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Could Plekanec be the one on the way out ?

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Old
07-05-2012, 08:19 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I'm a huge DD fan, but this is definitely true. Plekanec (or Gorges - I'm torn) is my favourite player on the team. I hate when people say DD is a product of his linemates because he's not. But he definitely had way better linemates so it was easier to produce than Plekanec.

I would have no problem putting Patches on the wing with Pleks and Bourque up with DD, if needed. Plus, I'd love to see what people say when Bourque scores a career high in goals on DD's wing ("Well of course DD had a good season, he had our two best wingers again!" ).

And I'd also like for people to stop complaining about Pleks production since he'd have two good wingers.
This should be said over and over again.

Stop feeding trolls who just want to trash a player over the other : it's either DD sucks Pleks is God or Pleks sucks and DD is God.

Well, it's neither, both are good not great and have their flaws. But Plekanec, because of his consistency and two-way play, has to be considered our no 1 center. If DD keeps getting better, like he can, there might be a change of the guard. But one thing is sure, we are lucky to have BOTH.

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07-05-2012, 08:55 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
In the last 60 games of the season, DD was almost a point a game player. So i really feel is going to have more points this year. the guy is still getting better. DD haters will be mistify, the guy has the heart of a lion, impeccable work ethic.
What makes you think I'm a DD hater? I actually love the guy. Is it that my realistic approach comes off as negative to you? The reality of the top two centres of this team is that they are both good, but not great. Plekanec nor Desharnais are superstars in the NHL. They are good hockey players, excellent guys to have in your lockeroom and both have a great work ethic on the ice. There's nothing more to it.

I understand you generally dislike Plekanec, but give the guy two good wingers that he can build chemistry with over the course of a season and you'll see things change quickly.

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07-05-2012, 09:26 AM
  #303
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I still don't understand how some people have Bourque next to Plek.
The guy cannot play versus tougher opposition! He simply can't.

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07-05-2012, 09:31 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I still don't understand how some people have Bourque next to Plek.
The guy cannot play versus tougher opposition! He simply can't.
I know, which is a large part of why I pen him in with DD-Cole against (ideally) lesser matchups - as was the case last year.

MaxPac-Pleks-Whoever (Gionta?) should be able to handle whatever comes their way.

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07-05-2012, 09:32 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
In the 42 games each played from Jan-April, Plekanec had 23 points to DD's 36 points. The "matching" of offensive production wasn't happening in the second half of the season.
You mean Plekanec had a better offensive output in the first half lf the season, when there was a coach who used him offensively, when he got to pkay with wingees who weren't useless?

You don't say....

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07-05-2012, 09:36 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I still don't understand how some people have Bourque next to Plek.
The guy cannot play versus tougher opposition! He simply can't.
I'm absolutely fine with;

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - Desharnais - Cole

Plus, I can't wait to hear the excuses of how DD sucks when Bourque scores a career high in goals.

I'd also get people off Pleks back as well - about damn time.

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07-05-2012, 09:42 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I'm absolutely fine with;

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - Desharnais - Cole

Plus, I can't wait to hear the excuses of how DD sucks when Bourque scores a career high in goals.

I'd also get people off Pleks back as well - about damn time.
Gionta is our best two way winger and Pacioretty isn't useless against top opposition like Bourque is. So Plekanec wins. And Desharnais wins, because he's still surrounded by the mythical big wingers and if he can get Bourque involved, he really would prove himself.

Glad to see Desharnais cheerleading that isn't also rabid Plekanec bashing.

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07-05-2012, 09:43 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
I'm absolutely fine with;

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - Desharnais - Cole

Plus, I can't wait to hear the excuses of how DD sucks when Bourque scores a career high in goals.

I'd also get people off Pleks back as well - about damn time.
You shouldn't waste much time talking to people that think DD sucks. He got favorable match ups but that's far from meaning he sucks. It's actually just good coaching.

I think Bourque could strive next to a pure playmaker like DD versus weaker opponents. "Could" might be a strong word, but I'm hoping for it.
The only thing I would change is Cole and MaxPax. The latter one has clear chemistry dating from the AHL days, so I'd keep him with DD, while putting Cole with Plek/Gio. I also think Cole would handle tougher opponents better, and it would give MaxPax another year versus weaker opponents which should translate into a strong season again.

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07-05-2012, 09:59 AM
  #309
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I personally believe if Eller was afforded the same luxury's as DD (Good linemates, weaker strength of opposition, more offensive zone starts) he would have eclipsed DD's production last year.

In the longterm plans, it's really DD that doesn't fit. Unless somehow we can find someone to replace Plekanec's 200+ PK minutes.

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07-05-2012, 10:03 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You shouldn't waste much time talking to people that think DD sucks. He got favorable match ups but that's far from meaning he sucks. It's actually just good coaching.

