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Free Agent Sit and Think Things Through Thoroughly (Matt Carle signed with Tampa Bay)

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Old
07-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
When Carle came here 4 years ago, he had been dumped by two other teams and was considered overpaid. He was 23 at the time and the Flyers asked him to simplify his game and focus on defense. He got better as the year went on and quickly turned his career around. Luke Schenn has been dumped by Toronto. He is 22. Is it that much of a leap to think he to can turn around his career here this year?
I think that's what everyone hopes, but it's also unreasonable to expect that Schenn replaces what Carle brought. I believe Schenn is fully capable of replacing (and eventually surpassing) Carle defensively and brings a vastly different physical element. However, Schenn is certainly more limited offensively. He can't and won't replace that element of Carle's game.

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07-04-2012, 10:55 PM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
When Carle came here 4 years ago, he had been dumped by two other teams and was considered overpaid. He was 23 at the time and the Flyers asked him to simplify his game and focus on defense. He got better as the year went on and quickly turned his career around. Luke Schenn has been dumped by Toronto. He is 22. Is it that much of a leap to think he to can turn around his career here this year?
no. in fact, i think he will be really good for us

but he is a different kind of player

we are less mobile and dont move the puck as well without carle....but like i said, there is still time to add, and while i think carle is a solid player, its not like he is irreplaceable

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07-04-2012, 10:55 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
More than likely the "media" saying homer said that ? The Media LOVES starting that kind of nonsense, especially in Philly.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/icechips/?hubname=nhl-flyers

Wrong.

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07-04-2012, 10:56 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
More than likely the "media" saying homer said that ? The Media LOVES starting that kind of nonsense, especially in Philly.
Holmgren said it at his end of the season press conference.

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07-04-2012, 10:57 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
That list doesn't have term of contract remaining on it, which is a pretty essential element to the discussion. If Carle wanted to go 2 years for $11M, I think we all would have been thrilled. It's the 6 years at the higher then warranted rate that presents the problem, especially when you're working without knowing what the CBA is going to look at.
Under the 'length' column, there is no number smaller than 3 (which is really 2 more years, just not updated). Zidlicky (no), Pitkanen (gag), Markov (hurt), Kaberle (blows), Gonchar (old).

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07-04-2012, 10:59 PM
  #756
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Serious question: who's going to run the PP if/when Kimmo gets hurt? Mez? I like the idea of stocking up on defensive-minded dmen, but we're a bit thin at the puck-mover spot now...

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07-04-2012, 11:00 PM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
So offensively, the same. Not as good defensively, but more physical. So....this means its not even close?

They're comparable. I like more physical defensemen as I think guys like Timonen and Desjardins and Carle have their role along the boards, but are not good at clogging up the middle.

Agreed on the shooting. It looks like Carle has the same accuracy as Jeff Carter and the same strength as a bantam goalie. His one goal in the playoffs was an absolute fluke, because watching him all season his wrist shots hit nothing but shins and skates...if they didn't dribble and die before they got that far.
If that isn't the truth. Tampa just made the best move of the offseason, unfortunately for them, they made it for the Flyers. The Flyers will be much better with the current D without Carle as long as they don't sign a Matt Walker, Vandermeer, Modry instead of letting Gus or Bourdon get their shot. Even so, the defense itself (not the players) still needs to be fixed. They may have trouble at forward though, we lost a lot of size with Jagr and JVR gone and there's nobody left to sign to replace them.

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07-04-2012, 11:03 PM
  #758
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I would be fine if they did nothing more and upgrade the d at the deadline. That being said, I think there will be a trade. There is no way they are going into next season with that cap space. If they didn't have something bigger in mind, they probably would have just paid Carle.

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:15 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoowa View Post
Serious question: who's going to run the PP if/when Kimmo gets hurt? Mez? I like the idea of stocking up on defensive-minded dmen, but we're a bit thin at the puck-mover spot now...
Carle couldn't run a PP to save his life anyways, so it's not like this is a new issue.

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07-04-2012, 11:16 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
They're likely to keep 7 on the NHL roster. Bourdon has to go through waivers so he will likely be with the big club if he's not traded.
I'd probably keep 8, frankly.

Timonen
Coburn
Grossmann
Meszaros
L. Schenn
Bourdon
Gervais
Lilja


Although I think Holmgren might have something up his sleeve to get another top-4 guy somehow.

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07-04-2012, 11:18 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
Carle couldn't run a PP to save his life anyways, so it's not like this is a new issue.
Would like to see Gustafsson in this role.

