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Should Burke have waited to trade schenn?

View Poll Results: If we waited, would screen have fetched us more assets
Yes! Schenn would have gotten us a better package than JVR 11 7.14%
No, we would gave gotten the same or less 143 92.86%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-05-2012, 06:06 PM
  #101
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We've heard rumours for months about Philly offering JVR dating back to the trade deadline and trying to get Schenn out of Toronto and Burke resisted to make the trade previously.

Heck when Elliott Friedman suggested that Schenn might be traded as early as the entry draft, Burke shot back and wanted HNIC exercise some quality control content screening as Schenn was not being shopped Burke claimed loudly. The suddenly just like Friedman suggested Schenn was dealt at the draft for a player Burke could have had months earlier. Burke thought he was likely getting Justin Schultz and was creating a hole for him, then dealing Schenn for JVR and inserting free wallet Schultz into Schenn's former spot would have been a windfall move for the Leafs. That would explain the timing of the Schenn trade prior to UFA season as it was predicated on Schultz availability beforehand.
Yeah, because an injury wouldn't have anything to do with it, right?

Also, link about Schultz being behind the Schenn move?

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07-05-2012, 06:14 PM
  #102
johnny_rudeboy
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Parise has gotten 85-95 points and/or 40 goals in his career once in 7 years, 4 years ago. And did you seriously just compare points from a winger to points from a defenseman?

Parise falls out of top-10/20/30 lists all the time. Suter is consistently regarded as a top-5 defenceman in the league.

You are arguing against your own point.
I would not say he is arguing against him self at all. Parise have constantly been ranked in the top 5 among left wingers and in his last 4 seasons have on average been a PPG player. He adds leadership and a strong 2-way game above that.

Suter is a .5 player per game but adds a strong defensive game and leadership to.

One would think that more points would mean more value but a defender is valued higher then a winger so it takes the winger the double amount of points to become equal to the defender.


Last edited by johnny_rudeboy: 07-05-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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07-05-2012, 06:18 PM
  #103
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Every goalie traded in the past.

Hell, some (Bryzgalov) are given away on waivers because there is no market. Some (Elliot) come out of nowhere, are signed for free, and become the best statistical goaltender for the season.
Exactly, there really is no market for starting goaltenders seeing as once a team have one they want to hang on to him for as long as they possible can.
Backups and depth goalies get dealt all the time but that is a different thing.

Same with #1 defenders and 1st line centers. Once a team have one of those they don't trade them unless there is a fall out or there is no cash to pay him. But under those circumstances any one can be dealt.

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07-05-2012, 06:20 PM
  #104
iPunch
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Landing JVR for Schenn was a brilliant move, and has been generally applauded around the NHL. I think we did ok.

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07-05-2012, 06:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
One would think that more points would mean more value but a defender is valued higher then a winger so it takes the winger the double amount of points to become equal to the defender.


Are you serious? Comparing point production between defenders and forwards is the most pointless thing you can do, especially when the defender is more defensive. I am speechless that this is your argument.

They have different roles. That is like comparing goalies by point production.

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07-05-2012, 06:41 PM
  #106
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Are you serious? Comparing point production between defenders and forwards is the most pointless thing you can do, especially when the defender is more defensive. I am speechless that this is your argument.

They have different roles. That is like comparing goalies by point production.
What I am saying is that points is not everything seeing as defensive skills and ability to log big minutes are valued very high by the ones handing out contracts.

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07-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
What I am saying is that points is not everything seeing as defensive skills and ability to log big minutes are valued very high by the ones handing out contracts.
That wasn't what you were saying at all.

None of this implies that defensemen of equal talent are more valued. All it means is that forwards put up points primarily and defensemen defend primarily, so forwards are usually expected to have more points.

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07-05-2012, 07:05 PM
  #108
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That wasn't what you were saying at all.

None of this implies that defensemen of equal talent are more valued. All it means is that forwards put up points primarily and defensemen defend primarily, so forwards are usually expected to have more points.
That is exactly what I said, if you did not understand then maybe I did not explain it well enough.


Who can influence the out come the most in a game?

The 60 minutes goalie or

the 27 minutes defender or

the 22 minutes center or

the 18 minutes wingers

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07-05-2012, 07:19 PM
  #109
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We fully got the better player in a deal, and still some leaf fans so greedy lol. Wow

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07-05-2012, 07:22 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
That is exactly what I said, if you did not understand then maybe I did not explain it well enough.


Who can influence the out come the most in a game?

The 60 minutes goalie or

the 27 minutes defender or

the 22 minutes center or

the 18 minutes wingers
Depends entirely on the player.

The goalie has the most effect, but you also need less of them on a team, and are more situational, which brings down their value.

Also, I fail to see why you have the center playing 4 more minutes than the winger...

In fact, the forward with the great TOI/game last year was a winger.

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07-05-2012, 07:27 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Depends entirely on the player.

The goalie has the most effect, but you also need less of them on a team, and are more situational, which brings down their value.

Also, I fail to see why you have the center playing 4 more minutes than the winger...

In fact, the forward with the great TOI/game last year was a winger.
Let me guess, I change when I want to Kovalchuk?

Centers play more then wingers that is a fact. If it is as much as 4 minutes? Perhaps not but close to it anyway.

We are talking about value on players with different positions when their talent is equal or not equal. I say and will keep saying that if a defender and a winger are just as talented the defender is seen as more valued since he play more minutes and contribute more to the team.

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07-05-2012, 07:39 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Let me guess, I change when I want to Kovalchuk?

Centers play more then wingers that is a fact. If it is as much as 4 minutes? Perhaps not but close to it anyway.
Proof?

In top-10 TOI/game, 5 are wingers and 5 are centers, with the top 2 being wingers. Top-20 TOI/game, 10 are centers, 10 are wingers.

They are also very slight differences and nothing close to 4 minutes.

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07-05-2012, 07:52 PM
  #113
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Only time will tell on this trade. Both Schenn and JVR have huge potential. The Leafs had a glut of dmen and the Flyers forwards. Trade worked for both teams but time will tell. I hope it's even on both sides. Love Schenn when he was here and JVR because he is here.

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07-05-2012, 09:01 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by catgoldfish View Post
Only time will tell on this trade. Both Schenn and JVR have huge potential. The Leafs had a glut of dmen and the Flyers forwards. Trade worked for both teams but time will tell. I hope it's even on both sides. Love Schenn when he was here and JVR because he is here.
The leafs have a glut of forwards and so do the flyers.
And the leafs are not very strong on defence.
THe team is a scoring machine but not good at defence in general

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07-05-2012, 09:33 PM
  #115
ForzaZuffa
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Time will tell indeed. I think Schenn becomes the bigger impact player

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07-05-2012, 09:37 PM
  #116
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Time will tell indeed. I think Schenn becomes the bigger impact player
Not until he improves his skating, decision making and hockey sense.

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