemin etc.) I wouldn't mind giving the Mueller a try. I don't expect much more than a 1-year, $1MM contract...which is really a very low risk proposition.

At worst you get a few games out of him at the beginning of the season until he's hurt or not performing (at which point you bring the kids in). At best, you get a guy with a new lease on life that has always had awesome upside.

Would be interested in some thoughts around here...
I think we all kicked this idea around a bit here. Problem is he's a 2nd line winger and we already have a glut of them. I'd love to see a team take a chance on him and I'd even love that to be us - huge upside and no risk involved. But we can't spare the roster space for him right now.

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07-04-2012, 08:17 AM
  #67
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I think we all kicked this idea around a bit here. Problem is he's a 2nd line winger and we already have a glut of them. I'd love to see a team take a chance on him and I'd even love that to be us - huge upside and no risk involved. But we can't spare the roster space for him right now.
That is true...but I still think there are some scenarios where it makes sense. I still hold that if the Luongo deal was to materialize we may need some additional depth at least until the kids are ready...Mueller should be top of mind for that.

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07-04-2012, 08:19 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Just checked the Sharks board... they are suggesting a Clarke MacArthur for Douglas Murray swap. Would you?

I'm not sure. I do some some positives though. A big defenceman, sort of replaces Schenn, adds some size and stability and allows us to not rush any young guy (i.e. if we have an injury to our top 6/7 then guys like Blacker are next in line). Murray has 1 more year at $2.5M left so you're not married to the guy. Could even try him with Phaneuf? (remember, Phaneuf played some of his best hockey as a Leaf with a similar guy in Keith Aulie).

Murray-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Kimisarek

Would make Gunnar have to flip sides though.


Just thinking out loud a little. I'd rather send them Lombardi
This year I think we may see Gardiner get some time with Phaneuf. With his mobility they could be very good together, though I think Gunnarsson will at least start the year with Phaneuf.

If we get Murray Our defence would be:

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Murray-Liles
Gardiner-Holzer
Komisarek

Murray will need to play with someone like Liles who can move the puck and get back quickly. Murray is very slow and needs a very mobile partner to be successful.

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07-04-2012, 08:20 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Just checked the Sharks board... they are suggesting a Clarke MacArthur for Douglas Murray swap. Would you?

I'm not sure. I do some some positives though. A big defenceman, sort of replaces Schenn, adds some size and stability and allows us to not rush any young guy (i.e. if we have an injury to our top 6/7 then guys like Blacker are next in line). Murray has 1 more year at $2.5M left so you're not married to the guy. Could even try him with Phaneuf? (remember, Phaneuf played some of his best hockey as a Leaf with a similar guy in Keith Aulie).

Murray-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gunnarsson
Liles-Franson/Holzer/Kimisarek

Would make Gunnar have to flip sides though.


Just thinking out loud a little. I'd rather send them Lombardi

I would do this deal as well. Players would have their heads on a swivel and thinking twice about what they do if they have to worry about both Phaneuf and Murray on the ice looking for the big hit on a unsuspecting player.

The acquisition of Murray would round out a solid and versatile D-corp for the Leafs.

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07-04-2012, 08:21 AM
  #70
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If Anaheim is even going to take us seriously for Bobby Ryan, Mikhail Grabovki is the startig point. You probably add in another good piece like Nikolai Kulemin or Clarke MacArthur.

I'd do that in a heartbeat!
Do you think the Leafs can outbid the Flyers for Ryan? How about the Sabres, another team apparently in the mix?

Ryan, although no winner, would add some size and hits along with his offense. The Ducks were almost as bad as the Leafs with Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry in the line up and Selanne scored another 26 goals.

It would be nice if the Leafs could land someone who knows how to win and brings that attitude with him.

Let's see if Burke can land his center, and if Anaheim is on the list of teams Grabovski has provided to the team. I'd guess most teams would be in the east, and he already knew how bad the Ducks were when he signed his contract so odds probably aren't great.

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07-04-2012, 08:26 AM
  #71
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We're gonna wait all this time just to find out Suter goes to Detroit and Parise to Pittsburgh. Or both to Detroit.
Then shortly after Bobby Ryan will go to the Flyers and Rick Nash will go to the Rangers.

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07-04-2012, 08:28 AM
  #72
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I've heard some very distant rumours, onesi wouldnt classify as credible. However hypothetically speaking could make sense.