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07-04-2012, 11:18 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Man Philly really gives our GM's ****. They sign somebody, he is over paid! They don't sign somebody, why didn't he over pay for him! He really might have the hardest job in the city right now. Every single move he makes must be perfect unless the fans disagree with it. Also Carle isn't worth what he got paid and for how long. That was a good job by homer not over paying for his services.
I'm happy Holmgren let him walk. Carle isn't a 5.5 million dollar Dman, and we already have an insane amount of cap space tied up in defense.

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07-04-2012, 11:20 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Man Philly really gives our GM's ****. They sign somebody, he is over paid! They don't sign somebody, why didn't he over pay for him! He really might have the hardest job in the city right now. Every single move he makes must be perfect unless the fans disagree with it. Also Carle isn't worth what he got paid and for how long. That was a good job by homer not over paying for his services.
No idea where you are getting this vibe.

Seems the consensus is that Homer has been great.

Negadelphian syndrome?

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:25 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I'm happy Holmgren let him walk. Carle isn't a 5.5 million dollar Dman, and we already have an insane amount of cap space tied up in defense.
Exactly how I feel about Carle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
No idea where you are getting this vibe.

Seems the consensus is that Homer has been great.

Negadelphian syndrome?
I just see some people saying it was bad to let him walk... for that money and term there should have been no delay in homer saying appreciate your time here, but good luck in Tampa.

Oh yea if there is any whispers about Shea Weber becoming available, outbid everyone and get him. Might be paying a ton for defense, but he would make this team 1000x better


Last edited by Prongo: 07-04-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old
07-04-2012, 11:27 PM
  #765
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I seriously feel with how the market is right now for UFA, we might actually go into the season with quite a bit of cap room. I know everyone wants to spend it, but on who? No ****ing way we give Semin what he wants for money, would rather go cheaper and try out Mueller. Hell the kid just turned 24.

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07-04-2012, 11:39 PM
  #766
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Don't think Rozsival will cost too much. Throw in Winnik and some other big bottom 6er.

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07-04-2012, 11:48 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
Don't think Rozsival will cost too much. Throw in Winnik and some other big bottom 6er.
Mueller, Winnik, and Rozsival and call it a day.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Mueller
Winnik-Talbot-Rinaldo

Coburn-Grossman
Timonen-Schenn
Meszaros-Rozsival

Bryzgalov
Leighton

Looks good to me. Although now that we have all the cap room, I see Homer kicking the tires one more time on Nash since his price will inevitably end up lower than Ryan's. Wouldnt be shocked if we ended up landing Nash by the end of the summer.

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07-04-2012, 11:50 PM
  #768
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Waking up to find Carle gone. This is going to be a happy, happy day.

Flyers had 5 top 4 D, all full UFA price, now they have 4, possibly 5 if Schenn plays better. Barring the string of non-stop injuries, the D is fine.

Having said that, there are multiple nightmare scenarios possible between injuries, Bryz and Leighton, Schenn development etc. Carle here at a ridiculous contract would not have alleviated any of those scenarios.

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Old
07-04-2012, 11:52 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would be fine if they did nothing more and upgrade the d at the deadline. That being said, I think there will be a trade. There is no way they are going into next season with that cap space. If they didn't have something bigger in mind, they probably would have just paid Carle.
The only thing Homer hates more than 2nd round picks is cap space.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:00 AM
  #770
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actually overpaying carle would have been like overpaying rollins and left deep holes in the team which actually homer is actually smarter than ruben and not overpaying one position and leave deep holes.

that would have hurt this team just like the phillies.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:51 AM
  #771
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I may be in the minority here, but I don't think it'd be the worst idea to try and get Semin in here. The guy is a shooter and he's got a rocket of a shot and a boat load of talent. We have a good leadership group here with Giroux, Hartnell, Briere, Timonen etc. and I think he may be able to fit in without becoming a "cancer" like some have labeled him. If we can't swing a reasonable trade for Ryan, I say go for Semin, and then grab a guy like roszival to play the bottom pairing.

