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MTL/DET - Markov

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Old
07-04-2012, 02:15 PM
  #26
Prairie Habs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clownquestionbro View Post
what do detroit fans want for pacioretty.
If Patches gets traded hopefully Montreal gets the return and not Detroit. But he won't be traded so it doesn't really matter.

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07-04-2012, 02:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
Nope.
I would settle for Xavier Ouellet + future consideration depending of Markov's production with the Wings.

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07-04-2012, 02:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
That's a pretty bold statement

If he plays 75 games I don't doubt he will be in the top scoring Dmen and do quite well defensively, but Norris contention?

As far as trading him goes, the Habs are in no position to do so since they will never get a proper return because of his recent injuries. We're stuck with him and I don't mind seeing him in a Habs uniform at all, especially if his knee truly is 100%.
Last time he played close to a full season (78 games) he had 64 points. Now that there is no Lidstrom, Pronger, or Neidermayer he would have a much better shot. There is no guarantee he would get back up to those numbers, but he has the ability to outscore Chara and Weber and play better D than Karlsson while staying close point wise. I never said he would win but I think he could definitely be in the top 5.

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07-04-2012, 02:21 PM
  #29
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Have to laugh at those saying that Markov is injury-prone. The guy barely missed any time until he was cut by Carey Price's skate. Then he had a knee injury which he re-injured because he likely came back too soon. That's two injuries in his career.

I would look into a deal with Detroit but in order to make it fair for Detroit and lower the risk, a conditional pick would have to be included in the deal, either way.

Perhaps Filppula (pending UFA) and a conditional 1st if Markov plays at least 65 games, or something like that.

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07-04-2012, 02:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Have to laugh at those saying that Markov is injury-prone. The guy barely missed any time until he was cut by Carey Price's skate. Then he had a knee injury which he re-injured because he likely came back too soon. That's two injuries in his career.

I would look into a deal with Detroit but in order to make it fair for Detroit and lower the risk, a conditional pick would have to be included in the deal, either way.

Perhaps Filppula (pending UFA) and a conditional 1st if Markov plays at least 65 games, or something like that.
I don't see him as an injury prone player, but no one's seen him play in a game since his knee blew up a second time, so he's far from a sure shot, very far.

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07-04-2012, 02:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Like Markov has any value right now. I'll give you a conditional 7th on the condition that he plays 75 games.
Campoli or Barker for you, then. Try them for a year and get back to me on what a Markov is worth.

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07-04-2012, 02:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
If Markov plays 75 games he will be in Norris contention.
And Markov will never be in Norris consideration. It's funny that Habs fans say things like "I think I could settle for prospect x" and then lay some garbage like "If he wasn't hurt x would happen".

The man has played 65 games out of a possible 246 in the last three seasons. He was a good defenseman. Until he proves otherwise, no matter how good he still may be he has zero value until he proves (playing in Montreal) that he can remain healthy.

Like I said, conditional 7th on the condition that he plays 75 games. That's an overpayment because that 7th could actually play hockey in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Campoli or Barker for you, then. Try them for a year and get back to me on what a Markov is worth.
What does that even mean? Campoli or Barker can actually skate and remain somewhat healthy. They are worth more then Markov right now.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Have to laugh at those saying that Markov is injury-prone. The guy barely missed any time until he was cut by Carey Price's skate. Then he had a knee injury which he re-injured because he likely came back too soon. That's two injuries in his career.

I would look into a deal with Detroit but in order to make it fair for Detroit and lower the risk, a conditional pick would have to be included in the deal, either way.

Perhaps Filppula (pending UFA) and a conditional 1st if Markov plays at least 65 games, or something like that.
You've embarrassed yourself. 65 of 246 in the last three seasons. Call it whatever makes you feel better.

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Old
07-04-2012, 02:59 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
It's funny that some hockey fans say things like "I think I could settle for prospect x" and then lay some garbage like "If he wasn't hurt x would happen".
Fixed that for you, generalization always has more impact, doesn't it?

Next time, please take the time to read the entire thread before you put evryone in the same boat.

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07-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
I don't see him as an injury prone player, but no one's seen him play in a game since his knee blew up a second time, so he's far from a sure shot, very far.
I didn't say he was a sure shot, far from there.

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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
You've embarrassed yourself. 65 of 246 in the last three seasons. Call it whatever makes you feel better.
I think that the embarrassment is on you buddy for not being able to make the difference between a guy who is injury-prone (see Salo) and a guy who has had a couple of serious injuries making him miss several games (see Markov and Cole).

But hey, whatever.

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07-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Like I said, conditional 7th on the condition that he plays 75 games. That's an overpayment because that 7th could actually play hockey in the future.
Basically, you're saying a healthy Markov is worth a 7th round draft pick. That's completely assinine...


Last edited by hototogisu: 07-04-2012 at 03:04 PM. Reason: that'll do
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Old
07-04-2012, 03:01 PM
  #36
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Wait, the guy who says Markov isn't worth a 7th rounder is calling out other people for embarassing themselves? Classic. I'll chalk it up to emotions running high after missing out on Suter and go back to what I said about people on this board not knowing the definition of "buy low".

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Old
07-04-2012, 03:04 PM
  #37
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No interest to trade Markov. He's actually healthy right now, I'd prefer to see what he can do instead of trading him when his value is so low. If MOntreal is out of the playoff picture and he remains healthy I'd consider moving him at the deadline, but really no need to move him.


Still, I love the hypocrisy and homerism from both sides in this thread. From "We'll give you a conditional 7th if he stays healthy", to "If he remains healthy he's Norris worthy". You guys be crazy.

