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Old
07-05-2012, 01:51 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Judrix View Post
well STall isn't a 3C, he was just in the weirdest of positions behind the two best players in the world.

No need to mindlessly bash Hawks players or fans now because of one poster's comments.
Fair enough, we will leave the two dimes for a quarter crowd out of it.

What can Hjalmarsson be had for realistically without giving up Gagner? (He is our only option at 2C at the moment)

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07-05-2012, 02:11 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SaskOil View Post
Fair enough, we will leave the two dimes for a quarter crowd out of it.

What can Hjalmarsson be had for realistically without giving up Gagner? (He is our only option at 2C at the moment)
Realistically, not much that Edmonton can offer. Especially since we don't need the cap space anymore (the only reason hammer was on the block).

The Hawk's needs are...(no order)

1) starting goaltender
2) 2C
3) top 4 Dman

The hawks are set with wingers for all of their lines and we have one of the deeper LW/RW prospect pools in the league.

Since most EDM proposals seem to involve some combo of Hemsky/Omark/MPS I doubt Hjalmarsson could be had for anything you'd want to give up.

Unless you traded us one of your better D prospects and even then, why trade proven talent for a prospect. Just don't know. I think the only trade between EDM and Chicago would be

Hjalmarsson + Kruger

For

Gagner +3rd or something like that. Honestly can't think of anything else that makes sense

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Old
07-05-2012, 02:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Neither of these guys are going to Edmonton, unless 1 of Yakupov, Hall, Eberle, or Nugent is coming the other way.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
And some might say Oiler fans overrate their players. You are out to lunch in a big, big way......

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Neither of these guys are going to Edmonton, unless 1 of Yakupov, Hall, Eberle, or Nugent is coming the other way.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
The new standard on HF. No matter what is being asked for 1 of the big 4.

I highly doubt an overpaid 3rd pairing dman gets 1 of the big 4.

I like Bolland but oilers have Horcoff, Belanger, Lander, Vande Velde to fill in as 3rd and 4th line centers


Last edited by Jamin: 07-05-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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07-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #55
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Wow, the crack dealer in your neighbourhood is definitely under charging. There is no chance you would ever get oone of those 4 for Bolland and HjaLmarsson.
And there's no way you are getting Bolland and Hammer for a bunch of mediocrity and Gagner.

It's not a good fit for either team unless EDM wants to deal one of the big 4.

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07-05-2012, 03:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
The new standard on HF. No matter what is being asked for 1 of the big 4.

I highly doubt an overpaid 3rd pairing dman gets 1 of the big 4.

I like Bolland but oilers have Horcoff, Belanger, Lander, Vande Veldea to fill in as 3rd and 4th line centers
Who are we talking about here?

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07-05-2012, 03:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
I agree that Bolland and Hjalmarsson aren't going to be traded for scraps.

But to say that they are worth one of the big four...
Again, that's not what was said. It has nothing to do with 'Worth'. We're not trying to construct a perfectly balanced trade here. The Hawks don't need to make this trade. There needs to be a major incentive to deal both Holland and Hammer. Unless you up the ante to one of the big four, which would be a terrible deal on your part, there's not enough incentive to move both of these players.

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07-05-2012, 03:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by H a w k s View Post
Who are we talking about here?
HjaLmarsson

http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/25/re...as-hjalmarsson

Main quote:

"Hjalmarsson was a top-four defenseman with the Blackhawks for much of the season, but saw himself moved largely to the third-pairing down the stretch and in the playoffs."


If when the games matter most he is getting less minutes thats a warning sign to me. Id take him on the oilers but if im giving up 1 of the big 4 im setting my sights higher

Edit: Here is another link analyzing him

http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/06/exam...almarsson.html

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Realistically, not much that Edmonton can offer. Especially since we don't need the cap space anymore (the only reason hammer was on the block).

The Hawk's needs are...(no order)

1) starting goaltender
2) 2C
3) top 4 Dman

The hawks are set with wingers for all of their lines and we have one of the deeper LW/RW prospect pools in the league.

Since most EDM proposals seem to involve some combo of Hemsky/Omark/MPS I doubt Hjalmarsson could be had for anything you'd want to give up.

Unless you traded us one of your better D prospects and even then, why trade proven talent for a prospect. Just don't know. I think the only trade between EDM and Chicago would be

Hjalmarsson + Kruger

For

Gagner +3rd or something like that. Honestly can't think of anything else that makes sense
Reading that then yes it's looking like Chicago and Edmonton really make bad trading partners.

