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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): 2012 Regular Season (Utter-Lee Hopeless Part 2)

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:32 PM
  #26
FLYguy3911
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Pat Gillick wasn't here when the core was drafted. Ed Wade was -- though I think the current front office/scouting infrastructure has pretty much remained the same. Gillick just made some shrewd low risk/high reward additions to the core while also pulling the trigger on some horrendous trades (see: Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez for Freddy Garcia). That's how it goes.

The team can start to commit more to the draft and start rebuilding that way, but baseball isn't like the other three major sports. It'll be at least three years before you start seeing any returns from the rebuild-through-the-draft approach.

I'd share more of your optimism about keeping this group together and making a few tweaks for next year... if this group hadn't been slowly eroding in quality for three years now. You can point to last season's 102 wins, but that team, as it proved against the Cardinals, was overrated and fattened up on the bad teams while struggling against the top contenders and good starting pitchers.
Agreed. They need to try and regain some of the lost talent while they have the opportunity. This season is a wash. Our talented farm system has been wiped-out the last few years attempting to win a championship. Gose, D'Arnaud, Singleton, Cosart, Drabek, etc. all blue chippers.

They need to build depth in the system. Texas is a perfect example of building a franchise the right way. They are set up to compete for the next decade. They're cupboard is absolutely stacked.

They have to get younger. Rollins, Howard, Utley, Lee, Halladay, Ruiz- all on the wrong side of 30. They don't really have anyone entering their prime other than Pence and his contract is up next year. Dom Brown is an enigma. It's a recipe for disaster. Young guys also help lower your payroll allowing you to spend in other areas.

Polanco
Pierre
Victorino
Hamels
Blanton (yeah I know)

I'd trade them all if possible. Even if they just take a lottery ticket on a longshot. Hopefully Toronto stays in the hunt. They have a deep system.

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07-05-2012, 01:35 PM
  #27
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Hence the "at least" caveat. I was trying to be, how you say, optimistic.
I'm all for being optimistic, but the Phils would leave Babe Ruth in the minors until he was 25 to "get more seasoning" lol.

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07-05-2012, 01:44 PM
  #28
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I'm all for being optimistic, but the Phils would leave Babe Ruth in the minors until he was 25 to "get more seasoning" lol.
I think it depends on the situation, but they do tend to keep them down longer. Utley was 24 when he was called up, Howard was 25. I think Burrell was 23. Hamels, Rollins, and Galvis were 22. Dom Brown was 22.

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07-05-2012, 01:47 PM
  #29
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Utley, Howard, Burrell, and Brown were all blocked.

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07-05-2012, 02:16 PM
  #30
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I think it depends on the situation, but they do tend to keep them down longer. Utley was 24 when he was called up, Howard was 25. I think Burrell was 23. Hamels, Rollins, and Galvis were 22. Dom Brown was 22.
Yea, Burrell was 23 going on 24, and was an injury call up. Brown really hasn't been brought up yet, and Galvis was out of necessity.

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Utley, Howard, Burrell, and Brown were all blocked.
Burrell and Brown weren't blocked by anyone.

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07-05-2012, 02:48 PM
  #31
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Yea, Burrell was 23 going on 24, and was an injury call up. Brown really hasn't been brought up yet, and Galvis was out of necessity.



Burrell and Brown weren't blocked by anyone.
Brown was blocked by Werth. Couldn't play anywhere but right.

Burrell was only in the minors for a year and a half. Hardly seasoned. He didn't have a position. He was drafted as a third baseman. Moved to first. Phills aquired highly thought of (at the time) Travis Lee. Burrell had to learn how to play LF.

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07-05-2012, 03:21 PM
  #32
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Brown was blocked by Werth. Couldn't play anywhere but right.

Burrell was only in the minors for a year and a half. Hardly seasoned. He didn't have a position. He was drafted as a third baseman. Moved to first. Phills aquired highly thought of (at the time) Travis Lee. Burrell had to learn how to play LF.
Werth wasn't here last year, and he isn't here now. Burrell was brought up to play 1st before Lee was here because of injuries. He was moved to left after. I also think the Lee played left at first, but I'm not sure. Burrell wasn't in the minors long though, but he was drafted out of college.

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07-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #33
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Werth wasn't here last year, and he isn't here now. Burrell was brought up to play 1st before Lee was here because of injuries. He was moved to left after. I also think the Lee played left at first, but I'm not sure. Burrell wasn't in the minors long though, but he was drafted out of college.
Brown was tearing it up in 2010. He was ready at the time but Werth was still here. It wasn't until Victorino went on the DL (and Werth moved to CF) that Brown got the call. Victorino came back and Brown sat on the bench (bad idea). Last year, he broke his hamate bone (a known injury to sap power) missed the beginning of the season, struggled when he came back, and then they traded for Pence. Went down to AAA to learn how to play left.

This year he started off slow. Had a good week, and then got hurt again. Not looking good for him.

