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Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: The Nick Rash edition (Fedotenko signs w/ Philly)

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07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
  #101
broadwayblue
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Game breaker stats? What are those? He can score timely goals in a dominant fashion. Not going to try fluff him up because that's not my agenda, his stats don't tell the whole story when evaluating his skill level. It's a risk sure, but if the cost is right I think it's worth taking. He also would have been 3rd on this team in scoring this year, first last year, 2nd the year before that and 1st four years ago.
I'm just saying that 67 points doesn't place him as a top 25 scorer in the league. But he's paid a top 5 salary. That's a negative value. I just wonder if the money would be better spent elsewhere...and that's not even considering what it will cost in assets to get him.

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07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
  #102
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Yes, I messed up. But that doesn't change the fact that he had 13 more points last season than Callahan. Do you really think spending 7.8M/year is a wise investment for a 67 point player?
Going by point production really can't be a factor here. I see what you're saying, but if you watch Nash play (i'm not saying that you haven't) you would see a big guy with a boat load of skill who can change games. He's a guy we need and a player who would do well here, but the contract and assets are the troubling thing.

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07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
  #103
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Not exactly the same. 2 years and a pretty serious knee injury later.
Vinny with us in Gabby's 40 goal season-

75 GP 20 G 38 A

Vinny last year-

82 GP 16 G 39 A

Vinny was not much worse- it doesn't account for a 20+ point difference.

Nash is good, no doubt. I'm not trying to belittle him. But 7.8 mil AND assets heading back to CBJ good? I'm not sure.

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07-04-2012, 07:19 PM
  #104
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Hehe, Brian Johnson sang that song. Bon Scott was already dead.
Apologies on the lead singer front, but you're still left with the screeching "for those about to rock." By goal 9, everyone is thinking to themselves "**** this ****!"

Also, I would like Nash only for the fact that he is an immovable body with the puck, which this team hasn't had since Jagr.

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07-04-2012, 07:20 PM
  #105
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Vinny with us in Gabby's 40 goal season-

75 GP 20 G 38 A

Vinny last year-

82 GP 16 G 39 A

Vinny was not much worse- it doesn't account for a 20+ point difference.
Nash carried him

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07-04-2012, 07:20 PM
  #106
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I thought it was funny as hell lol
So did I

I think the mods thought otherwise though. Hey, whatcha gonna do...

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07-04-2012, 07:20 PM
  #107
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Interesting to note, Zach Parise and Rick Nash have identical PPG numbers over their careers thus far, .81 and both make around 7.5m.

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07-04-2012, 07:22 PM
  #108
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How could you NOT be motivated to score goals if you were constantly rewarded with AC/DC?

I would make it my life's mission to light it the **** up.

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07-04-2012, 07:22 PM
  #109
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Going by point production really can't be a factor here. I see what you're saying, but if you watch Nash play (i'm not saying that you haven't) you would see a big guy with a boat load of skill who can change games. He's a guy we need and a player who would do well here, but the contract and assets are the troubling thing.
Don't get me wrong...I think he's a very talented player. He can score from a lot of places and is certainly dangerous when he's on the ice. Again though, it comes down to value...should we be trading for a guy who is one of the top 5 paid players in the league when he doesn't finish among the top 25 in scoring? And then there's the issue of asset management.

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07-04-2012, 07:23 PM
  #110
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Seriously, if I had a nickle for every time I heard this over the years.
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Gaborik is a better player. Richards is a better overall player too

e: Nash's flashes here and there aren't enough to make up for the fact he's just as not as good as them. And Gaborik can most certainly take over a game on his own
After 8000 posts I doubt there is anything I can say to convince you. But I stand by it and hope that it gets done and we can find out when they all play together.

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07-04-2012, 07:23 PM
  #111
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They should really put a limit with regards to how many years a player can sign for: 8-10 years would be good.

Although, it's funny to hear Devil fans cry cap circumvention, or as one Devil fan put it, cap circumcision.