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Old
07-04-2012, 03:06 PM
  #38
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It's a risky trade for both sides, because if Detroit give up assets for what he is really worth, and turns out to be injured, then they lost a ton of assets for a guy who can't play. On the other hand, if Habs give Markov up for a lower price because of his past issues and he turns out to stay healthy and performs like he can, then Habs lose.

This is a tough one, for sure.

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07-04-2012, 03:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
If Markov plays 75 games he will be in Norris contention.
Not likely. He isn't an ogre and he can play defense. You either have to be big, or have a great season offensively, or else you won't get close.

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07-04-2012, 03:15 PM
  #40
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This deal only happens if Holland is desperate to remain competitive while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still good and are willing to part with serious young assets, i.e somebody like Nyquist or Smith to get him.

Montreal is perfectly content to just wait and see what happens with Markov. They can see if his value is restored after a good season and look at trading then or look at keeping him for the rest of his career. If he's not back to normal, well they can live with that too rather than trade him for spare parts. Spare parts don't help Montreal right now. They have an organization with the draft skill and money to get their own spare parts for free.

Zero need to move him for minor assets. There's no upside in it for Montreal.

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07-04-2012, 03:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post

What does that even mean? Campoli or Barker can actually skate and remain somewhat healthy. They are worth more then Markov right now.
Then, just sign Campoli, he's UFA. He'll be pretty cheap. Enjoy.

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07-04-2012, 03:27 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
This deal only happens if Holland is desperate to remain competitive while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still good and are willing to part with serious young assets, i.e somebody like Nyquist or Smith to get him.

Montreal is perfectly content to just wait and see what happens with Markov. They can see if his value is restored after a good season and look at trading then or look at keeping him for the rest of his career. If he's not back to normal, well they can live with that too rather than trade him for spare parts. Spare parts don't help Montreal right now. They have an organization with the draft skill and money to get their own spare parts for free.

Zero need to move him for minor assets. There's no upside in it for Montreal.
No disrespect to Markov, but if Holland is giving up those kind of assets, he'll pursue someone younger and better. Perhaps Yandle or Weber might be available, depending on Nashville's plan since Suter is gone.

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07-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
No interest to trade Markov. He's actually healthy right now, I'd prefer to see what he can do instead of trading him when his value is so low. If MOntreal is out of the playoff picture and he remains healthy I'd consider moving him at the deadline, but really no need to move him.


Still, I love the hypocrisy and homerism from both sides in this thread. From "We'll give you a conditional 7th if he stays healthy", to "If he remains healthy he's Norris worthy". You guys be crazy.

Yup! It is definately somewhere in the middle. But on Det's end, they wouldn't offer up a huge package, and at MTL's end, we're short quality top 4 dmen even when he's healthy.

So sorry to anyone who wants him but the gamble of signing him was just that, gambling $$$ that he'll retyrn to a quality Dman. So here's hoping he does just that

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Old
07-04-2012, 03:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Habsfunk View Post
Basically, you're saying a healthy Markov is worth a 7th round draft pick. That's completely assinine...
Will he ever be healthy? I'm saying that someone who has played a total of 20 games in the past two seasons is worth a 7th rounder. The Wings do need a defenseman, but they need a reliable minute crunching defenseman. He is not worth trading for until the deadline when he proves he is healthy and even then his value will never be as high as some fans think it should be.

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07-04-2012, 03:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Will he ever be healthy? I'm saying that someone who has played a total of 20 games in the past two seasons is worth a 7th rounder. The Wings do need a defenseman, but they need a reliable minute crunching defenseman. He is not worth trading for until the deadline when he proves he is healthy and even then his value will never be as high as some fans think it should be.
So according to your superlogic, Sidney Crosby has roughly 60 games.


To Habs:

Sidney Crosby


To Pittsburgh:

Conditional 3rd.



Do it Shero/Bergy!

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07-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
So according to your superlogic, Sidney Crosby has roughly 60 games.


To Habs:

Sidney Crosby


To Pittsburgh:

Conditional 3rd.



Do it Shero/Bergy!
whoa! a 3rd for that expensive injury prone guy!? he's useless.




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Old
07-04-2012, 03:51 PM
  #47
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No disrespect to Markov, but if Holland is giving up those kind of assets, he'll pursue someone younger and better. Perhaps Yandle or Weber might be available, depending on Nashville's plan since Suter is gone.
I think a healthy Markov is better than Yandle but I digress.

Which is why this deal probably wouldn't happen. Its a nice starting idea but probably not worth it for either side. Montreal needs a major return to consider not just rolling the dice on Markov. MTL can wait a year and see if Markov lives up to his probable upside of being a top 20 defenseman right now.. Management will just blame the previous guy if they don't make the playoffs.

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07-04-2012, 03:57 PM
  #48
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Actually, the best way to describe Markov is Lidstrom with average skating (before injuries...) and that comes with it... And playoffs success.

Too risky for Detroit at this point, too low value for Montreal as well.

This said, if something is done, it will be by the trade deadline.

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07-04-2012, 04:03 PM
  #49
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Detroit doesn't have the assets. the only two players they have worth anything are both on the decline.

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07-04-2012, 04:03 PM
  #50
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My guess is given his recent streak of injuries he has more value to the Habs than he would get in a trade. Even if they kept him for half a season just to showcase what he has and then dealt him they'd probably be better off.
This. Until he proves that he's back to being the defenseman he was before the injuries, he's worth more to Montreal than what he would garner in a trade. Now, obviously, if some team is ready to risk giving good value for him, and get him at a somewhat lesser (I stress the somewhat) price than he would get if he proves that he's healthy, then it's another story. But it gets murky. So, again, this.

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