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Alex Semin - Plan B

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:45 PM
  #226
Thirty One
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Originally Posted by rangerfan_79 View Post
I know many fans aren't old enough to remember some of the on goings from such a long time ago and most TSN articles and video clips don't archive well on the net but it wasn't pretty.

here is one article that quoted TSN and was searchable.
http://proicehockey.about.com/cs/nhl...jagr_trade.htm

"But Jagr's reputation has taken a beating during his two-and-a-half seasons in Washington. He failed to transform the team into a contender and was often accused of being moody and unmotivated. "
Not only is that a very mild quote it is not from TSN. TSN isn't quoted in that article.

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Originally Posted by McDonagh View Post
This is definitely not true.
Lay off it already. We all know TSN does nothing put push their Canadian agenda. Remember when they made it seem that Justin Schultz preferred to sign with a Canadian team. That turned out to hogwash.

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Old
07-03-2012, 10:49 PM
  #227
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interesting

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Old
07-04-2012, 02:31 AM
  #228
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Didn't he sign a one year deal with the Caps?

3 years 15-18 million. Sign me up.

This team has playmakers, with a lack of finishers. Torts will whip him into shape.

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Old
07-04-2012, 07:38 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Leetch66 View Post
"There was a sense this season that Tortorella's message was no longer getting through to players in the locker room, however Feaster rejected the notion that the fiery coach lost the team.

"I don't think that it was a matter of losing the locker room. Sometimes the message, especially if communicated by the same person, is not received maybe the way it was years ago," the GM said, adding that there also were times this season when he and Tortorella didn't see eye-to-eye on things.
"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3424571

In that article it says that he lost the team...and he wanted to be let go although later he backed down on that . It says the team did not want to buy into his style or system anymore .

When I read stuff like that I do wonder when such a meltdown might happen here...guys do not like blocking a ton of shots year after year especially the more well payed fellows regardless of what you may want to believe . A few select will always do it...but certainly not everybody .


I don't want to have this sound like I am planting roses up Torts butt, but after the cup and the season that followed that team was being dismantled by ownership due to the tightening of the purse strings in a small market. The last three years of Torts saw his team struggle with 5-6 goaltenders who saved in the neighborhood of .890s, a defensive squad that played matador defense and replacement 2nd and 3rd liners who should have been 3rd and 4th liners. The scoring stayed the same but they gave up 70 more goals as the team was dismantled. As a coach you see the problem and you try to correct it given the players you have. Well the character on that team thought differently and decided it was beneath them to play a more defensive style to compensate for the loss of skill sets.

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07-04-2012, 10:41 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Wait so you're saying Torts doesnt encourage intelligent play? WHATTT. Playing good defensive hockey IS intelligent play. Limiting the mental lapses and weak coverage in your own end as well as not getting caught out of position or up the ice helps you win games. I highly, highly doubt Torts goes into practice telling these guys to block shots. Not everyone on the team block shots. Torts advocates an honest effort and a 'do whatever it takes' mentality. The PLAYERS have taken on that identity because they respect their coach not because they are scared of him. They choose to lay their body on the line. Callahan has done it since he came into the league under Renney. It is why he became a fan favorite and the captain of the team.

It's ignorant posts like yours that I try to ignore but its so hard. You act like Torts wants to coach this way. No he doesn't. In fact if you could pay attention and do a little reading you'd see that his comments from break-up day indicate he wants more scoring even if it means sacrificing a little bit of the way they play. Not a lot but a little bit. Torts was FORCED to implement that system because he knew we didn't have enough offensive talent to play a more run and gun type of offense. Adding Richards last offseason was just a stepping stone in the PROCESS of building a contender that doesnt just compete for one season but for years. He had to have a more defensive system because the majority of his players were more defensive minded or better on the defensive side of the puck. He played to the team's strengths to compete. Pittsburgh tried to play to their strength. So did Philly. Where did they end up? It's frustrating reading posts like yours that attack Tortorella. You guys have all the answers its amazing.

