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Could Plekanec be the one on the way out ?

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Old
07-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #351
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Couple that with the fact that Gomez was awful on the PP and received an inordinate amount of PP time, the hypothesis that those who 'produce' on the PP get most PP time is proven false.

Nice post, TTG.
So weber should be on PP and Subban no?

Stats aren't everything. I'm saying this and a lot of my degree is based on statistics. I just find the sample size with Eller is too small relative to Desharnais to make a proper comparison.

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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Last year on the powerplay.

Desharnais: .70 goals per 60 minutes, 3.96 points per 60 minutes
Eller: 2.31 goals per 60 minutes, 3.46 points per 60 minutes

Desharnais did not out produce Eller at a significant pace on the powerplay last year. Slightly more points per minute while Eller had much better goal scoring during his limited time.

Eller did produce on his limited PP time. Your argument is incorrect.


One the matter of Eller vs Desharnais. Desharnais is an offensive zone specialist with good playmaking skills. His utilization last year as a soft minute scorer was largely correct. Eller is a two-way forward with a monster puck possession game for one so young. He played hard minutes with limited support and got killed.

The problem is when people use points as a direct comparison of value. That is terrible analysis. One player had everything possible done to increase their points in usage terms while the other had just about as much as possible done in usage to suppress their scoring totals.

Thus we have a situation where two-players are probably largely equivalent in impact but one has twice the scoring totals as the other. Usage context is vital when comparing point totals.

Eller may not have Desharnais offensive skill and may have scored less in the same role. I'd suggest that by virtue of better defense and puck possession his plus minus would have been equal to better however. A player's impact is based on how he effects team goal differential, not just how many points he scores.
I don't understand, you just used improper context to support an argument that Eller produces more on the PP then say context is everything.

Check the stats if you want, Weber scored near equal PTS/PP TOI as Subban, including more G/PP TOI. Should Subban be on 2nd PP unit then? I mean, goals are more valuable than assists as you can get 2 assists but only 1 goal. So weber must be a better PP QB. I mean, not to mention, weber was misused all year, 4th line, scratched, 3rd pairing D. I mean, Martin failed and clearly weber is more offensively gifted on the PP and maybe in general.

Sounds weird doesn't it?

It may seem like I'm anti-Eller and while I don't see this 1st line upside many do, I really don't see the need to try and justify his inferior offensive production to desharnais. DD is an offensive player, I don't see why we're even comparing them to begin with as they don't even have the same role.

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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I honestly think that Eller would have been fantastic with 1st PP minutes.

Pro rated, if he had the same PP time as DD he would have had almost 10 goals, one less than Cole. Again, these are all hypothetical situations, but there's nothing that Eller showed that that leads me to believe he wouldn't benefit from being used properly.

If a 2nd year player can produce 16 goals on our 3rd/4th line, with little to no powerplay time, playing against a fairly high strength of opposition, surrounded by Scott Gomez, Darche and Engvist, imagine what he could do with proper wingers, better ice time and a little stability?
As I said above, pro rated and with more stability, odds are Weber outscores PK on the PP. I suppose since kaberle is a true PP QB and so is markov, then subban may be 4th or 5th man for the PP, but somehow that seems very wrong as it should.

You can't just assume certain things. For instance, in Pouliot's last year with us, he had the highest G/ES TOI on the entire team. I suppose we should've played him significantly more? There's a context to everything.

While I think we may see Eller increase his totals once again his year, I don't think he was ready for such a role last year and in his first year he probably should've been in minors, he was pretty raw offensively.

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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
N.B. One thing Eller would have to work on , and hopefully he is, is his faceoffs. He's not very good at it, at least not at a #1 center rate.

That being said, often he was playing against faceoff specialists, and his wingers didn't help out very much, since they were usually softer than a kraft single on a Florida sidewalk.
I thought he played against top offensive lines in a shutdown role? Now he played against faceoff specialists?

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07-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Couple that with the fact that Gomez was awful on the PP and received an inordinate amount of PP time, the hypothesis that those who 'produce' on the PP get most PP time is proven false.

Nice post, TTG.
The Gomez situation on the powerplay is interesting. Towards the Randypuck era the Habs became horrible at achieving and maintaining offensive zone time with the man advantage. Whatever his other faults, Gomez is a masterful puck carrier whose a good bet to gain the offensive zone. Plus he just came off a solid ~20 powerplay point season the previous year despite his even strength scoring woes.

