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Free Agent Sit and Think Things Through Thoroughly (Matt Carle signed with Tampa Bay)

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Old
07-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #951
SeanCWombBroom
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Voracek = 49 points.
Ryan = 57 points.

Voracek is two years younger. Gus. Laughton is a decent pick and then adding a 1st?

Not sure I am in love with this offer. Still, the Flyers love Ryan. I doubt they would hesitate as much as I would. Ryan is a finisher while Voracek isn't (yet).

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07-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Judging by the poster I'll just add that grain of salt to my dinner.
Ill add the whole dang salt shaker, seems like too much imo. Take away that 1st, or Gus and im better. I really like Jake, but...

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07-05-2012, 06:49 PM
  #953
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I wouldnt be too choked up if that happened, but I'd rather hang onto Voracek. If we're giving up multiple first rounders (including Laughton), I think it would be too much value to lose.


What I would love to see is the reaction of Ducks fans who swore Ryan would not be traded for anything that didnt include a #2C

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07-05-2012, 07:03 PM
  #954
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This is the first time in a while this team could've added a big name through free agency and the best Homers done is add Fedotenko and Gervais........WTF Homer, really


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 07-05-2012 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Inappropriate
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07-05-2012, 07:54 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by epicBRYZ View Post
Ill add the whole dang salt shaker, seems like too much imo. Take away that 1st, or Gus and im better. I really like Jake, but...
Too much salt man. I'll shrivel up and die. Like a snail.

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07-05-2012, 08:20 PM
  #956
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This is the first time in a while this team could've added a big name through free agency and the best Homers done is add Fedotenko and Gervais........WTF Homer, really

What was he supposed to do? He offered Parise and Suter 100 million dollar 12 year contracts and they chose a different team, get over it.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 07-05-2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Correcting quote
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07-05-2012, 08:29 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by schroed3r View Post
From the other board:

Manayunk Mike:

Quote


#Flyers may have offered Voracek, Gustafsson, Laughton and a 1st rounder to #Ducks for Bobby Ryan. Looking into it. Wow
No thanks.

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07-05-2012, 08:29 PM
  #958
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Little worried about trading Laughton already. I feel like his best hockey is ahead of him and his value will be higher in the future. I guess this is kind of like trading Sbisa. You knew he was going to be good, but you got over it for the return (well at least before Prongs got hurt).

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07-05-2012, 08:48 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
No thanks.
Isn't this the guy who tweeted earlier that the Coyotes are trying to trade Doan's rights or something equally not possible/stupid?

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07-05-2012, 08:53 PM
  #960
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Isn't this the guy who tweeted earlier that the Coyotes are trying to trade Doan's rights or something equally not possible/stupid?
Hopefully its just a stupid rumor. Just like the Coots + Schenn + picks for Nash.

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07-05-2012, 09:02 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
What was he supposed to do? He offered Parise and Suter 100 million dollar 12 year contracts and they chose a different team, get over it.
He tried to bid up their prices, mainly Parise in case Pitt or NJ signed him. Problem is, Parise didn't go looking for the most money, and everyone and their mother knew Suter didn't want to play in the East.

He ended up handcuffing himself. Jagr got antsy and Homer couldn't do anything with him cause there was that 1% chance Parise, Suter, or both would come here. Meanwhile Carle festered on the open market while his price was being driven up. I thought Homer said he could get a below market deal done with Carle.

When you make an amateur move like Homer did, then you end up with garbage like Gervais, Fedotenko, and Syvret.

Yeah trying to drive up the price really worked wonders......
What a great off season. We improved by leaps and bounds!!!

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07-05-2012, 09:13 PM
  #962
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I've been around here for years reading the stuff posted, but do not actually post often. I'm seeing alot of people complain about not making the "big signing" this offseason. Isn't that what the flyers motto has been for years now? We have a great young core in place right now and finally (hopefully) the GM is not ready to tear it apart. Yes the defense needs work, but who says it can be fixed in one summer? We acquired schenn who I think will improve over his past seasons and many people forget how young this team is. The young forwards should only get better in their defensive zone coverage, add that to the signing of fedotenko and it can definitely make a difference. In my opinion, lavy may have to make a few subtle changes in his schemes as well.