You spoke no truth. You just pasted BS all over your reply. Thank you captain obvious for letting us know we need scoring forwards. Torts already knew this. Again take a gander at his quotes from break-up day. Torts doesn't have the blinders on. You are too funny. "Change or buh bye." Save it. Guy was up for the Jack Adams award. What a terrible coach right? Has a stanley cup on his resume. A Stanley Cup when guys like Vinny L and Richards were very young in their careers. Sounds a lot like the rangers. Hmmm....maybe he knows what he's doing as opposed to some mindless fan who has never coached hockey at any level.

And btw the billy martin analogy is bs too. Torts didn't intentionally overwork his defensemen. He had no choice. Bickel wasn't able to keep up. Eminger was still trying to get back into a rhythm after recovering from an injury. I'd rather have a 50% McDonagh and Girardi over a 100% Bickel. They didn't have the depth. That's not Torts' fault.

People on this board need to really think before they "share" their opinion.
Quote:
Wait so you're saying Torts doesnt encourage intelligent play? WHATTT.
Please stop misquoting me or taking things out of context. It necessitates I correct you and surely, we have better things to do with our time.

I acknowledged Torts IS intelligent, that HE knows hockey (this doesn't mean every theory he has is correct, every view foolproof, every word out of his mouth as if handed down from Above). His downfall is his arrogance, the sin of pride, the foolishness to think he knows better, presumably because he is the great John Tortarella.

He considers his system foolproof. I submit to you it is obviously not. Another occasion, when more time permits, we as hockey fans can debate that more specifically in good faith. But not too much of that here and now. If it is a superior system (which it is NOT, it is good but flawed) then you try to get the players to adapt into the system. But if you can't do that, you still maximize what you get out of the players, because they are the horses you ride. Other factors do weigh in, and yes, talent can be wasted, but even still, bottom line is closer to you go as far as your talent takes you.
(One year, the '69 Mets, a good team, got lucky. They beat the Orioles, and they deserved to win. My point is you go down each roster, you say Jim Palmer cancels out Tom Seaver, etc., but then you get a couple like Ed Glider/Wayne Garret vs. Brooks Robinson and Ron Swoboda v. Frank Robinson. '69 was not the year for percentages, but percentages say most years the better talented Orioles win.

We are vastly improved but we clearly are not balanced, let alone dominant like the Orioles, across the board.)

We're much, much better than a year + ago, but we are still way subpar on offense, bordering impotent on some nights. We need a better system, something that incorporates the best aspects of Torts system for defense when situationally appropriate, but which is better than what we've got now as to offense.

Please just speak the truth. Bend, buckle and break and acknowledge that EXCESSIVE shot blocking takes a huge physical toll and isolated, does not appear to be much, but at the very end of a grinding season, deep in the playoffs, in games which our lackluster/impotent offense is not getting it done -- IN PART BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM, thank you --- it is enough to be the difference between winning and losing.

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
...I highly, highly doubt Torts goes into practice telling these guys to block shots. Not everyone on the team block shots. Torts advocates an honest effort and a 'do whatever it takes' mentality. The PLAYERS have taken on that identity because they respect their coach not because they are scared of him. They choose to lay their body on the line. Callahan has done it since he came into the league under Renney. It is why he became a fan favorite and the captain of the team. ....
Quote:
I highly, highly doubt Torts goes into practice telling these guys to block shots.
I disagree. Almost without exception, EVERYBODY understands they'd better.

Quote:
Not everyone on the team block shots.
Off games for Marty Biron doesn't count.
Clearly not every body is a human puck vacuum a la Girardi, but I think your sentence is a false statement in that most if not nearly all do when called upon.

Quote:
Torts advocates an honest effort and a 'do whatever it takes' mentality.
I have no problem with everybody putting forth an honest effort and earning their paycheck. I have been critical of Torts for how the effort is translated and deployed, which is part of strategy, but not whether or not gets effort.

I would rather have smarter situational opportunity in lieu of do what it takes, and I'll illustrate in a moment below...