Gomez ended up proving ineffective with the man-advantage though as his overall game rather than just his offense fell of a cliff over the course of last year (I think he was much better suited for Martin rather than Cunneyworth hockey). Into the garbage time portion of the season it probably would have been wiser to attempt to train Eller to perform the same role. Eller is after all, a solid puck carrier himself.

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07-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #353
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I'm not sure if he would have outproduced DD had he been given the same opportunity: DD was awesome last year. However, I'm with Dr Gonzo here in thinking that he's probably more suited to the role in the long term. That's not a knock against DD, btw. I think his best is yet to come, as he kept improving during the season. It's more a testament to what I think Eller can do.

I remember when Plekanec himself was "just a 3rd line center," and Pacioretty was "just a 3rd line winger."

...I also remember when DD would "never make the NHL."

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07-05-2012, 02:01 PM
  #354
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There's absolutely a context to everything. And the context to this story is that Eller had an insanely tough assignment for his age and experience, yet he still produced.

Whereas DD has a relatively easy assignment, one that was conducive to produce. That's what I pointed out through endless stats and objective observations.

I'm not guaranteeing Eller would have outproduced him ( I personally think he would have, or come close), but all signs point to Eller producing much more if he's not put in a borderline impossible situation like he was last year.

To get back to my point, longterm I think Eller is better suited to that position. DD did great last year, and no one can take that away from him, although if I am correct no one is trying to take that away from him, despite how defensive some Habs fans got when I mentioned his name (not you LL, but others).

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07-05-2012, 02:04 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I thought he played against top offensive lines in a shutdown role? Now he played against faceoff specialists?
Yes, because top lines don't have centers that are great at faceoffs. That and teams don't put a faceoff ace in the offensive zone, and then switch it up. No teams do that

Perhaps the word specialist is throwing you off, but I am using it to designate someone that is damn good at faceoffs, as first line centers usually are. (Again, not all)

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07-05-2012, 02:05 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
There's absolutely a context to everything. And the context to this story is that Eller had an insanely tough assignment for his age and experience, yet he still produced.

Whereas DD has a relatively easy assignment, one that was conducive to produce. That's the morale behind the story.

I'm not guaranteeing Eller would have outproduced him, but all signs point to Eller producing much more if he's not put in a borderline impossible situation like he was last year.

To get back to my point, longterm I think Eller is better suited to that position. DD did great last year, and no one can take that away from him, although if I am correct no one is trying to take that away from him, despite how defensive some Habs fans got when I mentioned his name (not you)
So are you suggesting Pacioretty isn't as good as we think? Considering he played with DD most of the time, did max get easy matchups too? Or are we going to reverse the story now?

Sorry to nitpick, but I don't see why people have this fascination with Eller. He's big, talented and has a good head on his shoulders, but the need to justify his lack of production when he's supposed to be still learning is kind of strange. If we discount Desharnais' production, we immediately discount Pacioretty's. Not to mention, Cole started producing with DD, so do we say he had a career year because he was against easy match ups?

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07-05-2012, 02:07 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
There's absolutely a context to everything. And the context to this story is that Eller had an insanely tough assignment for his age and experience, yet he still produced.

Whereas DD has a relatively easy assignment, one that was conducive to produce. That's the morale behind the story.

I'm not guaranteeing Eller would have outproduced him, but all signs point to Eller producing much more if he's not put in a borderline impossible situation like he was last year.

To get back to my point, longterm I think Eller is better suited to that position. DD did great last year, and no one can take that away from him, although if I am correct no one is trying to take that away from him, despite how defensive some Habs fans got when I mentioned his name (not you)
I think that's a very fair assessment.

I'd add that I don't doubt for a second that DD could over the course of the next 1-3 years make enough of a jump in his game as to make himself invaluable in a top-6 role on any team... I just lean more to Eller as being the better long-term fit -assuming both make the most of their potential.

If Gally is the real deal, and can play solid/effective top-6 minutes in 2-3 years, having a Gally-Eller-Pleks trio down the middle could be fantastic. All three play very good two-way hockey and can play in all situations, Gally/Eller having large enough frames to take up space and impose themselves physically.

but until Gally forces that issue, it's a bonus to have two young guys like DD & Eller who have the potential for significant growth in their games (and are already at great price/impact value).

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07-05-2012, 02:08 PM
  #358
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So are you suggesting Pacioretty isn't as good as we think?


That's a logical fallacy. Although I am sure you knew that when posting it.

Besides, we are discussing centers, not wingers, are we not?

Let's not delve into semantics any more than we already have.

