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Official Predators Off-Season 2012 Thread - Part II

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Old
07-04-2012, 07:52 PM
  #251
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
I believe I read that Trotz said that Josi will join Weber on the top now.
He said looking at the current options that Josi alongside Weber might be an option. He also acknowledged the need to get another D.

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07-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #252
Broom of the System
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Matt Carle closing in on a deal with the Tampa Bay Lightning. There goes that option.

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07-04-2012, 08:28 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
Matt Carle closing in on a deal with the Tampa Bay Lightning. There goes that option.
Did you really expect us to sign Carle? With Suter's deal done, Carle became the top target ...

Glad it rained ... now I can burn this Suter t-shirt without fear of the burn ban ...

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07-04-2012, 08:29 PM
  #254
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If it's over $5, I'm glad we lost out.

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07-04-2012, 08:33 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
If it's over $5, I'm glad we lost out.
North of $5M is what I'm seeing on twitter. Of course much of this is from the same guys who had Suter in Detroit and Parise in Pittsburgh ... got it wrong ... but somehow claim they were right; until they changed their minds.

Some of these "rumor" guys are funny ... it's all about "me me me" for them.

ETA: 6 years, $5.5M AAV for Carle


Last edited by Predsboro: 07-04-2012 at 08:51 PM.
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07-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Predsboro View Post
Did you really expect us to sign Carle? With Suter's deal done, Carle became the top target ...

Glad it rained ... now I can burn this Suter t-shirt without fear of the burn ban ...
Why is the thought of us signing Carle such a crazy idea? So what if he's the top target?

Would have really liked Carle, even at overpayment.

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07-04-2012, 09:25 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Why is the thought of us signing Carle such a crazy idea? So what if he's the top target?

Would have really liked Carle, even at overpayment.
We were apparently willing to pay Suter 12 million next year. Carle at 5.5 is a bargain compared to that. Carle is very Suter-esque, a downgrade yes, but plays a similar style at a high level. Oh well.

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07-04-2012, 09:34 PM
  #258
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Wow, a million more per year than Hamhuis?

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07-04-2012, 10:14 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Why is the thought of us signing Carle such a crazy idea? So what if he's the top target?
Everything ground to a stop until Suter's decision ... limited number of teams in on that (3-6 until yesterday) ... Carle waiting to see what Suter gets ... much larger number of teams after Carle.

Just saying odds were tougher after we put all our eggs in the Suter basket and Carle became the top target.

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07-04-2012, 10:20 PM
  #260
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Poile got hosed by Suter and frankly needs to be on a short lease at this point. I wish the ownership would ****ing wake up and see that he not the GM that is going to lead us to a Cup.

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07-04-2012, 10:48 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Poile got hosed by Suter and frankly needs to be on a short lease at this point. I wish the ownership would ****ing wake up and see that he not the GM that is going to lead us to a Cup.
If we lose Weber for nothing, then I'll agree with you.

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07-04-2012, 10:50 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
I believe I read that Trotz said that Josi will join Weber on the top now.
Well what can Trotz really say? He isn't the GM and isn't making the moves. He has to coach whatever is given to him. Right now he has Weber, Josi, Klein, Gill, Blum, Ellis, & Ekholm to work with. It's actually time for Ellis to get some TOI anyways and Blum needs another chance to prove himself. Also, hopefully Josi keeps up his awesomeness. But we do need a vet minute muncher on the top pairing. Hopefully JayBo is for us.

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07-05-2012, 06:20 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Predsboro View Post
ETA: 6 years, $5.5M AAV for Carle
About a 1 mil overpayment. Not too bad.

I'd rather have a slightly overpaid but solid defense corps than a bad d-corps that stays on budget.

I thought we were going to be a cap team, or close to it? Or was that only if the planets align and we sign several all-stars to budget deals?

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07-05-2012, 09:15 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post

I thought we were going to be a cap team, or close to it? Or was that only if the planets align and we sign several all-stars to budget deals?
Lol. That was another lie fed to us by Poile-just like how last years team would be paid more than the one prior.

We're now what, 23 million below the floor, including the Goose over payment?

I bet the best Poile can do is get Weber on a 1-year $10 million deal. Then we'll be right back here again in 12 months.

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07-05-2012, 10:20 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I bet the best Poile can do is get Weber on a 1-year $10 million deal. Then we'll be right back here again in 12 months.
And the same people will be defending him, as always. "He isn't the only player to leave via free agency." "He said he'd resign here".

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07-05-2012, 10:25 AM
  #266
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It sucks to lose Suter but it not the end of the world if we can keep Weber.

A few trades and we are just as good as last season.
Blum and a second rounder for Bouwmeester.

Ellis and a first for Duchene. ( I think this is fair)

Roster would be something like this:

FORWARDS
Colin Wilson ($2.500m) / Matt Duchene ($3.500m) / Craig Smith ($0.900m)
Sergei Kostitsyn ($3.000m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / Martin Erat ($4.500m)
Gabriel Bourque ($0.618m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($3.083m)
Nick Spaling ($1.050m) / Paul Gaustad ($3.250m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.713m)
Brandon Yip ($0.750m) / Brian McGrattan ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Shea Weber ($8.500m) / Roman Josi ($1.000m)
Kevin Klein ($1.350m) / Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m)
Hal Gill ($2.000m) / Mattias Ekholm ($1.025m)
Joonas Jarvinen ($0.718m) /
GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($7.000m)
Chris Mason ($1.250m)
BUYOUTS
J.P. Dumont ($1.333m) / Brett Lebda ($0.467m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,486,667; BONUSES: $410,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,713,333
http://capgeek.com/cap-calculator/roster.php?id=11253

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:32 AM
  #267
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So is Poile actually doing anything or what?