Quote:
The PLAYERS have taken on that identity because they respect their coach not because they are scared of him. They choose to lay their body on the line.
No, and scared is secondary or less in the picture. Choosing to layout your body is the price they pay for their NHL job here.

But if you layout your body too much, come end of the year you are too beat up/exhausted to perform optimally.

This is what we witnessed this year, admit it.

Quote:
Callahan has done it since he came into the league under Renney. It is why he became a fan favorite and the captain of the team. ....
I appreciate all Cally's efforts. I hope they will not deprive us of a shortened career for him.

Let me make an analogy. The Yankees sign Dave Winfield. The overrated George Steinbrenner decides to bother his star outfielder.

So Winfield runs everything out. Ferociously.
Sometimes this pays off, turning a single into a double and a double into a triple. Occasionally it results in getting on with a forced error.

But in the real world things are not always in such a vacuum. Winfield and his slugging were lost when Dave got popped hamstrings or other types of ailments that impeded his productivity (not to mention what that cost in OF play). After a year or so, Steinbrenner wisened up, shut his mouth, and this no longer was part of the equation. Better results were had for Winfield, who was situationally selective about risking injury on such low percentage plays.

I trust Callahan. If he blocks 3 more, or 3 less, shots any given night, I'm not gonna complain.
What I want is a better team and a better balanced team that will not making Callahan feel that he must mindlessly sacrifice his body on each and every such occasion, thus lengthening his career and production.

If we could be a better balanced team with more scoring, that would make this so.

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07-04-2012, 11:24 AM
  #232
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[QUOTE=RGY;52000345]....
Quote:
It's ignorant posts like yours that I try to ignore but its so hard. ...
That is ignorant as to the standards of your opinion, which is not a statement of fact.
Try harder.

Quote:
You act like Torts wants to coach this way. No he doesn't. In fact if you could pay attention and do a little reading you'd see that his comments from break-up day indicate he wants more scoring even if it means sacrificing a little bit of the way they play. Not a lot but a little bit. Torts was FORCED to implement that system because he knew we didn't have enough offensive talent to play a more run and gun type of offense. Adding Richards last offseason was just a stepping stone in the PROCESS of building a contender that doesnt just compete for one season but for years. He had to have a more defensive system because the majority of his players were more defensive minded or better on the defensive side of the puck. He played to the team's strengths to compete.
I appreciate your insight. I respectfully disagree as to most of it.
For the record, I am not advocating 'run and gun' offense, I am advocating balance.

It's nice that now that the flaws of his system are exposed for all the world to see, which I remind you I pointed out going back to that Edmonton game which I called early in the year, for which I took a verbal pounding even though I was proven right, NOW he is willing to add offense.
He should have attempted more balance from square 1, IMO.
Yes, it's a process. As a general acknowledgment that team development is like a motion video and not a photograph, I agree.

But he should have implemented a better, more balanced system since day 1.


Quote:
Pittsburgh tried to play to their strength. So did Philly. Where did they end up?
They lost, and deserved to, because they are not balanced. We do not aspire to copy them, we aspire to be better than them, be like the Yankees of most years, if we imitate anyone, be it the Canadians of old.

One note though. Philly is not chopped liver but they can be handled.
Pittsburgh has enough uber elite talent that they can never be discounted as long as they have Malkin. And Fleury is very inconsistent, but he is also talented. Somewhere on HFB I remember reading someone gushing over certain tests taken. His reflexes, if not phenomenal, are clearly superior. Fortunately for the rest of the NHL, he doesn't always display the skill to control that talent. But when he does, that plus their firepower makes them extremely formidable.

It would be nice if we improved the horses by adding more skill, a sniper. But that is only 1 part of it.

Our system must change IN PART to allow both any sniper we add or have to the increase the scoring from the regular guys as well. We do that, we have a terrific chance of winning, we don't, and more or less we have a repeat of last year, give or take. We might get lucky with that, but we shouldn't and mustn't settle for that.

I say IN PART because again, some of what Torts says is useful. We don't want to throw out the proverbial baby with the proverbial bathwater.