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07-05-2012, 02:10 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Yes, because top lines don't have centers that are great at faceoffs. That and teams don't put a faceoff ace in the offensive zone, and then switch it up. No teams do that

Perhaps the word specialist is throwing you off, but I am using it to designate someone that is damn good at faceoffs, as first line centers usually are. (Again, not all)
I anticipated this response but by same token, Desharnais went up against faceoff specialists. Even if I pretend he went up against 13th forwards, why can't they be good on faceoffs? (See: Nokelainen). The fact is, faceoff ability is not the reason why a player would be a 1st line center or not and I found the addition of say "faceoff specialists" to be off. If eller's primary role is to face top offensive lines, they may or may not be good on faceoffs. It isn't his primary concern, so saying it as if it was one of his main focuses is just wrong. I mean how do you prove that anyway? Advanced stats maybe but I don't see how Plekanec, Desharnais or even Nokelainen had less gifted faceoff performers(as awkward as that sounds).

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07-05-2012, 02:10 PM
  #360
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but until Gally forces that issue, it's a bonus to have two young guys like DD & Eller who have the potential for significant growth in their games (and are already at great price/impact value).

Absolutely. It's a great situation to be in, considering the C position has been our weakness for almost 20 years now.

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07-05-2012, 02:11 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
So are you suggesting Pacioretty isn't as good as we think?


That's a logical fallacy. Although I am sure you knew that when posting it.

Besides, we are discussing centers, not wingers, are we not?

Let's not delve into semantics any more than we already have.
So I'll rephrase the question. If DD played against easy competition and pacioretty played with him, what level of competition did pacioretty face?

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07-05-2012, 02:12 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
The fact is, faceoff ability is not the reason why a player would be a 1st line center .
You are defending something that was never said.

Besides, statistically, DD is better than Eller on faceoffs, so...I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Eller does need to improve on his faceoffs though, as I pointed out earlier. Some stronger wingers than win the 'battle faceoffs' couldn't hurt though.

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07-05-2012, 02:14 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
So I'll rephrase the question. If DD played against easy competition and pacioretty played with him, what level of competition did pacioretty face?

Pacioretty was put into a position to succeed, and he did. That's not taking anything away from him, just as pointing out that DD had an easy strength of competition isn't taking anything away from DD. It's simply the truth.

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07-05-2012, 02:16 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
So are you suggesting Pacioretty isn't as good as we think? Considering he played with DD most of the time, did max get easy matchups too? Or are we going to reverse the story now?

Sorry to nitpick, but I don't see why people have this fascination with Eller. He's big, talented and has a good head on his shoulders, but the need to justify his lack of production when he's supposed to be still learning is kind of strange. If we discount Desharnais' production, we immediately discount Pacioretty's. Not to mention, Cole started producing with DD, so do we say he had a career year because he was against easy match ups?
it's not justifiying, it's understanding his productive impact. At his age (and his cap hit), his ES production is quite good relative to his minutes (and ignoring the revolving door of linemates, most of low top-9 ability, if not outright 4th liners)... about equal to what the Sedins could do, at the same age, and on a much better offensive team in the Canucks at that time.

I use the Sedin's comparison not to predict that he'll progress into a Hart/Art ross trophy winning MVP (though you never know), but to point out that if the criticism of him lies in his modest point-production, we have to consider how he's used.

Eller gets basically no PP time, and yet if you look at his career (both NHL & short AHL) productivity pn the pp (in terms of pts/min), he's showed every indication that he could be effective in that role as well.... it's a situation of the teams (now fired) coaches perception of how best to use him/manage the roster.

Unless we add a significant top-6 fwd before the season starts, he should be getting top-2 line fwd PP time... he showed himself not at all out of place playing from the wing at the world championships, I'm sure he'd adapt himself just fine in a role with Pleks/Gionta, probably complementing them better than Bourque would.


Eller, at his age/development stage, has shown every sign of having a greater, attainable, potential. In the meantime, he's giving us improving value at a very small cap hit (we'll see what his extension is, but I imagine something like Emelin's 2-year, 2M$ deal is in the cards.

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07-05-2012, 02:17 PM
  #365
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You are defending something that was never said.

Besides, statistically, DD is better than Eller on faceoffs, so...I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Eller does need to improve on his faceoffs though, as I pointed out earlier. Some stronger wingers than win the 'battle faceoffs' couldn't hurt though.
That being said, often he was playing against faceoff specialists, and his wingers didn't help out very much, since they were usually softer than a kraft single on a Florida sidewalk.

