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v20: off-season '12| In: Lowry, Fields, Valanciunas, Ross...Out: J Johnson, Bayless

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Old
07-04-2012, 10:37 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TrainTracks View Post
You keep saying Nash is a hero in Canada, but I dont think you know what that means. He's as much of a hero as joey votto is. Sure we respect him, but we have no attachment to him. Hell brett lawrie is 10x more loved than Nash, just because he's canadian and plays on a canadian team.

You honestly dont think just making the playoffs would be a huge boost for the raptors? Atleast in terms of respectablity to attract other players. Not to mention what it would do for the fanbase.

It is obvious now that you really don't get just how big Nash is in Canada.

This became such a big deal because Nash is that loved in this country.

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07-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #77
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This is most likely his last contract, he can either attempt to go out with fighting for a championship, or he can rot away with the Raptors. Nash is already one of the most popular Canadian athletes, only thing that would really increase it is if he won a championship with Toronto, which we know wouldn't happen.

I can't believe there are some people that are upset with Nash going to the Lakers over the Raptors.
He could of put in his contract that he could ask for a trade after a year if he didnt like the way things were going. Im sorry I just have no respect for players who try to win championships in their twilight years by just joining the best team they can. You didnt see players doing that a couple decades ago. Damn primadonnas nowadays.

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07-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
It is obvious now that you really don't get just how big Nash is in Canada.

This became such a big deal because Nash is that loved in this country.
I agree. Nash is not in the same category as Votto or Lawrie(lol hero?).

Votto could be on his way there but he isn't there yet. Lawrie has just begun his journey and isn't in the same league as the other two at this point

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07-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
Steve Nash is already a hero in Canada.

And really for a franchise as devoid of any future stars as the Raptors what good would getting eliminated in the first round really do for this franchise.
this.

Ps huge raps btw

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07-04-2012, 10:41 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TrainTracks View Post
He could of put in his contract that he could ask for a trade after a year if he didnt like the way things were going. Im sorry I just have no respect for players who try to win championships in their twilight years by just joining the best team they can. You didnt see players doing that a couple decades ago. Damn primadonnas nowadays.
In the 90's? You sure did... Prior to that the players were basically slaves to the leagues.

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07-04-2012, 10:41 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
Dragic was 5 years and 50 million and a guaranteed starting job.

For a guy that has never been anything but a back-up that's a big risk.
That's about what we gave Calderon almost. 5 years $45 million. Calderon was a backup too.

Difference is Dragic has more playoff experience, is a better defender, has excelled in a starting role when he's had it, is the same age (26) and isn't as injury prone then when we signed Calderon to that deal.

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07-04-2012, 10:42 PM
  #82
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you guys are nuts if you dont think Nash's Fame in canada would up 10 fold if he played for the raptors. I'm sorry hes not that big of deal right now to canadians. Didnt he even refuse to play for canada in the olympics before?

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07-04-2012, 10:43 PM
  #83
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You know what's a bigger risk. Being saddled with Landry, I don't care what FAs think about T.O I pray that BC rescinds the offer.

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07-04-2012, 10:47 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TrainTracks View Post
you guys are nuts if you dont think Nash's Fame in canada would up 10 fold if he played for the raptors. I'm sorry hes not that big of deal right now to canadians. Didnt he even refuse to play for canada in the olympics before?
Nash is in the Order of Canada...

Maybe you don't follow much but he's a Canadian Sports legend and icon. He did retire from international play but he now is GM of Team Canada

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07-04-2012, 11:03 PM
  #85
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07-04-2012, 11:08 PM
  #86
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nash is a d@@K..poor little baby needs a ring,he didnt play canada when he was in his prime because he was too worried about his contract.
the NBA SUCKS,it has become a 2 tier league,frankly i hope the raps fold.