Would T.O fans be ok with acquiring the following players.

Patrick Marleau from San Jose. Some feel he has warn out his welcome. They may be looking to part ways with their demoted captain. Once a center now a winger.

Patrick Marleau

for

Nazem Kadri
Mathew Lombardi
1st 2013

St.Louis is in need of a right handed defense man and Cody Franson is looking to leave Toronto. Jake Allen is emerging as a top end goalie prospect. Brian Elliot is a cap friendly, great back-up goalie. Halak has become injury prone and somewhat inconsistant at times. They may want his salary off the books.

To Toronto
Jaro Halak

To St.Louis
Cody Franson
Nikolai Kulemin
Carter Ashton


That trade leaves us with...

Lupul Marleau Kessel
JVR Grabovski MaCarthur
Connolly Mcclement Frattin
Brown Steckel D'amigo

Phaneuf Gunnarsson
Gardiner Liles
Holzer Blacker/Percy/Rielly

Halak
Reimer

Totally forgot Bozak was on the team. Insert him in one of the trades.. lol

Personally would love to have Halak. Getting him into the division against Montreal would be fantastic. He loves the big stage, plays great when the lights are on him. Obviously the team needs to adress size somewhere along the lines. potentially insert Biggs somewhere in that line-up...


Last edited by HockeyGuruPitka: 07-04-2012 at 08:39 AM.
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07-04-2012, 08:29 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I've heard some very distant rumours, onesi wouldnt classify as credible. However hypothetically speaking could make sense.

Would T.O fans be ok with acquiring the following players.

Patrick Marleau from San Jose. Some feel he has warn out his welcome. They may be looking to part ways with their demoted captain. Once a center now a winger.

Patrick Marleau

for

Nazem Kadri
Mathew Lombardi
1st 2013

St.Louis is in need of a right handed defense man and Cody Franson is looking to leave Toronto. Jake Allen is emerging as a top end goalie prospect. Brian Elliot is a cap friendly, great back-up goalie. Halak has become injury prone and somewhat inconsistant at times. They may want his salary off the books.

To Toronto
Jaro Halak

To St.Louis
Cody Franson
Nikolai Kulemin
Carter Ashton

The bolded is a major dealbreaker for me.

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07-04-2012, 08:31 AM
  #74
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From my understanding C Wilson also played 4th line winger minutes. Gaustad, Fisher, Spaling and Legwand were their 4 primary Centers. Wilson averaged 16 minutes a game and scored 35 pts.

NHL.com stats have him producing with very similar TOI stats players as Tyler Ennis, although Ennis played 20 games less, Maxine Talbot although Talbot played 20 games more, Dan Cleary (+10~ games), M Samuelsson (-10~ games), Peter Sykora....

who really knows. I think the book really is out on him, but he sure hasn't been used down the middle often.
Kadri is a year younger than C.Wilson, and Wilson has been in the NHL for 2 years, scored 16 last year, 15 this year.

So is the book on Kadri that he's a bust, since the book is out on Wilson?

Maybe I misinterpreted your comment, but it sounds like Wilson has topped out in your eyes, yet Kadri wasn't even good enough to make one of the worst teams in the league. Doesn't that make Kadri a bust?

I know it is easy to look at Leafs' draft picks and see the upside and to look at other players and only see the downside, but it doesn't work that way.

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07-04-2012, 08:33 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I've heard some very distant rumours, onesi wouldnt classify as credible. However hypothetically speaking could make sense.

Would T.O fans be ok with acquiring the following players.

Patrick Marleau from San Jose. Some feel he has warn out his welcome. They may be looking to part ways with their demoted captain. Once a center now a winger.

Patrick Marleau

for

Nazem Kadri
Mathew Lombardi
1st 2013

St.Louis is in need of a right handed defense man and Cody Franson is looking to leave Toronto. Jake Allen is emerging as a top end goalie prospect. Brian Elliot is a cap friendly, great back-up goalie. Halak has become injury prone and somewhat inconsistant at times. They may want his salary off the books.

To Toronto
Jaro Halak

To St.Louis
Cody Franson
Nikolai Kulemin
Carter Ashton
I don't like the Marleau deal due to his age. I feel that is the 'old' Leafs type of trade and I'm glad we try and stay away from them now.

The second deal seems like way too much going back to STL for us to be able to pull the trigger. I would remove Kulemin and add a non-1st rd pick or D prospect.

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