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07-05-2012, 03:57 PM
  #34
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Brown was tearing it up in 2010. He was ready at the time but Werth was still here. It wasn't until Victorino went on the DL (and Werth moved to CF) that Brown got the call. Victorino came back and Brown sat on the bench (bad idea). Last year, he broke his hamate bone (a known injury to sap power) missed the beginning of the season, struggled when he came back, and then they traded for Pence. Went down to AAA to learn how to play left.

This year he started off slow. Had a good week, and then got hurt again. Not looking good for him.
He actually only struggled in about 1/3 of his AB's. The other 2/3 he hit over .300. He got sent down after hitting .296 with a.398 OBP the previous month because they traded for Pence, and refused to sit Ibanez for any amount of time. This year before the season even started they said he was going to spend a full year in the minors even though they had no Left Fielder.

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07-05-2012, 04:36 PM
  #35
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He actually only struggled in about 1/3 of his AB's. The other 2/3 he hit over .300. He got sent down after hitting .296 with a.398 OBP the previous month because they traded for Pence, and refused to sit Ibanez for any amount of time. This year before the season even started they said he was going to spend a full year in the minors even though they had no Left Fielder.
This is what really pisses me off the most. They sent Dom back down just as he was starting to figure it out at the MLB level, as evidenced by his developing plate discipline. His defense sucks? Whatever, put him in LF and let him continue to contribute offensively. Choosing Ibanez over Brown out of loyalty to a veteran player was so ****ing myopic and stupid. Nearly inexcusable, really. It's not like Ibanez -- who was only useful every other month when he got hot at the dish -- was going to be a savior for the team anyway. It was beyond time to figure out if Brown could hack it in the majors.

The Phillies have thoroughly bungled the Dom Brown situation, and they deserve to be mercilessly ripped for it. The big guns in the front office have turned into a carbon copy of the Eagles, thinking they're smarter than everyone else and thumbing their nose at anyone who dare says otherwise. As this season is proving, they're not quite the geniuses they fancied themselves.

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07-05-2012, 05:03 PM
  #36
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Not a big baseball fan, but when I call my dad and he says hes sleeping to the majority of games more than not...not a great sign for Phil fans.

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07-05-2012, 05:26 PM
  #37
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CSN's reporting that Howard might make his return tomorrow for the Braves series. That'd be kind of friggin' awesome.

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07-05-2012, 05:31 PM
  #38
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CSN's reporting that Howard might make his return tomorrow for the Braves series. That'd be kind of friggin' awesome.
Saw that too, I just dont know. I dont want him coming back early and re injuring himself. But if the medical staff feels like he cant re hurt his achilles, I would be all for it. I just see this as a panic move.

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07-05-2012, 05:40 PM
  #39
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Saw that too, I just dont know. I dont want him coming back early and re injuring himself. But if the medical staff feels like he cant re hurt his achilles, I would be all for it. I just see this as a panic move.
Everything I've read says it has nothing to do with the injury and more to do with conditioning. I'm not worried about a re-injury, and I doubt they'd rush him and risk it. Especially considering the grueling process with Chase and Manuel holding him out tonight against his will.

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07-05-2012, 06:22 PM
  #40
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Dickie's been off so far tonight, hoping it's one of those nights where the knuckler doesn't have it and the Phillies can rock him. It'd be awesome to go into the break on a run.

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07-05-2012, 06:58 PM
  #41
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If Cole could ever cut down on the stupid pitches that usually get deposited into the stands, he could be the best pitcher in baseball.

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07-05-2012, 07:00 PM
  #42
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If Cole could ever cut down on the stupid pitches that usually get deposited into the stands, he could be the best pitcher in baseball.
He like...needs to let up a bomb every game. Every freakin' game.

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07-05-2012, 07:07 PM
  #43
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He like...needs to let up a bomb every game. Every freakin' game.
Pretty discouraging, and this rally has started by him letting the pitcher get a hit against him.

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07-05-2012, 07:40 PM
  #44
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its amazing how many home runs Hamels gives up

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07-05-2012, 07:44 PM
  #45
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its amazing how many home runs Hamels gives up
I know, through the first 5 months last year he only gave like 9. Then in September he gave up around 7 or 8. That is his one weakness.

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07-05-2012, 08:01 PM
  #46
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its amazing how many home runs Hamels gives up
Can you believe he only gave up 3 HR's in his minor league career!!!! That just goes to show how good big league hitters are.

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07-05-2012, 08:05 PM
  #47
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Can you believe he only gave up 3 HR's in his minor league career!!!! That just goes to show how good big league hitters are.
and how much of a home run hitters park CBP is.

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07-05-2012, 09:08 PM
  #48
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cool

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07-05-2012, 09:09 PM
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that's the season

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07-05-2012, 09:09 PM
  #50
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Lol that's not the season but man is it a heartbreaker.

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