It's frustrating reading posts like yours that attack Tortorella. You guys have all the answers its amazing.

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:43 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
...
You spoke no truth.
Yes I did.

Quote:
You just pasted BS all over your reply. Thank you captain obvious for letting us know we need scoring forwards. Torts already knew this. Again take a gander at his quotes from break-up day. Torts doesn't have the blinders on. You are too funny. "Change or buh bye." Save it.
Again, coulda shoulda done more since day 1, not just 1 dimensional as he clearly was.

Quote:
Guy was up for the Jack Adams award. What a terrible coach right? Has a stanley cup on his resume. A Stanley Cup when guys like Vinny L and Richards were very young in their careers. Sounds a lot like the rangers. Hmmm....maybe he knows what he's doing as opposed to some mindless fan who has never coached hockey at any level.
Bottom line is this team must change for the better by ADDING in the opposite area of offense, and not just only focusing on D excessively. Awards he wins or doesn't will not change this fundamental FACT.

Quote:
And btw the billy martin analogy is bs too.
No was it was entirely apt.

Quote:
Torts didn't intentionally overwork his defensemen. He had no choice. Bickel wasn't able to keep up. Eminger was still trying to get back into a rhythm after recovering from an injury. I'd rather have a 50% McDonagh and Girardi over a 100% Bickel. They didn't have the depth. That's not Torts' fault.
It's true we didn't have as many guys playing up to the level of our top guys. However, I think more minutes could have been redeployed to other D, especially once we were ahead in games, and that would have made a small but certain benefit to our D, particularly our top D, in keeping them fresher. That is Tort's fault, but it is comparatively small, as it focuses more on time of play and not on the methodology of play.

There is a time and place for shotblocking, diving for the puck, etc.; but go to that well too often, and you see what I'm saying. This year's playoffs again prove my point.

However, my complaint is not limited to our D in isolation. More so it is as to our offense.
Everyone, particularly the Fs we needed to step up and score who were flying on vapor at the end, having been overworked excessively on D throughout the year, clearly had nothing left in the tank
Quote:
People on this board need to really think before they "share" their opinion.
I agree with you as to: thinking and sharing >>> stupidity and selfishness/isolationism.

Happy 4th, RGY, and everyone else


Last edited by bernmeister: 07-04-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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Old
07-04-2012, 12:00 PM
  #234
Tony D63
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3 years 15m

Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Semin-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Ansimov-Dubinsky
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham/Haley

Wow thats such a improvement. I'm all for signing Semin now, but depending on the price.

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07-04-2012, 12:17 PM
  #235
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sign Semin, keep the current roster that went to ECF, with all our young guns!!

Haglin-Richards-Gaborik

Kreider-Stepan- Semin

Dubi- Anisimov- Callahan

Pyatt- Boyle - Asham

Rupp, Haley

thats a balanced and depth line up that will put our 3rd line in sick positions to get the job done..

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07-04-2012, 12:47 PM
  #236
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.

I want this guy.

Warts and all. Keep the core intact and add a Nash type scoring talent.

win win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlCMz...eature=related

three years at 20 million.

Fair deal.


Last edited by pld459666: 07-04-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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07-04-2012, 01:33 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I want this guy.

Warts and all. Keep the core intact and add a Nash type scoring talent.

win win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlCMz...eature=related

three years at 20 million.

Fair deal.
3 years and 15M i'd say

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07-04-2012, 01:41 PM
  #238
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Unless someone blows him away with an offer I foresee him signing with Detroit or New Jersey to play with Datsyuk or Kovalchuk, respectively.

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07-04-2012, 03:47 PM
  #239
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Can someone tell me which wing he plays on? His wiki says left wing, while TSN has him on the right; does he play both? Thanks...

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07-04-2012, 03:56 PM
  #240
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Can someone tell me which wing he plays on? His wiki says left wing, while TSN has him on the right; does he play both? Thanks...
found this article...says that before boudreau he played mostly LW and then BB switched him to the right

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...dkzK_blog.html

article suggests the reason BB moved him to rw is so when ovechkin overstays his shifts it doesn't delay semin from jumping on LOL

so looks like he can play both wings

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07-04-2012, 03:58 PM
  #241
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Can someone tell me which wing he plays on? His wiki says left wing, while TSN has him on the right; does he play both? Thanks...
Not sure, same intel... suspect both. There's a video somewhere and I believe he is right handed shot.