Edmonton has wing depth and defensive prospect depth. Needs defence help.

Truthfully there's probably not a team in the league that needs to upgrade it's wing and has top 4 dman depth to accomplish it.

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
Again, that's not what was said. It has nothing to do with 'Worth'. We're not trying to construct a perfectly balanced trade here. The Hawks don't need to make this trade. There needs to be a major incentive to deal both Holland and Hammer. Unless you up the ante to one of the big four, which would be a terrible deal on your part, there's not enough incentive to move both of these players.
This.

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:21 PM
  #61
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I love how people call Bolland the best 3 rd line centre in the league( like Staal was in Pitt). What they are is good centers on a team with good centers . Don't under value these guys because of depth charts!!!

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07-05-2012, 03:29 PM
  #62
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Bolland and Hjalmarsson for Eberle, MPS and next years first rounder would benefit both teams.

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07-05-2012, 03:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
Okay Chicago fans, what would it take to acquire your #3C Bolland and Hjalmarsson from Edmonton.

so Edmonton would be acquiring a #3C and a #4 dman. Possible trade pieces from Edmonton could be Hemsky, Gagner, MPS, Omark, Plante, Gernat, Marcinin, Belanger, Khabibuilin, 2-7th round picks

What do you think Chicago would be interested in?
you could package all of those players and I would decline it.

Gotta give to get.



could talk about Hjalmarsson alone, but Bolland is not going anywhere. Hawks need to add Centers already and if Bolland goes your way, RNH has to come to the Hawks. You don't like it? We don't care and gladly keep Bolland. Not saying it's fair value but this is what it takes to get a guy like Bolly from Chicago.

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07-05-2012, 03:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Tebowz View Post
Bolland and Hjalmarsson for Eberle, MPS and next years first rounder would benefit both teams.
what is this I don't even

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07-05-2012, 03:52 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by H a w k s View Post
And there's no way you are getting Bolland and Hammer for a bunch of mediocrity and Gagner.

It's not a good fit for either team unless EDM wants to deal one of the big 4.
Edmonton has a ton of other great prospects as well as an attractive first round pick and some other good pieces on their roster that could be packaged to make this deal workable. Gagner has been discusses in relation to Chi for a long time now, so a deal that included him as a piece would make a lot of sense. He was Kanes Center in Junior and the Hawks badly need a second line center. I am not saying that I would go after these two players if I was Edm, because I wouldn't, but I do think theyhave the pieces to deal for those 2 and not touch their big 4 forwards

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07-05-2012, 03:53 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
HjaLmarsson

http://oilersnation.com/2012/6/25/re...as-hjalmarsson

Main quote:

"Hjalmarsson was a top-four defenseman with the Blackhawks for much of the season, but saw himself moved largely to the third-pairing down the stretch and in the playoffs."


If when the games matter most he is getting less minutes thats a warning sign to me. Id take him on the oilers but if im giving up 1 of the big 4 im setting my sights higher

Edit: Here is another link analyzing him

http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/06/exam...almarsson.html


That had nothing to do with Hammer, Oduya and Leddy, for a short period of time showed a lot of chemistry in moving the puck and then Oduya fell apart in the playoffs. Hammer is our #3. He's been on the second pair for years now, won a cup there too. He's an incredibly solid defensive dman who makes the smart, conservative plays, great on the boards, isn't afraid to play the body and only hits less due to a suspension. Most fans of playoff teams who meet the Hawks on a regular basis will tell you Bolland is one of the, if not the best, shut down centers in the league, regardless of the junk wingers he often plays with. These two players would greatly improve the Oilers defensive game. Bolland won't be moved though, Hammer was a possibility but after losing out on Suter he's not likely to go anywhere. Bowman has said repeatedly that Kane is our 2C even though some Hawk fans are in serious denial.

The only trade I could see happening is someone like Kruger/Frolik or Montador for next to nothing. Kruger has no offensive upside but has a very solid defensive game and would excel somewhere as the 3C, just not Chicago. He'd been slotted in 2C while Toews was out which was just dumb. Frolik has a solid defensive game too, but once again..no offense. Montador is a total gamble but when his brain wasn't mushy he played some really solid games for us.

What do the Hawks really need?

A backup or starting goalie who can compete with Crawford and a winger with hands who can provide serious net presence. Last year we didn't have anyone step up into that role other than Andrew Shaw.