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07-05-2012, 10:35 AM
  #268
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Didn't Suter's agent even say the Predators have put out a "substantial" offer for Suter? How can you blame this on Poile?

I'm as pissed as the next guy but don't see how it's Poile's fault.

Although some of you whine no matter what happens.

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07-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #269
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Yep. I'm still pissed (just not half drunk this time)

I can't believe it. He went to Craig ****ing Liepold's team. The guy that initiated the mindset of "Preds won't pay talent", the guy that threw his team under the bus to go to a division rival, the guy that complains about the way owners are spending money and wants to reign in absurd contracts, for 98 million bucks. RS and ZP, that's 196 million. Yeah, Craig, let's be sure to be as hypocritical as possible.

Also, the thing that bugged me the most is a saw a quote from Parise mentioning how he and Suter had been talking about playing together all last season. That's funny, because right after the ASG I remember Suter saying they really don't talk very much and not about playing together because he's concentrating on a Predators cup run.

That just sticks in my craw.

(I don't know what that means, but by God it fits the situation.)

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07-05-2012, 10:57 AM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Didn't Suter's agent even say the Predators have put out a "substantial" offer for Suter? How can you blame this on Poile?

I'm as pissed as the next guy but don't see how it's Poile's fault.

Although some of you whine no matter what happens.
Agreed.

I would love to see/hear a completely unfiltered, factual timeline and statement by Poile. Lay it all on the table, so to speak.

Although I realize that would be somewhat uprofessional, I imagine some of the vitriol being sent his way would be lessened.

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07-05-2012, 11:09 AM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanPredFan View Post
It sucks to lose Suter but it not the end of the world if we can keep Weber.

A few trades and we are just as good as last season.
Blum and a second rounder for Bouwmeester.

Ellis and a first for Duchene. ( I think this is fair)
We would need Ellis++ for Duchene.


More reasonable targets would be Bobby Ryan, Ales Hemsky (blah), or some disgruntled forward somewhere (Rick Nash would be great, but he won't come here).

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07-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Didn't Suter's agent even say the Predators have put out a "substantial" offer for Suter? How can you blame this on Poile?

I'm as pissed as the next guy but don't see how it's Poile's fault.

Although some of you whine no matter what happens.
I don't blame Poile for Suter not re-signing here. I blame Poile for not getting value for Suter last offseason when Suter didn't re-sign. I know the argument is a cup run, but I argue that the haul for Suter would have been worth potentially losing our "cup run" this past year (and we saw how that worked out).

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07-05-2012, 11:44 AM
  #273
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I don't blame Poile for Suter not re-signing here. I blame Poile for not getting value for Suter last offseason when Suter didn't re-sign. I know the argument is a cup run, but I argue that the haul for Suter would have been worth potentially losing our "cup run" this past year (and we saw how that worked out).
+1

Depending on the haul for Suter, we could have easily been in as good of position for a cup run.

Suter's play post all-star was average at best in my eyes. Maybe I'm being unfair (which is entirely possible) though.

I just don't believe as a smaller market team (and we are) that you can afford to get nothing in return for those types of players. That is where Poile failed for me, because he waited and got nothing. It doesn't matter why he waited. It matters that we have zero to show for it.

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07-05-2012, 11:58 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by luckofirish8 View Post
+1

Depending on the haul for Suter, we could have easily been in as good of position for a cup run.

Suter's play post all-star was average at best in my eyes. Maybe I'm being unfair (which is entirely possible) though.

I just don't believe as a smaller market team (and we are) that you can afford to get nothing in return for those types of players. That is where Poile failed for me, because he waited and got nothing. It doesn't matter why he waited. It matters that we have zero to show for it.
While I don't disagree, a lot of fans of this 'small market team' seem to have some pretty unrealistic expectations for the type of talent this organization should be acquiring and retaining. We can't have it both ways. We can't criticize Poile for not being able to bring in key pieces, and yet also criticize him when he doesn't prematurely ship off the quality pieces we do have because they may not stick around. We took a risk, and we got burned on it, but the willingness to take that risk, for me, and also throw $ at a player like Parise, shows an evolution in the priorities of this organization that may be for the best in the long run.

Now, watch us have to trade Weber away and be back at square one.

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07-05-2012, 12:14 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
While I don't disagree, a lot of fans of this 'small market team' seem to have some pretty unrealistic expectations for the type of talent this organization should be acquiring and retaining. We can't have it both ways. We can't criticize Poile for not being able to bring in key pieces, and yet also criticize him when he doesn't prematurely ship off the quality pieces we do have because they may not stick around. We took a risk, and we got burned on it, but the willingness to take that risk, for me, and also throw $ at a player like Parise, shows an evolution in the priorities of this organization that may be for the best in the long run.

Now, watch us have to trade Weber away and be back at square one.
You -HAVE- to trade Weber away sadly. We won't be back to square one, but we will definitely be taking a step back. What we acquire from Weber trade would be enough to bring in a top tier talent that we could sign for a long-term deal. A lot of our issues stem from short-term deals well...ending before we want them to...which has served us pretty well in the past but also burned us here. You can definitely make a case Poile's contracts have been the reason for these issues. Will we trade Weber? I think so and hope so if he doesn't sign long-term then we know for sure he's bolting. We need to shore up our D and our O with whatever we can trade around and use prospects + picks. I think the issue is if we stick with Weber and he burns us also then we will be so far behind next year for free agency that it might be insurmountable.

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