I think Bourque could strive next to a pure playmaker like DD versus weaker opponents. "Could" might be a strong word, but I'm hoping for it.
The only thing I would change is Cole and MaxPax. The latter one has clear chemistry dating from the AHL days, so I'd keep him with DD, while putting Cole with Plek/Gio. I also think Cole would handle tougher opponents better, and it would give MaxPax another year versus weaker opponents which should translate into a strong season again.
The only reservation I have concerns just how effective Cole would be on Plek's left, and how effective Bourque would be on DD's right. Swapping two guys to the opposite side from where they've been most effective recently (forgiving Bourque's short time in Montreal for the moment) is a bit risky just to further develop the even strength chemistry of Max-DD, imo. They can get their time together on powerplays, or something.

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07-05-2012, 10:05 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I personally believe if Eller was afforded the same luxury's as DD (Good linemates, weaker strength of opposition, more offensive zone starts) he would have eclipsed DD's production last year.

In the longterm plans, it's really DD that doesn't fit. Unless somehow we can find someone to replace Plekanec's 200+ PK minutes.
Eller may someday replace Plek's minutes, but most likely if Plek is still around to continue to mentor him.

Eller did take major steps forward last year, but he could only go so far ofensively considering how he was used.

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07-05-2012, 10:09 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I personally believe if Eller was afforded the same luxury's as DD (Good linemates, weaker strength of opposition, more offensive zone starts) he would have eclipsed DD's production last year.

In the longterm plans, it's really DD that doesn't fit. Unless somehow we can find someone to replace Plekanec's 200+ PK minutes.
You must be joking. Eller still had a hard time finding his way out of a paper bag for half the season.

If you take out his freak game his production is even more atrocious given his ice-time. He's a dime a dozen player who would have a hard time garnering 15 minutes of ice-time on a team who didn't trade a#1 fan favorite goalie for him.

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07-05-2012, 10:15 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
You must be joking. Eller still had a hard time finding his way out of a paper bag for half the season.

If you take out his freak game his production is even more atrocious given his ice-time. He's a dime a dozen player who would have a hard time garnering 15 minutes of ice-time on a team who didn't trade a#1 fan favorite goalie for him.
Ah yes, they were forced to play Eller because he was part of the trade for the all mighty Halak... I guess that's why Cunneyworth diminished his role and even scratched him?

My favourite is when people talk about the 4 goal game like it was a bad thing.

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07-05-2012, 10:16 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
You must be joking. Eller still had a hard time finding his way out of a paper bag for half the season.

If you take out his freak game his production is even more atrocious given his ice-time. He's a dime a dozen player who would have a hard time garnering 15 minutes of ice-time on a team who didn't trade a#1 fan favorite goalie for him.
Yes, because Eller was afforded the same luxuries as DD. I mean, he wasn't placed in a bad situation with constant position changes, no PP time, constant changing linemates, more defensive zone starts and a relatively strong strength of opposition....that never happened, right? lol

You have to place a player in a position to succeed if that's what you expect from him. Tell me how many second year players around the league scored 16 without hardly any PP time?

There has to be tons, because clearly Eller is a dime a dozen player, lol

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07-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Yes, because Eller was afforded the same luxuries as DD. I mean, he wasn't placed in a bad situation with constant position changes, no PP time, constant changing linemates, more defensive zone starts and a relatively strong strength of opposition....that never happened, right? lol

You have to place a player in a position to succeed if that's what you expect from him. Tell me how many second year players around the league scored 16 without hardly any PP time?

There has to be tons, because clearly Eller is a dime a dozen player, lol
He's a Daniel Winnik, but with a vagina. 3rd line center who doesn't merit pp-time because he's too slow to react and is softer than butter. Give me guys like Brodziak and Smith over him every day of the weak, at least they don't cry on the bench like Lars.

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07-05-2012, 10:40 AM
  #316
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Obvious troll is obvious.

Winnik scored a grand total of 8 goals last year.

Again, I ask you, how many players around the league scored 16 last year without much, if any, PP time. You said they were a dime a dozen.

So list them, all of them. There has to be hundreds, since like you said, Eller is a dime a dozen player.


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07-05-2012, 10:44 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The only reservation I have concerns just how effective Cole would be on Plek's left, and how effective Bourque would be on DD's right. Swapping two guys to the opposite side from where they've been most effective recently (forgiving Bourque's short time in Montreal for the moment) is a bit risky just to further develop the even strength chemistry of Max-DD, imo. They can get their time together on powerplays, or something.
Perhaps. I don't really mind who gets placed on Plekanec's wing so long that Bourque isn't there. I just figured I'd keep MaxPac with DD given their experience together.