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07-04-2012, 07:24 PM
  #112
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Interesting to note, Zach Parise and Rick Nash have identical PPG numbers over their careers thus far, .81 and both make around 7.5m.
To be fair, Zach is a more complete player. Your getting more bang for your buck with Zach. Both are overpaid though.

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07-04-2012, 07:26 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Billionaire Bot View Post
How could you NOT be motivated to score goals if you were constantly rewarded with AC/DC?

I would make it my life's mission to light it the **** up.
Highway to hell, dirty deeds, if you want blood, shake your foundations, there are better AC/DC songs than what the Blue Jackets selected.

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07-04-2012, 07:26 PM
  #114
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I'm just saying that 67 points doesn't place him as a top 25 scorer in the league. But he's paid a top 5 salary. That's a negative value. I just wonder if the money would be better spent elsewhere...and that's not even considering what it will cost in assets to get him.
67 pts this year was a 7 way tie for 26th in the league this year... I get that his production doesn't match his salary at this point. But Parise just had 69 points and got 7.5m so how far off is it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
To be fair, Zach is a more complete player. Your getting more bang for your buck with Zach. Both are overpaid though.
Sure but it seems people either want to discuss point totals or intangibles when gauging value. I wouldn't pay either of them that much, but it is what it is.

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07-04-2012, 07:26 PM
  #115
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James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
In 2004, Wings and Rangers spent $50-million more than Minnesota. Right now, the Wild's payroll is $13-million higher than Detroit and NYR.
I was flipping out this season because NBC Sports was playing a ton of crappy Minny games against crappy teams in prime time simply because they draw high ratings. I have a feeling it'll be worse this season

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07-04-2012, 07:27 PM
  #116
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Ok, and look what team he played on and who he played with...

We are making excuses for him and he's not even here yet, LOL.

Stop it OK?

The guy has the word "elite" next to his name in so many things I read that it's just a joke. I don't care if he's playing with the kids from those Disney movies. If he's so damn good then find a way. Elite players do that. Find a way to crack 80 points just once in your career Rick.

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07-04-2012, 07:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Highway to hell, dirty deeds, if you want blood, shake your foundations, there are better AC/DC songs than what the Blue Jackets selected.
But isn't it really more about them being able to go "FIRE!" and shoot off their little cannon?

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07-04-2012, 07:28 PM
  #118
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To be fair, Scoring 60 points on a team you don't want to be on after your GM threw you under the bus after you PRIVATELY were unhappy with mangament, is still pretty damn good...

Regardless, Gabby and Richards are still both much better than nash.

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07-04-2012, 07:29 PM
  #119
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Cheap replacements for Girardi and Staal? Are you out of your mind? Staal is already on an absolute steal of a contract, but that won't last long. Mac and DZ are good, but you're talking about replacing 2 top pairing, elite defensive defensemen.

Our players are mediocre? 1 point off of the presidents trophy and the ECF is mediocre apparently.

Rick Nash gets elite money that he doesn't earn. Sure, we could get him, but how much longer is he good for, how many players are we going to not be able to sign because of him, and what are we going to do when we do?

Nash is the type of player a the Rangers from a decade ago would get. I'm really hoping we learned that lesson.
You misread the tone of my post, which is my fault. It was confusing.

First off, I mean replacements for Staal/Girardi years down the road. When losing the core is really an issue we'll have some talent coming in like Miller, Erixon, McIlrath, etc.

I think our team is really good, but no one should be crushing us at free agency. We need elite help for a reason (we lack it), hence the notion that we'll lose our core in 2/3 years as being a bit extreme.

Basically, it won't be both ways.

Nash from a decade ago would be an appropriate example if we traded Stepan, Kreider, MDZ and our first. Nash for Dubi AA and Hagelin is more consistent with our recent history, and an absolute steal. The cap hit is big, but gets offset with Gaborik's departure. It gets offset the first half of next season with LTIR or a lockout. We'll fit MDZ and Stralman. We can add a big gun at the trade deadline at a portion of the cap hit.