I'm guessing we can pencil him in at LW, assuming no other major additions.

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07-04-2012, 04:01 PM
  #242
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found this article...says that before boudreau he played mostly LW and then BB switched him to the right

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...dkzK_blog.html

article suggests the reason BB moved him to rw is so when ovechkin overstays his shifts it doesn't delay semin from jumping on LOL

so looks like he can play both wings
ˇMuchas gracias!

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07-04-2012, 04:08 PM
  #243
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With his shooting ability is want him to play LW.

That right handed shot CAN be deadly. Especially the one-timer on the pp.

We are not getting him with a one million per year discount. 3 years for 15 is not getting it done.

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07-04-2012, 04:11 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Yes I did.


Again, coulda shoulda done more since day 1, not just 1 dimensional as he clearly was.


Bottom line is this team must change for the better by ADDING in the opposite area of offense, and not just only focusing on D excessively. Awards he wins or doesn't will not change this fundamental FACT.


No was it was entirely apt.


It's true we didn't have as many guys playing up to the level of our top guys. However, I think more minutes could have been redeployed to other D, especially once we were ahead in games, and that would have made a small but certain benefit to our D, particularly our top D, in keeping them fresher. That is Tort's fault, but it is comparatively small, as it focuses more on time of play and not on the methodology of play.

There is a time and place for shotblocking, diving for the puck, etc.; but go to that well too often, and you see what I'm saying. This year's playoffs again prove my point.

However, my complaint is not limited to our D in isolation. More so it is as to our offense.
Everyone, particularly the Fs we needed to step up and score who were flying on vapor at the end, having been overworked excessively on D throughout the year, clearly had nothing left in the tank

I agree with you as to: thinking and sharing >>> stupidity and selfishness/isolationism.

Happy 4th, RGY, and everyone else
The problem with you bern is you worry too much. You dont show any faith in torts, sather, gorton, clarke, etc. You become so trigger happy, you want so many changes. The Rangers have been going in the right direction for the last three years drafting and developing. Relax, sit back and give sather some time.

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07-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #245
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3 years...and whatever it takes in funding to get it done 18-20 Million possibly . I suspect he will use the KHL as leverage to get the best deal going...crazy if he did not do so IMO . Goal scorers do not fall out of trees...and it is only money and not assets . If cap becomes a problem then we can always dump a contract when needed .

We need Semin to get us to another Conference Final as this season Boston will be back in gear and as usual all the other teams play hard against the NYR who are the most hated team in the league because of being a reckless spending big city team in the past .

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07-04-2012, 08:35 PM
  #246
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We'll kill the East if he we sign Semin as our top LW. Especially since Suter and Parise are off to Minnesota and not in our conference. Contrary to popular belief, he can actually play. He was one of the more dangerous players on the ice when he played us in the playoffs. He played a nice two-way game as well.

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07-05-2012, 02:28 PM
  #247
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IF the rangers sign Semin, does that mean a center is traded to make cap space? What would a guy like Brian Boyle cost? Draft pick?

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07-05-2012, 02:35 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Lifetimebluesfan View Post
IF the rangers sign Semin, does that mean a center is traded to make cap space? What would a guy like Brian Boyle cost? Draft pick?
Y? Rangers have like 15+ mil in cap space last time i checked.

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:29 PM
  #249
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i like the idea of signing semin for many reasons. one, it costs only money. he's exactly what the rangers need, in theory. he may not have the best attitude, but if any team can improve an attitude, it's the rangers. but i really like it, cuz it ices the blue jackets gm. get doan and semin. good job.

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07-05-2012, 03:33 PM
  #250
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I'd offer 3/18, but would prefer two years. I'd be willing to give him more money for a shorter term, though.

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