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07-04-2012, 11:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
Tony Parker/Ricky Rubio/JJ Barea
Mickael Pietrus/Thabo Sefolosha/Rudy Fernandez
Danilo Gallinari/Luol Deng/Andrei Kirilenko
Dirk Nowitzki/Andrea Bargnani/Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol/Serge Ibaka/Nene

Disagrees with you. There's more I'm leaving out too. I'd put that lineup out against any top team in the NBA today.
Ok so if Toronto is able to attract every good player that has ever came out of Europe or the rest of the world then they can compete. All I was saying is that the model of going only after European players likely won't ever bring a championship to Toronto.


Last edited by jbean: 07-04-2012 at 11:23 PM.
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07-04-2012, 11:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by reggietfc View Post
nash is a d@@K..poor little baby needs a ring,he didnt play canada when he was in his prime because he was too worried about his contract.
the NBA SUCKS,it has become a 2 tier league,frankly i hope the raps fold.
The only baby here is you.

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07-04-2012, 11:21 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TrainTracks View Post
you guys are nuts if you dont think Nash's Fame in canada would up 10 fold if he played for the raptors. I'm sorry hes not that big of deal right now to canadians. Didnt he even refuse to play for canada in the olympics before?
He retired in 2007 after giving like 15 years to the canadian basketball program. If he hadn't retired he wouldn't be in the NBA anymore. He wouldn't have been a 38 MVP (that 3rd one should have been his). He walked off crying at the 2000 olympics blaming himself for letting the country down. Nash is already fine in Canada. And most canadians would tell you they'd rather see him win a title then try and salvage the Raps to squeak into the playoffs

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07-04-2012, 11:24 PM
  #90
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I don't know why people are hating on Fields so bad? he was pretty good before the plague was healthy again then the whole Knicks team sucked again. I honistly think that Fields could be pretty good in Toronto given the proper minutes and the proper roll, I have no problem with the deal at all.

And for those complaining about the money that was offered to Fields well look around the league at some of the other signings it's not that bad really. Add the fact that it gives us more depth either him as a 6th man or starting and Ross off the bench, I don't see how adding Fields is a bad move for Toronto.

Anyone catch the Ross workout with the Raptors? Kid got some game, consistant shot from three and mid range, explodes to the rim, I knew he was a good player maybe never knew how good he really was. Not the popular pick with the more known Rivers and Lamb left on the board but like someone said this could be the Damon Stoudamire draft all over again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92pQIYhLo-k

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07-04-2012, 11:30 PM
  #91
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I don't know why people are hating on Fields so bad? he was pretty good before the plague was healthy again then the whole Knicks team sucked again. I honistly think that Fields could be pretty good in Toronto given the proper minutes and the proper roll, I have no problem with the deal at all.

And for those complaining about the money that was offered to Fields well look around the league at some of the other signings it's not that bad really. Add the fact that it gives us more depth either him as a 6th man or starting and Ross off the bench, I don't see how adding Fields is a bad move for Toronto.

Anyone catch the Ross workout with the Raptors? Kid got some game, consistant shot from three and mid range, explodes to the rim, I knew he was a good player maybe never knew how good he really was. Not the popular pick with the more known Rivers and Lamb left on the board but like someone said this could be the Damon Stoudamire draft all over again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92pQIYhLo-k
I'm pretty sure that video was posted in the last Raptors thread. Ross can make it rain. His weaknesses are his handles and 1st step apparently. But out of all SG's in this years draft he was ranked as one of the best pure shooters in the entire draft. I don't know why people are so down on Ross I think he's gonna be a beast in the league. His shooting stroke is a thing of beauty too.

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07-04-2012, 11:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
I'm pretty sure that video was posted in the last Raptors thread. Ross can make it rain. His weaknesses are his handles and 1st step apparently. But out of all SG's in this years draft he was ranked as one of the best pure shooters in the entire draft. I don't know why people are so down on Ross I think he's gonna be a beast in the league. His shooting stroke is a thing of beauty too.
Agreed, i'm not as down on this teams future as some. Valanciunas and Ross i'm VERY excited about, Acy could be an awesome bench player/team guy, I like Bargnani and I think DC could make some big strides, and DeRozan i'm a little iffy on but I think he has potential, I think this is a make or break year for him. I wanted Nash because I thought creating a winning environment would be a great start, but adding Dragic/Lowry was potential to be much better long term for this team.