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07-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I personally believe if Eller was afforded the same luxury's as DD (Good linemates, weaker strength of opposition, more offensive zone starts) he would have eclipsed DD's production last year.

In the longterm plans, it's really DD that doesn't fit. Unless somehow we can find someone to replace Plekanec's 200+ PK minutes.
You know there's a reason why DD was surrounded by our best wingers... and it's not to satisfy the so-called french media... it's because he was able to produce.

Eller is nowhere close to DD offensively, he has mad skills but his vision and hockey IQ is still developping... to say he would have "eclipsed" DD's production is like saying he would have had like 80pts... Eller is going to have a very hard time achieving 60pts in a season in his career.

I still believe in him because of his age and package, but don't short-change DD because you don't like him.

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07-05-2012, 10:56 AM
  #319
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Wait, because I think Eller would produce more if he was put in a position to succeed like DD, I don't like DD??

How does that work? lol

I love DD, he was one of the only pleasant parts of our roster last year.

Besides, by looking at it objectively, how is that short changing DD? He played great all year, but unlike Eller he had the luxury of stability, good linemates, better ice time, pp time, etc etc.

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07-05-2012, 11:00 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Obvious troll is obvious.

Winnik scored a grand total of 3 goals last year.

Again, I ask you, how many players around the league scored 16 last year without much, if any, PP time. You said they were a dime a dozen.

So list them, all of them. These has to be hundreds, since like you said, Eller is a dime a dozen player.
Couture, Eberle, Kessel, Neal, Ryan, Kane, Seguin, Toews, Callahan, Giroux, Simmonds, Marchand, Hall, Eriksson, Benn, Lucic, Hall, Kopitar, Staal, Read, Krejci, Kane, Okposo, Little, Landeskog, Stalberg, Statsny, Perron, Skinner, Jones, McGinn, Grabner, Karlsson, Oshie, Hodgson, Berglund, Seto, O'Reilly, Bozak, Hopkins, Voracek, Gagner, Wheeler, Stepan, Tlusty, Korpikoski, Greening, Kostitsyn, Sutter.

All comparitively aged guys who outscored Lars' inflated 16 goal total. Do I care if it's their 2nd season in the league or if they got ample pp time? Not at all, because if they broke into the league earlier and/or got pp time it was because they were good enough for it according to their coaching staff. Lars couldn't cut it.

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07-05-2012, 11:01 AM
  #321
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You know there's a reason why DD was surrounded by our best wingers... and it's not to satisfy the so-called french media... it's because he was able to produce.

Eller is nowhere close to DD offensively, he has mad skills but his vision and hockey IQ is still developping... to say he would have "eclipsed" DD's production is like saying he would have had like 80pts... Eller is going to have a very hard time achieving 60pts in a season in his career.

I still believe in him because of his age and package, but don't short-change DD because you don't like him.
Funny because you seem to be short changing Eller yourself.

Eller was never given two offensive wingers to center. He was tried in the top 6 as a winger and seemed completely out of whack, so that didn't last much. Otherwise he was given AK as a winger, versus weaker opposition, but they didn't benefit from being constantly given offensive zone starts. That duo was our best for the most part of the first half of the year. Then they were split up, and Eller was used mainly as a 3rd liner shutdown guy, sometimes even 4th liner.

I dont understand this constant need to undervalue one player when discussing who might be better (I know you didn't start it).

Both are good prospects for us, one was used more offensively but it's more because DD wouldn't do as well as Eller in a defensive role.

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07-05-2012, 11:04 AM
  #322
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You basically named a bunch of first liners that get a ton of PP time and favourable ice time.

You can't find comparable players to Eller, because most players that score 15+ get favourable ice time and aren't stuck toiling with the Gomez' of the world.

You say those others earned it, yet players like Gomez and Darche were getting PP time on our team. Because they clearly earned it, right?

You are ignoring all the variables, and that is a good way to come to a bad conclusion.

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07-05-2012, 11:14 AM
  #323
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Wow did i open a can of worms haha

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07-05-2012, 11:20 AM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I personally believe if Eller was afforded the same luxury's as DD (Good linemates, weaker strength of opposition, more offensive zone starts) he would have eclipsed DD's production last year.

In the longterm plans, it's really DD that doesn't fit. Unless somehow we can find someone to replace Plekanec's 200+ PK minutes.
The one thing I always love is how this always works against DD but it's never mentioned about Patches or Cole. Boggles my mind.

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07-05-2012, 11:25 AM
  #325
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He's a Daniel Winnik, but with a vagina. 3rd line center who doesn't merit pp-time because he's too slow to react and is softer than butter. Give me guys like Brodziak and Smith over him every day of the weak, at least they don't cry on the bench like Lars.


Thanks for the laugh.

Eller isn't soft at all.

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