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Old
07-05-2012, 03:55 PM
  #67
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Stan Bowman on Kane:

Quote:
"If you look back on the season, our team's best record coincided (with) when Patrick Kane was in the middle," Bowman said. "We built a pretty good lead in the standings, (and) then we struggled for a bit there and we moved him out of that position.

"And then … when Jonathan (Toews) got hurt, Patrick moved back into that spot and (he) carried our team the last month or five weeks of the season. So I think the notion that he can't play center has been dispelled.

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07-05-2012, 04:05 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by H a w k s View Post
It's not a good fit for either team unless EDM wants to deal one of the big 4.
This is the thread that keeps on giving.

I tell you what champ, dealing one of the big four for Bolland and Hjalmarsson ain't a good fit for the Oil.

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07-05-2012, 04:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
Edmonton has a ton of other great prospects as well as an attractive first round pick and some other good pieces on their roster that could be packaged to make this deal workable. Gagner has been discusses in relation to Chi for a long time now, so a deal that included him as a piece would make a lot of sense. He was Kanes Center in Junior and the Hawks badly need a second line center. I am not saying that I would go after these two players if I was Edm, because I wouldn't, but I do think theyhave the pieces to deal for those 2 and not touch their big 4 forwards
Hawks dont really need prospects. They have plenty forward prospects that are now at NHL level or very close. The Hawks really need a center in the truest sense to pair with Kane since Kane really plays a center's game offensively. They needs a guy who can play that role defensively, while also being physical and also win draws. That's why Staal was so appealing to a lot of Hawks fans.


Gagner doesn't really solve that as he's kinda light in the ass. They need the center version of Troy Brouwer.

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07-05-2012, 04:11 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Edmonton fans are easily the worst at valuing their players in the trade thread.

Completely ridiculous.
Nope, it's the fans of other teams who don't grasp that Gagner is 22 years old and Hemsky was just below a PPG player for multiple years.

That being said, we should just keep those two players if the trades we are being offered are as bad as the ones on this forum.

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07-05-2012, 04:15 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
Again, that's not what was said. It has nothing to do with 'Worth'. We're not trying to construct a perfectly balanced trade here. The Hawks don't need to make this trade. There needs to be a major incentive to deal both Holland and Hammer. Unless you up the ante to one of the big four, which would be a terrible deal on your part, there's not enough incentive to move both of these players.
How does it help the thread when people laugh at decent assets to say one of our kids is needed for a third line center and a mid range defenseman? just seems like greed/pissiness to me.

How bout, Chicago declines as these players are too valuable to you instead of demanding one of our top kids.

If you asked about Petry and Gagner and I came at you with "Not unless Kane or Toews is coming the other way, sorry to burst your bubble" I'm sure you'd think I was a donkey, and rightly so.

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07-05-2012, 04:16 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
This is the thread that keeps on giving.

I tell you what champ, dealing one of the big four for Bolland and Hjalmarsson ain't a good fit for the Oil.
Maybe not, but I'd be happy dealing either Hall or Yak for a serious defensive upgrade in the package of good defensive dman and a forward with a great defensive game. Maybe not Hammer and Bolland but you might want to look at New Jersey. You can have an instant upgrade in your weakest area and in the next few years most likely find a good winger through FA.

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07-05-2012, 07:07 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Neither of these guys are going to Edmonton, unless 1 of Yakupov, Hall, Eberle, or Nugent is coming the other way.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
Really? ....Really Really? Hjalmarsson is a soft bottom pairing defenseman with almost no offense, and Bolland doesnt excel at anything. He's not physical, average offense, less than 50% in FO%, and average defensively.

I know I know....obviously I have never watched them play. I guess neither has your coaching staff since neither of them are given the ice time to reflect these "elite" players.

Any time someone inquires about a player on a team its guaranteed that someone will say "one of Yakupov, RNH, Hall, or Eberle has to come back:"....get a grip on reality

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07-05-2012, 07:09 PM
  #74
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Maybe not, but I'd be happy dealing either Hall or Yak for a serious defensive upgrade in the package of good defensive dman and a forward with a great defensive game. Maybe not Hammer and Bolland but you might want to look at New Jersey. You can have an instant upgrade in your weakest area and in the next few years most likely find a good winger through FA.
Go take a boo at the New Jersey threads. They are a lot more reasonable with the values of their players than some of the posters in this thread are.

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Old
07-05-2012, 07:28 PM
  #75
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Gagner + MPS + Marincin + 2nd
Thank you for trying to clown the Oilers once again. You seem to do a great job at trolling almost every proposal for them.
BTW, your reply is not even close.

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