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07-04-2012, 11:37 PM
  #93
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I'm resisting the urge to be selfish here about the whole Nash thing (I'm disappointed he's not a Rap but I now know which team I hope wins the Championship this year), and really look at the big picture for this organization and this is what I see:

Nash not signing here was a GOOD thing. Like some have mentioned, this team doesn't need to blow their wad luring a 38 year old to come and turn them into a flash in the pan for 2 or 3 years.

This team needs to SUCK, and suck bad. I'm not a tanker and I never will be a guy who thinks that a team should lose on purpose. But the only way the Raptors are going to become relevant and stable long term is to draft very talented players, and more than one of them. This team has had 3 major stars in its history. Stoudemire, Carter and Bosh... and all of them were lottery picks. The problem is they have come few and far between. This team needs multiple good players to build around, and needs to be bad in consecutive years or find a way to collect lottery picks. OKC is a great example. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden are the core of their team and all came through the draft. And now that they are relevant and have grown, veteran stars are at least entertaining the idea of signing there.

Building a successful franchise, and one that is important in the realm of the league takes a LONG time and is more important in the NBA then any other league. The raptors truly need to start from scratch, and I hope BC is the guy to do that, but it seems like right now he is the farthest thing from it.

Bargnani needs to be traded to a team for as many assets we can get, especially a first round pick and preferably a high one.

The model in the NBA has become all about star power and very good players. The Raptors are filled with Tier 2 players right now, with no star power in sight. Davis while still growing is pretty much cemented as having the ceiling of a complementary piece. DeRozan is also growing and getting better but he's certainly not a perennial all-star and looks like he'll be most effective with better talent around him. Valanciunas we hope can become Elite, but we won't know that until this and next year, and your guess is as good as mine with regards to Ross. Regardless we've got a young core right now built up of secondary and tertiary level talent, with a couple of hopefuls.

The fact is the Raptors are no where near close to being a contender, and being a 7th or 8th seed that gets blown out in 4 games by Miami, Boston or Chicago is not acceptable to fans of a major city like Toronto. This team needs to be built the right way and thats from the ground up. Band-aids like Landry Fields are not going to help. This team needs to think about acquiring ELITE level talent long-term, and not piecework together a fringe playoff team with second-tier quality.

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07-04-2012, 11:37 PM
  #94
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lol at anyone hating on Nash.

Like I said Toronto is not Vancouver.. what connection does he have to Toronto at all?

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07-04-2012, 11:38 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by reggietfc View Post
nash is a d@@K..poor little baby needs a ring,he didnt play canada when he was in his prime because he was too worried about his contract.
the NBA SUCKS,it has become a 2 tier league,frankly i hope the raps fold.
How can you blame the guy. He took less money to go to a contender, and most of all to be close to his children.

I won't even be mad at BC if it wasn't for the stupid offer sheet he extended to Landry Fields.

One thing I'll give credit to BC is the fact that he made bold moves and tried his hardest to get him here. Nash added would have added instant credibility to this franchise. This team has suffered immensely due to lack of focus. Not poor enough to grab a top 3 pick, and not good enough to make the playoffs. Casey might be a fine coach, but him being that good can go a long way into making us mediocre for a long time.

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07-04-2012, 11:41 PM
  #96
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lol at anyone hating on Nash.

Like I said Toronto is not Vancouver.. what connection does he have to Toronto at all?


Can we just stop talking about Nash? I get why it's still being brought up as it's fresh in everyones mind, fans of the Raptors feel spurned. We are allowed to vent. I doubt it's even about him personally anyways. Raptors fans are just tired of being mired in mediocrity and he was our first chance of getting a top Tier 1 FA. We have a right to be lil' bit pissed off for an evening.