Perhaps I brought DD into it because of the context we're in, but I still find the argument strange as there is little to prove for it or against it.

BTW, I hope you don't consider me busting your balls. I enjoy a good discussion as much as anyone else. I respect your opinion but I kind of get annoyed by the general fallacy that we need to compare Eller and DD to begin with. I find them two completely different players with different sizes, ages and skillsets. It seems like a fallacy to even compare the two and in light of that, its nonsensical IMO when I hear Eller being compared to Desharnais' bread and butter(offense). If eller were as good as DD offensively and that good defensively, he'd be a 1st line center already.

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07-05-2012, 02:19 PM
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I'm comparing the situation they were put in, that is all.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, the only non-fact I put forth was my opinion that Eller would have done quite well if he was afforded the same luxuries as DD.

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07-05-2012, 02:21 PM
  #367
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So weber should be on PP and Subban no?

Stats aren't everything. I'm saying this and a lot of my degree is based on statistics. I just find the sample size with Eller is too small relative to Desharnais to make a proper comparison.

I don't understand, you just used improper context to support an argument that Eller produces more on the PP then say context is everything.

Check the stats if you want, Weber scored near equal PTS/PP TOI as Subban, including more G/PP TOI. Should Subban be on 2nd PP unit then? I mean, goals are more valuable than assists as you can get 2 assists but only 1 goal. So weber must be a better PP QB. I mean, not to mention, weber was misused all year, 4th line, scratched, 3rd pairing D. I mean, Martin failed and clearly weber is more offensively gifted on the PP and maybe in general.

Sounds weird doesn't it?

It may seem like I'm anti-Eller and while I don't see this 1st line upside many do, I really don't see the need to try and justify his inferior offensive production to desharnais. DD is an offensive player, I don't see why we're even comparing them to begin with as they don't even have the same role.



As I said above, pro rated and with more stability, odds are Weber outscores PK on the PP. I suppose since kaberle is a true PP QB and so is markov, then subban may be 4th or 5th man for the PP, but somehow that seems very wrong as it should.

You can't just assume certain things. For instance, in Pouliot's last year with us, he had the highest G/ES TOI on the entire team. I suppose we should've played him significantly more? There's a context to everything.

While I think we may see Eller increase his totals once again his year, I don't think he was ready for such a role last year and in his first year he probably should've been in minors, he was pretty raw offensively.
I wouldn't argue that Eller's stats indicate he's better than Desharnais at the power play. Way to small sample size. It was counter to the suggestion made that Eller got a shot at playing with the man advantage and did not produce. This was factually wrong and should have been addressed. Interpretations come after facts rather than before.

Subban versus Weber on the PP is another interesting question. Subban was tremendously effective in the shooter role his rookie season, leading the league in powerplay goals from a defenseman. However the team rate scoring when he was on the ice wasn't any better than Hamrlik. This season the powerplay as a whole wasn't very effective with Subban being below league average in both shots and goal rates. However he was better there than Diaz, Campoli and Weber, only Kaberle having the better season.

There's pretty good evidence Subban can part of an effective PP, especially in the point shot role. However he does not appear to be a major driver of play with the extra man, unlike how he's a force in even strength and penalty killing situations.


However, Weber has been decent both this year and the last as a PP scorer as well. 2010-11 the team had about the same goal scoring rate, much less shots and Weber had a lower scoring rate but not by a lot. 2011-12 Weber's personal rate was better than Subban while the team was less effective.

Just by the numbers there's little to pick between the two of them for the point shot role although on the basis of two years worth of information I'd probably pick Subban over Weber going forward. Not to mention, when I doubt take the more talented guy.

Decent chance Weber isn't even in the lineup which will make this point moot however.

The 2012-13 powerplay is going to turn around whether Markov is anything like his old self. He was arguable the best PP defenseman of his time even in comparison to an all-time great in Nick Lidstrom.

Kaberle is pretty good too if Markov falls off but no where near as special. Those two are going to be the drivers of play on the blueline with the man advantage, the other guy is just there to help.


Pouliot is another good context thing. He repeated basically the same results in Boston, where he's a very good scorer against weak opponents. He never seems to successfully move up the lineup though, which is a pretty good indication that his coaches never trust his defense. But I like Pouliot in his role here. The key was to manage expectations on him.


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 07-05-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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07-05-2012, 02:21 PM
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it's not justifiying, it's understanding his productive impact. At his age (and his cap hit), his ES production is quite good relative to his minutes (and ignoring the revolving door of linemates, most of low top-9 ability, if not outright 4th liners)... about equal to what the Sedins could do, at the same age, and on a much better offensive team in the Canucks at that time.