With that said, let me say I am not against a trade at all. I would love to have bobby ryan on this team, I'd even take rick nash even tho is cap hit sucks. I just dont see why someone would want to trade voracek (who only had a few less points then ryan last year), plus gus, plus laughton, plus our 1st next year. Would Ryan be awesome with giroux? Absolutely! Scoring was not our issue though. You stick Voracek on a line with Giroux and Hartnell and I think thats awesome. I'd love to sign Doan this summer, as a last resort i'd like Semin for a year or two, but just cause we have the cap space doesnt mean we have to spend it. At the deadline when teams are desperate pick up an extra piece or two and build towards it. When Holmgren graded Richards and Carter I doubt it was a two year plan, no matter how impatient the Flyers organization may be. If we stay the course and add the right pieces without ripping the core apart, I think we can find ourselves in the finals again next year if the pieces fall right (injuries).

For the record this is my first real post here, my work tends to block me from signing in, but if it stays this way maybe i'll get to know some of you better. In the meantime go Flyers!

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07-05-2012, 09:16 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
He tried to bid up their prices, mainly Parise in case Pitt or NJ signed him. Problem is, Parise didn't go looking for the most money, and everyone and their mother knew Suter didn't want to play in the East.

He ended up handcuffing himself. Jagr got antsy and Homer couldn't do anything with him cause there was that 1% chance Parise, Suter, or both would come here. Meanwhile Carle festered on the open market while his price was being driven up. I thought Homer said he could get a below market deal done with Carle.

When you make an amateur move like Homer did, then you end up with garbage like Gervais, Fedotenko, and Syvret.

Yeah trying to drive up the price really worked wonders......
What a great off season. We improved by leaps and bounds!!!
If Carle was going to play for a home discount he would have. Clearly he wanted the money that he got on the open market. Jagr is an easy fix TBH. He's 41, plays two thirds of the season and scores 50+ points. Put almost anyone on our team with Giroux and they can score in bunches. No one said all of the moves have been completed but what your failing to realize is the natural progression of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, and Read should translate to increased production. Carle at 5.5 a year is just madness on this team, 5 would have been the absolute most that I would have been alright with.

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07-05-2012, 09:31 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
He tried to bid up their prices, mainly Parise in case Pitt or NJ signed him. Problem is, Parise didn't go looking for the most money, and everyone and their mother knew Suter didn't want to play in the East.

He ended up handcuffing himself. Jagr got antsy and Homer couldn't do anything with him cause there was that 1% chance Parise, Suter, or both would come here. Meanwhile Carle festered on the open market while his price was being driven up. I thought Homer said he could get a below market deal done with Carle.

When you make an amateur move like Homer did, then you end up with garbage like Gervais, Fedotenko, and Syvret.

Yeah trying to drive up the price really worked wonders......
What a great off season. We improved by leaps and bounds!!!
I'm usually rather negative according to some people here but wtf man, why over pay? Next year's free agent class had talent that better matches the dollars given out to these sub star players. Why pay a 6 mill a year play 8 mil when next year there will be multiple 8 mil a year players available.

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07-05-2012, 09:41 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
He tried to bid up their prices, mainly Parise in case Pitt or NJ signed him. Problem is, Parise didn't go looking for the most money, and everyone and their mother knew Suter didn't want to play in the East.

He ended up handcuffing himself. Jagr got antsy and Homer couldn't do anything with him cause there was that 1% chance Parise, Suter, or both would come here. Meanwhile Carle festered on the open market while his price was being driven up. I thought Homer said he could get a below market deal done with Carle.

When you make an amateur move like Homer did, then you end up with garbage like Gervais, Fedotenko, and Syvret.

Yeah trying to drive up the price really worked wonders......
What a great off season. We improved by leaps and bounds!!!
You can't be serious?! Homer only did that to drive up the prices?? You mean he really didn't want either one? And it wasn't Homers fault that Carle waited to sign, he got his shot at FA, he maxed it out and got paid. Was Homer supposed to send Tom Hagen in to make him an offer he couldn't refuse?!