With that said we need to move on and look at other options for the future. Calderon and Bayless aren't it.

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07-04-2012, 11:46 PM
  #97
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BC was a 2-time NBA EOY and drafted the pieces to build a title contender in Phoenix. There is no way he has been sucking this bad ON HIS OWN. He has sucked since 2008, but I feel like there's more than meets the eye with some of BC's decisions, and that this goes much deeper than to just the Raps front office.

I believe there has to be a serious examination by Rogers/Bell of MLSE's employees as soon as they seize control of the company, that is, if Rogers/Bell decide to prioritize the team's success first when discussing sports. There is no way in hell that they aren't responsible for some of these strange moves, especially the all out pursuit of Nash. Screams of a publicity move. Let's not forget Hedo Turkoglu (luring Turkish fans as well), Shawn Marion, and Jermaine O'Neal as part of an "all-in" push to make the playoffs just so MLSE can make a quick buck. It is clear: MLSE's current staff is pure evil from a sports standpoint.

I'm not trying to defend BC's moves, but I'm just trying to say that there may be more to them than just him. I will say this though: If the Raps do go hard after Lin, then my suspicions just may be confirmed.

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07-04-2012, 11:49 PM
  #98
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Building Blocks:
Derozan
Valanciunas
Davis
Ross
Acy

Valuable assets we can use to acquire building blocks (picks or young players)
Bargnani
Calderon
Bayless
J. Johnson (limited value)

Troublesome contracts
A. Johnson
Kleiza

Complementary players with internal value to the Raps
Gray
Magloire

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07-04-2012, 11:50 PM
  #99
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BC was a 2-time NBA EOY and drafted the pieces to build a title contender in Phoenix. There is no way he has been sucking this bad ON HIS OWN. He has sucked since 2008, but I feel like there's more than meets the eye with some of BC's decisions, and that this goes much deeper than to just the Raps front office.

I believe there has to be a serious examination by Rogers/Bell of MLSE's employees as soon as they seize control of the company. There is no way in hell that they aren't responsible for some of these strange moves, especially the all out pursuit of Nash. Screams of a publicity move. Same with Jeremy Lin. Let's not forget Hedo Turkoglu (luring Turkish fans as well), Shawn Marion, and Jermaine O'Neal as part of an "all-in" push to make the playoffs just so MLSE can make a quick buck.

I'm not trying to defend BC's moves, but I'm just trying to say that there may be more to them than just him.
I highly doubt it.

The Raptors are BC's and no one else's. I don't think MLSE is as actively involved with the Raptors as they are with the Leafs. Bryan Colangelo, like many GM's, enjoyed a successful stint with Phoenix but he lucked out with Steve Nash who was a man possessed after leaving Dallas.

And with regards to Turkoglu, I'd like to point out that Toronto is not as rich a Turkish community as many lead to believe. Yes, there are Turkish who live here but not nearly enough to shell out 50+ million for Hedo freaking Turkoglu. BC signed him to please Bosh, mainly because he wanted playmakers so they can run their offense through Bosh. Hedo was a good player for Orlando because he fit their system well. Didn't work out at all in Toronto.

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07-04-2012, 11:58 PM
  #100
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The fact of the matter seems to be that players of real genuine value don't want to play here. Star players don't want to play here. Toronto is an attractive destination for European players due to the cultural diversity which is fine, but this is a star driven league. Based on the way teams who win have been constructed, the trend seems to be this: you can win if your best player is European. I can't think of one successful team (or another team, period) whose top 2-3 players are European.

Something needs to change. There either needs to be a hard cap installed, or the Raptors have to re-locate to an attractive American city. There are two main reasons a sports team remains poor as long as the Raptors have been: either A) poor management (trades, drafting) or B) inability to attract high level free agents.

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