I use the Sedin's comparison not to predict that he'll progress into a Hart/Art ross trophy winning MVP (though you never know), but to point out that if the criticism of him lies in his modest point-production, we have to consider how he's used.

Eller gets basically no PP time, and yet if you look at his career (both NHL & short AHL) productivity pn the pp (in terms of pts/min), he's showed every indication that he could be effective in that role as well.... it's a situation of the teams (now fired) coaches perception of how best to use him/manage the roster.

Unless we add a significant top-6 fwd before the season starts, he should be getting top-2 line fwd PP time... he showed himself not at all out of place playing from the wing at the world championships, I'm sure he'd adapt himself just fine in a role with Pleks/Gionta, probably complementing them better than Bourque would.


Eller, at his age/development stage, has shown every sign of having a greater, attainable, potential. In the meantime, he's giving us improving value at a very small cap hit (we'll see what his extension is, but I imagine something like Emelin's 2-year, 2M$ deal is in the cards.
Again, I pointed out other fallacies with production per time on ice in weber and pouliot earlier. Given Eller plays less significantly on the PP, using the sample wouldn't be accurate as the sample space isn't large enough. Here's another, in his rookie year, I believe Blake Geoffrion had the highest GPG and PPG on the Nashville roster.

As for the rest, I absolutely agree. I do believe Eller learns more every year and SHOULD have an opportunity to display his skill on the PP. He's a great value player with good upside, and they should continue to increase his responsibility till he caps. As of now, he's improved every year and hopefully he continues to do so. I have no doubt in my mind he will.

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07-05-2012, 02:25 PM
  #369
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I wouldn't argue that Eller's stats indicate he's better than Desharnais at the power play. Way to small sample size. It was counter to the suggestion made that Eller got a shot at playing with the man advantage and did not produce. This was factually wrong and should have been addressed.

Subban versus Weber on the PP is another interesting question. Subban was tremendously effective in the shooter role his rookie season, leading the league in powerplay goals from a defenseman. However the team rate scoring when he was on the ice wasn't any better than Hamrlik. This season the powerplay as a whole wasn't very effective with Subban being below league average in both shots and goal rates. However he was better there than Diaz, Campoli and Weber, only Kaberle having the better season.

There's pretty good evidence Subban can part of an effective PP, especially in the point shot role. However he does not appear to be a major driver of play with the extra man, unlike how he's a force in even strength and penalty killing situations.


However, Weber has been decent both this year and the last as a PP scorer as well. 2010-11 the team had about the same goal scoring rate, much less shots and Weber had a lower scoring rate but not by a lot. 2011-12 Weber's personal rate was better than Subban while the team was less effective.

Just by the numbers there's little to pick between the two of them for the point shot role although on the basis of two years worth of information I'd probably pick Subban over Weber going forward. Not to mention, when I doubt take the more talented guy.

Decent chance Weber isn't even in the lineup which will make this point moot however.

The 2012-13 powerplay is going to turn around whether Markov is anything like his old self. He was arguable the best PP defenseman of his time even in comparison to an all-time great in Nick Lidstrom.

Kaberle is pretty good too if Markov falls off but no where near as special. Those two are going to be the drivers of play on the blueline with the man advantage, the other guy is just there to help.
Then we don't disagree. Given the option of Subban or weber you go with who you see as more offensively gifted. As do I with desharnais.

As for the defensive situation, I don't disagree. Subban isn't a true PP QB. Maybe with Markov/kaberle he'll put up more points but seems like he doesn't have the same vision those two have. Subban's speed and shot are huge parts of his offensive game and when he's stationary and/or passing in the offensive zone, he's less dynamic.

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07-05-2012, 02:35 PM
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In this Era of hockey all teams scout their competition a few games ahead of playing each other.So the teams are aware of players or lines that are playing well and they play the appropriate players against the opposition's best lines.Therefore usually the highest scoring line gets special treatment in faceoffs and in defence in general.So basically it's usually top line against top line or top line against top defensive line,depending upon which works best.Some lines there is no stopping them,then you hope that your team can outscore the other.(Philly vs.Pitts.in the playoffs)for example and Philly won even though Pittsburgh is a extremely high scoring team their defence is poor.