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07-05-2012, 10:01 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by flyers0812 View Post
I've been around here for years reading the stuff posted, but do not actually post often. I'm seeing alot of people complain about not making the "big signing" this offseason. Isn't that what the flyers motto has been for years now? We have a great young core in place right now and finally (hopefully) the GM is not ready to tear it apart. Yes the defense needs work, but who says it can be fixed in one summer? We acquired schenn who I think will improve over his past seasons and many people forget how young this team is. The young forwards should only get better in their defensive zone coverage, add that to the signing of fedotenko and it can definitely make a difference. In my opinion, lavy may have to make a few subtle changes in his schemes as well.

With that said, let me say I am not against a trade at all. I would love to have bobby ryan on this team, I'd even take rick nash even tho is cap hit sucks. I just dont see why someone would want to trade voracek (who only had a few less points then ryan last year), plus gus, plus laughton, plus our 1st next year. Would Ryan be awesome with giroux? Absolutely! Scoring was not our issue though. You stick Voracek on a line with Giroux and Hartnell and I think thats awesome. I'd love to sign Doan this summer, as a last resort i'd like Semin for a year or two, but just cause we have the cap space doesnt mean we have to spend it. At the deadline when teams are desperate pick up an extra piece or two and build towards it. When Holmgren graded Richards and Carter I doubt it was a two year plan, no matter how impatient the Flyers organization may be. If we stay the course and add the right pieces without ripping the core apart, I think we can find ourselves in the finals again next year if the pieces fall right (injuries).

For the record this is my first real post here, my work tends to block me from signing in, but if it stays this way maybe i'll get to know some of you better. In the meantime go Flyers!
Run while you can!

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07-05-2012, 10:05 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by flyers0812 View Post
I've been around here for years reading the stuff posted, but do not actually post often. I'm seeing alot of people complain about not making the "big signing" this offseason. Isn't that what the flyers motto has been for years now? We have a great young core in place right now and finally (hopefully) the GM is not ready to tear it apart. Yes the defense needs work, but who says it can be fixed in one summer? We acquired schenn who I think will improve over his past seasons and many people forget how young this team is. The young forwards should only get better in their defensive zone coverage, add that to the signing of fedotenko and it can definitely make a difference. In my opinion, lavy may have to make a few subtle changes in his schemes as well.

With that said, let me say I am not against a trade at all. I would love to have bobby ryan on this team, I'd even take rick nash even tho is cap hit sucks. I just dont see why someone would want to trade voracek (who only had a few less points then ryan last year), plus gus, plus laughton, plus our 1st next year. Would Ryan be awesome with giroux? Absolutely! Scoring was not our issue though. You stick Voracek on a line with Giroux and Hartnell and I think thats awesome. I'd love to sign Doan this summer, as a last resort i'd like Semin for a year or two, but just cause we have the cap space doesnt mean we have to spend it. At the deadline when teams are desperate pick up an extra piece or two and build towards it. When Holmgren graded Richards and Carter I doubt it was a two year plan, no matter how impatient the Flyers organization may be. If we stay the course and add the right pieces without ripping the core apart, I think we can find ourselves in the finals again next year if the pieces fall right (injuries).

For the record this is my first real post here, my work tends to block me from signing in, but if it stays this way maybe i'll get to know some of you better. In the meantime go Flyers!
Good post. I don't think the flyers should be making trades. Keep this core together and add the extra pieces without giving much or anything up.

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07-05-2012, 10:07 PM
  #968
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haha I've read it long enough i know whats out there.

On another note, quick question?

Some people (me), would not do this trade because it involved Voracek. I have no problem with Laughton or our 1st involved. I read through some of the pages, but would people do this same offer (gus, laughton, 1st) if it included Simmonds or Read? I realize there is a difference in value between the two so I expect more people to agree with the Read offer, but it'd give everyone a better read (no pun inteaded) on the situation.

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07-05-2012, 10:30 PM
  #969
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No thanks.
Agreed, that's overpayment right there.

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07-05-2012, 11:33 PM
  #970
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haha I've read it long enough i know whats out there.

On another note, quick question?

Some people (me), would not do this trade because it involved Voracek. I have no problem with Laughton or our 1st involved. I read through some of the pages, but would people do this same offer (gus, laughton, 1st) if it included Simmonds or Read? I realize there is a difference in value between the two so I expect more people to agree with the Read offer, but it'd give everyone a better read (no pun inteaded) on the situation.
Well I don't think Anaheim would do it for Simmonds, and probably not for Read either. And the Flyers really shouldn't do the deal with Read. Read is incredibly valuable for a cap team like the Flyers; unless you think his season was a complete fluke, he's going to be a 20-goal guy making under $1M. Matt Read isn't a sexy prospect because of his age, but instead of knocking his ceiling/upside why not value him for what he is? And right now, he's a better finisher than Jake. Jake is a better passer, but so far both guys are ~50 point scorers. And one is probably about to be quadrupling the other's salary.