Hartnell-Giroux-Semin
Schenn-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Sestito

Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Roszival-Meszaros
Lilja/Gustafsson/Gervais/Bourdon

Bryzgalov
Stupid

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:09 AM
  #772
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Thinking about it, I honestly think our defense will be solid moving forward. Coburn-Grossmann-Meszaros can hold it down for a little while but we actually have a couple of 22 year old kids who will hopefully make an impact in the NHL in the near future. Luke Schenn has the potential to be a very good top-4 shutdown/physical force and has already been leading the NHL in hits among defensemen. Acquiring him improves and solidifies the future of our defense pretty nicely. Anyone who doesn't like Luke Schenn likely feels that why 'cause he was on the Leafs and to be blunt - the Leafs SUCK. Ron Wilson is easily my least favourite coach of all time and I think he really sucks the confidence out of players over a full season. Hopefully a fresh start with his brother helps him take the next step in his development.

I think Marc-Andre Bourdon is going to be an NHL regular very soon. He's shown flashes of soid play and he was unreal in Junior, winning the top QMJHL Top Defenseman in '08. I still have high hopes that he's be a solid two-way top-6 defender or even a top-4 guy (reminds me of a 6'0" Meszaros). I think if he doesn't outright make the team as the #6 he should be in the AHL full-time and he should be developed for a year under Terry Murray (along with Gustafsson).

Gustafsson doesn't have many comparables in the past, but I truly think he can be a top-4 puck mover/TWD in the NHL. He's also shown flashes of solid play and he has a 0.75 PPG in the AHL and is only a -8 on several TERRIBLE Phantoms teams. Either let him make the NHL right out of training camp or develop him under Terry Murray for the season.

---

If we leave the defense as is with all our options in the #6 spot (unless we upgrade Meszaros for a #1) I think something has to give involving our forwards. We only have 8 under contract that I would be comfortable starting in October and an RFA who will likely be asking for a nice amount of money.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek (RFA)
Schenn - Briere - Simmonds
xxx - Couturier - Read
Wellwood - Talbot? - xxx
Rinaldo
Shelley

Either we need to make a trade or sign some plan B's while we wait on Shane Doan. Otherwise we'll be struggling. Of the remaining guys I'd take a look at:

Shane Doan (duh)
Alex Semin (only if cheap and @ low term )
Daniel Winnik (solid grinder, might want too much $$$)
Peter Mueller (top-9 forward, low-risk on a 1 year deal)
Kyle Wellwood (utility top-9 fwd)
Jason Arnott (4th line C)
Dominic Moore (4th line/PK C)
Gilbert Brule (low risk on 1 year)
Mike Knuble (lol)
Ruslan Fedotenko (lol?)
Daymond Langkow (lol?)

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07-05-2012, 01:10 AM
  #773
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Mueller, Winnik, and Rozsival and call it a day.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Briere-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-Mueller
Winnik-Talbot-Rinaldo

Coburn-Grossman
Timonen-Schenn
Meszaros-Rozsival

Bryzgalov
Leighton

Looks good to me. Although now that we have all the cap room, I see Homer kicking the tires one more time on Nash since his price will inevitably end up lower than Ryan's. Wouldnt be shocked if we ended up landing Nash by the end of the summer.
Replace Rinaldo by Wellwood and this is a pretty good line-up. Rinaldo could be the 13rd forward (Shelley isn't the 13rd, he's just there). I kinda doubt Holmgren won't make a big trade, though.

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:21 AM
  #774
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With the Mueller, Rozsival and Winnik idea:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Peter Mueller ($2.250m)
Daniel Winnik ($1.250m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Tom Sestito ($0.650m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Michal Rozsival ($3.750m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,896,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,303,056

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07-05-2012, 01:55 AM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think most reasonable people understand that it leaves a hole, but at the end of the day, the contract that Matt got simply wouldn't have been good cap management for a cap team like the Flyers. I'd rather have a tougher time in 2012-2013 than carry that cap hit for the next 6 years. That's all it comes down to.
Agreed completely. Even though I kind of expected Carle to be able to snag even more money after that Wideman deal, I'm glad it's not us paying him for the next six years.

Our d may lack some puck moving skills as it stands, but it's not terrible and a fix could perhaps be added later on in the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I caught that too. I've never seen such hysteria. It's really not fair to Parise. The man did absolutely nothing wrong. You cant expect someone to sign when he could have a better and happier life elsewhere (at home)


Seriously, they're saying he wasnt a good leader. Give me a break. If ever there was someone who led by example, it was Parise. One of the most likable players in the league for sure. The way he's being vilified is not fair at all.
There were rumours about Parise and Suter going to Minnesota quite a while back, it's not like they've kept it completely out of the blue that they'd test free agency, and also see if they could end up on the same team. There was a reason the Red Wings and the Penguins made sure they had cap space.

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