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07-05-2012, 02:44 PM
  #371
Talks to Goalposts
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So I'll rephrase the question. If DD played against easy competition and pacioretty played with him, what level of competition did pacioretty face?
Pretty easy competition basically. Somewhat harder than DD on average because he occasitionally moved up the lineup.

The encouraging thing is that Pacioretty murderized his opponents like few wingers in the NHL do. His was the best ES scoring year this team has seen in a long while.

We've also seen Pacioretty do well in tougher matchups before, albeit with an expected lower scoring rate. He played 1st/2nd comps in 2010-11 with Pleks and Gomez and came out significantly ahead, and basically did the same the rare times he lined up with Plekanec this season.

Which is why I'd perfer to see him on Plekanec's wing next year. He and Plekanec + Gionta or Cole is a first line that has a good chance of consistantly outplaying opposing first lines if they get a 1st pairing like Subban-Gorges behind them. Have that in the lineup and everyone else's jobs get easier.

Or he can shoot for 40 goals playing with Desharnais and Cole. There are scenarios where that's a winning strategy too.

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07-05-2012, 03:03 PM
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Then we don't disagree. Given the option of Subban or weber you go with who you see as more offensively gifted. As do I with desharnais.

As for the defensive situation, I don't disagree. Subban isn't a true PP QB. Maybe with Markov/kaberle he'll put up more points but seems like he doesn't have the same vision those two have. Subban's speed and shot are huge parts of his offensive game and when he's stationary and/or passing in the offensive zone, he's less dynamic.
Desharnais absolutely should be on the powerplay. I totally agree with that. Maybe not first unit because Plekanec is very good there as well but its a situation to which his skill set is well suited.

I think a problem with the PP earlier on in the year was that he didn't have the experience necessary to break down an opposing 1st unit penalty kill though. Habs playmaking all-round was pretty poor for the wealth of PP talent they had in the roster, which was where the lack of a QB was a factor. Special teams are usually a veteran's game.

However on even strength you can't just look at offense. Its a two way game. I thought the sacred cow line was a mis-allocations of resources becasue it meant only one unit was winning their matchup consistantly. It was different to start the year when MTL had a three line offense so they could afford two strong wingers against third comps. But for the second half we had one line inflate their scoring totals while the rest of the team died.

The only way it could have worked was if that line had far less goals against, which goes back to the point that DD's defensive/possession game on evens is weak compared to his offensive talents. Which is also a reason to doubt if he was a full-fledged all round top six center last season rather than an offensive zone specialist with a pair of 1st line wingers.

Hopefully he'll adapt to the NHL and improve on that though. He's a smart player and defense doesn't come naturally to a lot of offensively minded rookies. He got much better in that regard as the year went on, he didn't get pinned in his own zone as often at the end of the year as he did at the beginning.

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07-05-2012, 03:12 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Again, I pointed out other fallacies with production per time on ice in weber and pouliot earlier. Given Eller plays less significantly on the PP, using the sample wouldn't be accurate as the sample space isn't large enough. Here's another, in his rookie year, I believe Blake Geoffrion had the highest GPG and PPG on the Nashville roster.

As for the rest, I absolutely agree. I do believe Eller learns more every year and SHOULD have an opportunity to display his skill on the PP. He's a great value player with good upside, and they should continue to increase his responsibility till he caps. As of now, he's improved every year and hopefully he continues to do so. I have no doubt in my mind he will.
exactly... indications on him are all positive, including/especially the attitude/deamanor he shows away from the ice. He's serious about getting better.

Really hope that either Bourque finds his "best" game, or Bergie's able to add a decent offensively creative player to put on Eller's line. Armstrong, Moen or Prust give the 3rd line a nice dose of physical play and compete-level, adding a guy that can complement Eller a bit better offensively has got to be a focus.

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07-05-2012, 03:28 PM
  #374
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I think it's indisputable that over a three year period plekanec has been the team leader and MVP . He suffers from A disease called Sakukoivuitus . It happens when people look to you to exceed your capabilities because those around you come up short on theirs .

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07-05-2012, 04:07 PM
  #375
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exactly... indications on him are all positive, including/especially the attitude/deamanor he shows away from the ice. He's serious about getting better.

Really hope that either Bourque finds his "best" game, or Bergie's able to add a decent offensively creative player to put on Eller's line. Armstrong, Moen or Prust give the 3rd line a nice dose of physical play and compete-level, adding a guy that can complement Eller a bit better offensively has got to be a focus.
There was a time not that long ago when Armstrong was a really good depth ES scorer. Lets hope he can be that again so Eller has someone to pass to this year if they stay with the current lineup.

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