Personally I like the idea of adding Ryan. He's more of a power forward (though size-wise he's not really bigger than Jake), and I think it's important to add that element in case Hartnell walks. I'd do a deal around Jake for Ryan, but considering their ages, salaries (pending, in Jake's case), and the somewhat narrow gap in production I don't think I'd add a ton. Jake + Gus + in essence 2 1sts to me is too much. Jake+Laughton+2nd I do probably do. And that's fair considering a signed long term and cheap Jeff Carter fetched Jake+high first and was criticized pretty heavily as an overpay. Jake+Laugton+2nd or Jake+1st+2nd and we keep Laughton. Or good luck shopping a somewhat disgruntled Bobby Ryan elsewhere.

But Jake+Gus+Laughton+1st is at least better than the foolishness Howson is demanding for Nash. Seguin+? Skinner+? I wouldn't deal either of them straight up for Nash; Jackets would add. Significantly.

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07-06-2012, 12:17 AM
  #971
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I'd like Voracek on anything from a 2 to 4 year deal. Likely going to be $4mil+ per, using the recent David Perron contract as an example (and surprisingly Jake is probably more proven than Perron). I could see Jake getting $18mil over 4 years (AAV @ $4.5mil) and I'd probably be happy with it.

If Jake takes the 'next step and becomes a 60+ point player - which I think a lot people think he will become - then he can easily be our first line RW. I think the kid needs top line minutes to be successful but we won't have to use him in a 'relied-upon' role as we can comfortably be rolling 3 lines at even strength consistantly (Briere is a liability defensively still so he should get a lot of offensive zone starts - kinda like what Vancouver does with the Sedins).

---

I still think we need one more, strong two-way forward. I'm thinking Fedotenko pulls a Talbot and hits 25+pts and 10+ goals and I think Talbot repeats his success with 25+pts and 10+ goals again. Wellwood can easily do the same. We have a very solid bottom six especially if Couturier and Read are in it. I would like one more Winnik-esque player just to have a really good grinder line as our 4th line:

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek (should be a good line at both ends)
Schenn - Briere - Simmonds (good line, needs to get better in own zone)
Wellwood - Couturier - Read (love it, speed and skill. strong in own zone)
Winnik/UFA - Talbot - Fedotenko (grinder line at it's best)

Grossmann - Coburn
Timonen/Meszaros - Schenn
Timonen/Meszaros - #6
Gervais
Lilja

Give Coburn big minutes. Give Timonen big PP minutes. Grossmann, Schenn and Meszaros should do well eating up the rest. Several good possibilities for pairings on our defense. I like it.



Our entire season, however, is gonna be relying on Bryzgalov to have a bounce back year. Nothing unreal like his play in March but a solid 65+ game starter who can steal games every once in a while. Stats won't matter if he wins us some games without having to be bailed out by our offense every time. 2 goals or less most nights with the odd 3+ GA would be fantastic.
Voracek's production has been flat the past 3 seasons and his contract last year was 2.25mm. EJ just signed for 3.75mm. It depends on how many years into UFA Voracek is giving up, but he is not going to get over 4mm. Weber is still an RFA after 7 seasons, I think Voracek has at least a couple more.


Last edited by BillDineen: 07-06-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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07-06-2012, 12:18 AM
  #972
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Jake, Gus, and essentially two firsts? I like Ryan, but **** that ****.

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07-06-2012, 01:09 AM
  #973
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Curious, some people mentioned Nick Leddy... how much would it cost us?

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07-06-2012, 01:13 AM
  #974
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Curious, some people mentioned Nick Leddy... how much would it cost us?
I asked hawks fans earlier in the year and they wanted Giroux. He's not moving.

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07-06-2012, 01:34 AM
  #975
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I asked hawks fans earlier in the year and they wanted Giroux. He's not moving.
Are you sure he wasn't a Leafs fan?

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