That's 2 seasons of taking serious cup runs. Then cap relief from Gaborik.

I don't know what the trade will be for Nash, and I'm not "all in". It hinges on it being a steal. But I can't stand the doomsday scenarios being played out.

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Old
07-04-2012, 07:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Billionaire Bot View Post
But isn't it really more about them being able to go "FIRE!" and shoot off their little cannon?
"Aye, aye, oh"

*Canon shot*

"Shake your foundations...."


"If you want blood"

*Canon shot*

"You've got it...."

It's doable and actually fits better with other songs.

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07-04-2012, 07:32 PM
  #121
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67 pts this year was a 7 way tie for 26th in the league this year... I get that his production doesn't match his salary at this point. But Parise just had 69 points and got 7.5m so how far off is it?
You could argue that Zach is now overpaid as well...but at least MIN didn't have to give up anything to get him. Put another way, if Rick Nash was a UFA would we be happy to sign him for 6 years at 7.8M per? I think we would probably feel that we paid a bit too much, but such is unfortunately the case when you sign UFAs. However, when you add assets to the mix he becomes even that much more expensive. I know he would help us...but when you are a max cap team it's really important to get as much value out of each player. It's more next year and beyond that I worry about bringing in another 7M player. I know Gaborik only has 2 more years on his deal...but we still have 5 RFAs to sign next summer.

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07-04-2012, 07:33 PM
  #122
Killem Dafoe
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Don't get me wrong...I think he's a very talented player. He can score from a lot of places and is certainly dangerous when he's on the ice. Again though, it comes down to value...should we be trading for a guy who is one of the top 5 paid players in the league when he doesn't finish among the top 25 in scoring? And then there's the issue of asset management.
Hopefully there's a team out there who sees the package Sather's offering and says "hey you can have player X instead." And player X is just as good but cheaper. Like i said, there's a deal out there. I got faith in Slats and I never thought I would say that but I do.

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07-04-2012, 07:33 PM
  #123
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You could argue that Zach is now overpaid as well...but at least MIN didn't have to give up anything to get him. Put another way, if Rick Nash was a UFA would we be happy to sign him for 6 years at 7.8M per? I think we would probably feel that we paid a bit too much, but such is unfortunately the case when you sign UFAs. However, when you add assets to the mix he becomes even that much more expensive. I know he would help us...but when you are a max cap team it's really important to get as much value out of each player. It's really next year and beyond that I worry about bringing in another 7M player. I know Gaborik only has 2 more years on his deal...but we still have 5 RFAs to sign next summer.
Depends on the assets, I am clearly not suggesting gutting the team to get him. Sather obviously feels his salary isn't an issue considering he wanted him at the deadline, so I think that is a moot point.

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07-04-2012, 07:36 PM
  #124
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67 pts this year was a 7 way tie for 26th in the league this year... I get that his production doesn't match his salary at this point. But Parise just had 69 points and got 7.5m so how far off is it?




Sure but it seems people either want to discuss point totals or intangibles when gauging value. I wouldn't pay either of them that much, but it is what it is.
That's what is making Nash's salary more palatable. I'm not loving the contract, but it's less insane today. I think Dubinsky is overpaid by the same amount as Nash, about $1.5-2m (at least for last year's production and up and down seasons). If, IF we steal Nash in a trade, it's hard to turn away. The goal is to win the cup after all, not horde prospects.

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07-04-2012, 07:37 PM
  #125
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To be fair, Scoring 60 points on a team you don't want to be on after your GM threw you under the bus after you PRIVATELY were unhappy with mangament, is still pretty damn good...

Regardless, Gabby and Richards are still both much better than nash.
I don't disagree. He's a damn good player.

But he's not a game breaker and that's what he will be expected to be once he gets here. Nothing less. If his cap hit were not what it was, and if his GM were not asking for the moon and stars, I'd feel much better about acquiring him.

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